RE: Most innacurate war movies

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Joe D. -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/4/2009 12:33:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader i saw PH a looong time ago and always thought if the movie was edited to include only war scenes, dropping all the romance crap it might be watchable. i don't even remember the movie anymore, but would it be a decent movie it it was edited as such? To make this flic "watchable," not only would they have to edit-out Afflec et al, but all the historical inaccuracies, as well as the gaffes and continuity errors; there is a very long page on IMDb describing all the inconsistencies of PH in painful detail.

hank -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/4/2009 5:24:15 PM)
I have to agree with you guys, Battle of the Bulge was bad. I wish there was a remake using todays technology and props to make it more accurate. ... and actually tell the real story of the 1st Pz Army's push through the Eisenborne area. I like Kelley's Hero too ... not saying its that accurate but I've always like it. What do you think of "A Bridge Too Far"? There's more Shermans in that movie than any I've seen. "Saving Pvt Ryan" was pretty good ... Marders, Tigers and such looked pretty good. ... not sure about the story but it was fun to watch.

Joe D. -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/4/2009 5:57:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joe D. How abt 1945's "A Walk in the Sun"? The cast had everyone, even Huntz Hall from "The Dead End Kids" aka "The Bowery Boys"? Courtesy IMDb A Walk in the Sun (1945) "In the 1943 invasion of Italy, one American platoon lands, digs in, then makes its way inland to attempt to take a fortified farmhouse, as tension and casualties mount. Unusually realistic picture of war as long quiet stretches of talk, punctuated by sharp, random bursts of violent action whose relevance to the big picture is often unknown to the soldiers." (Written by Rod Crawford) Does anyone agree w/"unusually realistic"? I recall one scence at the end of the film where the unit charged an occupied farmhouse w/their packs still on their back! The dialogue in Sun also sounded somewhat scripted, yet strangely compelling; I often compare it w/the dialogue in Saving Private Ryan. The most memorable scene was when they only used grenades to take-out a "German" half-track; throwing the grenades was so choreographed it reminded me of me of chorus line kicking their legs in sucession. I think that scene inspired a similar scene in Spielburg's SPR where the Rangers encounter and destroy a more realistic-looking German vehicle.

undercovergeek -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/4/2009 7:30:27 PM)
dont know how accurate it is but i always liked - when we were soldiers - unsure of the accuracy BTW if big mels in the cast!!!

US Brake -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 7:23:19 AM)
Pearl Harbor had a very innacurate love triangle.

SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 8:48:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: US Brake Pearl Harbor had a very innacurate love triangle. That movie gave a new meaning to the term 'Pearl Harbor bombed'. After 3 hours of watching Ben Affleck kissing a terrifically unattractive woman, even Americans wanted to bomb Pearl Harbor. Thank the gods there is a fast forward feature to save using up precious life energy.

cantona2 -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 9:56:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Doggie quote: ORIGINAL: IronDuke U571 was the worst. Ingenious American submariners steal Enigma, at one fell swoop writing British efforts (which included some fallen Sailors/real heroes if memory serves) right out of the war. Ha rumpf. We do so got a U boat. It's sitting up on blocks right off the Chicago Express way. I'd call the guys that boarded a sinking u-boat armed with scuttling charges real heroes. Where's your U boat? I didn't see any U boats tied up on ther Thames. Didn't see any battleships either. We got battle ships all over the place. That's because nobody sank them. I thought The Patriot was a realistic war movie. American farmers taking on mean old redcoats. That movie rocked. In Liverpool mate.

JudgeDredd -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 11:22:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: undercovergeek dont know how accurate it is but i always liked - when we were soldiers - unsure of the accuracy BTW if big mels in the cast!!! I liked that film very much except for the end sequence which did not keep with the book. Wehether either were fact, I don't know...but a good movie.

jacksy -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 3:19:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Culiacan Mexico “By innacurate it could be innaccurate props, or innaccurate story lines (unless the movie is intentionally about a fictional battle).” Gary Childress quote: ORIGINAL: IronDuke U571 was the worst. How so? U-571 is completely fictional. No such operation every happened during the war, so it doesn't seem to meet the criteria. "...S-33, being modified to resemble a U-Boat... when S-33 sails, Hirsch explains that the Allies intercepted the disabled U-571's SOS. They are going to masquerade as the resupply ship U-571 called for, board the ship, capture her enigma coding device and then scuttle the U-571." quote: ORIGINAL: IronDuke Ingenious American submariners steal Enigma, at one fell swoop writing British efforts... Actually Polish efforts. The only British naval action that even comes close to the premise of the movie would be this: "On 30 October 1942, U-559 was damaged by five British destroyers in the eastern Mediterranean. After the captain was killed and the crew abandoned the U-boat, a British boarding party from HMS Petard entered the submarine and recovered the signal key books. Then two British sailors drowned trying to remove the Enigma machine when U-559 quickly sunk. However, the recovery of the signal key books was important because the addition of the fourth rotor in the early months of 1942 had prevented the Allied codebreakers from reading messages to the German submarines. The key books from U-559 enabled the Allies codebreakers to understand how the fourth rotor on the Enigma machine worked and to start reading the messages to German submarines again." Please note: the fourth wheel was in itself not significant to winning the Battle of the Atlantic as the problem never was finding German U-Boat (Donitz was very happy to do that for the British). The problem was that the Germans were reading the British convoy codes, only once the British realized this and changed their codes did the dynamics of the battle change. "The B-Dienst, created in the early 1930s, had decrypted the most widely used code of the British Navy already by 1935. When the war broke out in 1939, the B-Dienst specialists had deciphered the British naval codes so well that the Germans new the positions of all British warships. They had further decryption successes in the early stages of the war; the British were slow at changing the codes. One important code the B-Dienst could read was the British and Allied Merchants Ships (BAMS) code, which proved valuable for U-Boat warfare. In February 1942, the B-Dienst cracked the code used for communication with many of the Atlantic convoys." Did you foget about HMS Bulldog? She captured U110 in 1941 including an Enigma machine, secret documents and keys

jacksy -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 3:21:14 PM)
For me it's any war film were Hollywood ignores,belittles or completely writes out the efforts of all the other allies.

GaryChildress -> RE: Most inaccurate war movies (6/5/2009 3:52:09 PM)
So that this thread doesn't get locked let's all stop belittling each others roles in WW2 or any other wars for that matter. The intent of the thread is simply to discuss inaccuracies we've seen in war movies (whether it be inaccurate props or storylines), not to point fingers at who fought a war better or worse or what not. God knows, being a bunch of die hard wargamers I figure most of us have spotted PLENTY of inaccuracies in movies we've watched. Let's leave politics out of this please. Thanks.

jacksy -> RE: Most inaccurate war movies (6/5/2009 4:12:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress So that this thread doesn't get locked let's all stop belittling each others roles in WW2 or any other wars for that matter. The intent of the thread is simply to discuss inaccuracies we've seen in war movies (whether it be inaccurate props or storylines), not to point fingers at who fought a war better or worse or what not. God knows, being a bunch of die hard wargamers I figure most of us have spotted PLENTY of inaccuracies in movies we've watched. Let's leave politics out of this please. Thanks. [:D] you could say where i was heading with that then!

Hanal -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 5:00:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vonRocko "Come on guys,give the Battle of the Bulge a break! Henry Fonda,Robert Shaw,Charles Bronson,all great actors. Yes it is innacurate,but it does give the general flow of the battle. From the initial confusion to the Germans fuel shortage.The movie is for the mass public who do not know the battle except for the name.Totally inacurate,but very entertaining." Being inaccurate does not necessarily mean bad and I have to agree with vonRocko...I was in my early teens when I saw the premier of Bulge in a wide screen movie theater and was enthralled by it...there was nothing like it at the time in terms of scale and the tank battles were exciting...what did seeing the Battle of the Bulge do for me back in the 60's ? Well it got me to read about WWII and I started buildng models and creating WWII dioramas. As a bonus from reading about many wars, I had an extensive knowledge of Geography which got me through many tedious classes at school and finally, I entered the world of board gaming through Avalon Hill and SPI....So, while you may site all of the innaccuracies you want regarding The Bulge, I'll always maintain that it is an entertaining movie.

Culiacan Mexico -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 5:10:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jacksy Did you foget about HMS Bulldog? She captured U110 in 1941 including an Enigma machine, secret documents and keys No, but it didn't seem to fit the criteria. The movie is a fiction account of stealing an enigma machine and dramatically changing the course of the Battle of the Atlantic. HMS Bulldog/U110 incident didn't seem to a make much of a difference.

GaryChildress -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 5:12:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: J P Falcon quote: ORIGINAL: vonRocko "Come on guys,give the Battle of the Bulge a break! Henry Fonda,Robert Shaw,Charles Bronson,all great actors. Yes it is innacurate,but it does give the general flow of the battle. From the initial confusion to the Germans fuel shortage.The movie is for the mass public who do not know the battle except for the name.Totally inacurate,but very entertaining." Being inaccurate does not necessarily mean bad and I have to agree with vonRocko...I was in my early teens when I saw the premier of Bulge in a wide screen movie theater and was enthralled by it...there was nothing like it at the time in terms of scale and the tank battles were exciting...what did seeing the Battle of the Bulge do for me back in the 60's ? Well it got me to read about WWII and I started buildng models and creating WWII dioramas. As a bonus from reading about many wars, I had an extensive knowledge of Geography which got me through many tedious classes at school and finally, I entered the world of board gaming through Avalon Hill and SPI....So, while you may site all of the innaccuracies you want regarding The Bulge, I'll always maintain that it is an entertaining movie. I agree, being inaccurate does not necessarily mean that a movie is not entertaining or doesn't have an effect upon us. The point, however, is that the movie was very inaccurate. Whether we like the movie or not it was, in fact, very inaccurate, which is the point of the thread. EDIT: BTW when I was younger I would try to catch Battle of the Bulge whenever it came on. I loved the movie and it inspired many table top battles, regardless of the inaccuracies. However, I do wish they had put more into making the movie accurate. I think I would indeed have enjoyed it a little more.

Culiacan Mexico -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 5:15:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jacksy For me it's any war film were Hollywood ignores,belittles or completely writes out the efforts of all the other allies. Hollywood doesn't care. They are in the interest of making money... if they could make a fortune showing that WW2 was won by the Hungarians... they would do that. Accuracy and honest are not core values in Movie making.

Culiacan Mexico -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 5:20:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress I agree, being inaccurate does not necessarily mean that a movie is not entertaining or doesn't have an effect upon us. The point, however, is that the movie was very inaccurate. Whether we like the movie or not it was, in fact, very inaccurate, which is the point of the thread. I don't like the Battle of the Bulge (Movie), U571, etc not because they may or may not be entertaining, but because the Writers/Directors/etc have a great opportunity to tell a story... on subjects with great depth... and then proceed to throw it away. They seem to be lazy.

GaryChildress -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 5:29:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Culiacan Mexico quote: ORIGINAL: Gary Childress I agree, being inaccurate does not necessarily mean that a movie is not entertaining or doesn't have an effect upon us. The point, however, is that the movie was very inaccurate. Whether we like the movie or not it was, in fact, very inaccurate, which is the point of the thread. I don't like the Battle of the Bulge (Movie), U571, etc not because they may or may not be entertaining, but because the Writers/Directors/etc have a great opportunity to tell a story... on subjects with great depth... and then proceed to throw it away. They seem to be lazy. I would have liked Battle of the Bulge MUCH better if it had put more effort into getting things right. It does spoil the movie for me somewhat when you see a bunch of compromises. But when I was younger I did find the movie entertaining nonetheless. In the same way I also find some B grade movies entertaining regardless of cheap props and such. But as I've grown older I definitely appreciate more those movie makers who make the extra effort to get things right.

sapper_astro -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 6:17:30 PM)
Unfortunately, the Battle of the Bulge was made to coincide with the Americans upgrading their tanks. The M48 (or was it the M60?) were replacing the Chaffee's as the standard US light tank, so the unlucky Chaf's became convenient victims for shooting up by the newer tanks on the scene. Witness the tank battle near the end and you will note that the Chaffee's are unmanned and just rolling down hills/sitting their doing nothing. Otherwise, without computers etc, they couldn't have created a tank battle that large.

Capt. Harlock -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 8:34:55 PM)
A strong contender for the most inaccurate war movie of all is the Errol Flynn version of "The Charge of the Light Brigade". The movie shows the charge as a deliberate but well-meaning disobedience of orders to create a feint and to get a Central Asian war criminal. (I forget whether Afghan or Indian.) In actuality, the charge resulted from a monumental SNAFU caused by unclear orders. A board of inquiry (quickly hushed up) reported in more polite words that the British command hadn't been fit to dig latrines. Although, the Earl of Cardigan, who led the charge, does appear to have had talent as a fashion designer -- the Cardigan sweater.

t001001001 -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 8:47:09 PM)
I didn't see Sahara as being any sort of historical ww2 movie, just a story w/ ww2 in the desert as a backdrop. I thought the story was quite good actually. The French character was cool: "Me and the nazi will take a walk, I'll come back in a few minutes." And when the tank 'surrendered' to the lone indian soldier they spotted at long range who was setting up to assault them (he couldn't identify the friendly tank from that range w/o optics), so they wouldn't have to shoot him [8D]

E -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/5/2009 11:01:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Culiacan Mexico quote: ORIGINAL: jacksy Did you foget about HMS Bulldog? She captured U110 in 1941 including an Enigma machine, secret documents and keys HMS Bulldog/U110 incident didn't seem to a make much of a difference. Did both of you forget about the Poles? grin quote: ORIGINAL: Culiacan Mexico I don't like the Battle of the Bulge (Movie), U571, etc not because they may or may not be entertaining, but because the Writers/Directors/etc have a great opportunity to tell a story... on subjects with great depth... and then proceed to throw it away. They seem to be lazy. You must remember their point of view. They weren't trying to tell a story (per se'). They were trying to make money. And I'd wager they succeeded very, very well in the case of the Battle of the Bulge. You/we call it lazy, they call it economics. You must also remember the time frame the movie was made. Accuracy in war movies was not the rage, to say the least. It was a different time. But more importantly, a different target audience.

Titanwarrior89 -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/6/2009 1:28:41 AM)
I watch for that if I ever see it again. Spent many ahour in those!! quote: ORIGINAL: gunny Oh here's a good one. El Alemaine when the British M113's dropped their ramps and the Tommies ran out A'la perfect 1980 mechanized assault syle dressed in their pot helmets with enfields and knee socks.

V22 Osprey -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/6/2009 5:08:08 AM)
Pearl Harbor and 300. Pearl Harbor:Too emotional for my taste.I want to see the battle, not a soap opera.[8\|] 300:TOO MUCH.Fighting scenes were badass, but it seemed everyone in the movie was deformed![X(]

Obsolete -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/6/2009 6:04:09 AM)
Every time I look at this thread I get depressed, because I know I am going to have to sit down and watch that Pearl Harbour with the gf soon. Grrrrr!!!! Unfortunately, I have no choice in the matter, so I'm just going to do the only thing I can do to get even, I"m going to cheer as loud as I possibly can when anything American get's sunk or destroyed. Then maybe she'll think twice next time before forcing me to sit in for a war/romance movie (yuk). I have Battle of the Bulge on my to-watch list, but at least it doesn't have that romance-love from what I hear, so I'm willing to give it a shot. Though I'm wincing already because I've seen the ending before. Anyhow, I forgot to add one more nominie. Dune! That whole spice thing was all innacurate, and the way the book portrayed the Harkonnens was much different than the movie.. and... Just kidding. Though I wonder if anyone would be interested in a similar thread on the worst War-Game, instead of movie.

Hanal -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/6/2009 12:24:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Obsolete Every time I look at this thread I get depressed, because I know I am going to have to sit down and watch that Pearl Harbour with the gf soon. Grrrrr!!!! Unfortunately, I have no choice in the matter, so I'm just going to do the only thing I can do to get even, I"m going to cheer as loud as I possibly can when anything American get's sunk or destroyed. Then maybe she'll think twice next time before forcing me to sit in for a war/romance movie (yuk). I have Battle of the Bulge on my to-watch list, but at least it doesn't have that romance-love from what I hear, so I'm willing to give it a shot. Though I'm wincing already because I've seen the ending before. Anyhow, I forgot to add one more nominie. Dune! That whole spice thing was all innacurate, and the way the book portrayed the Harkonnens was much different than the movie.. and... Just kidding. Though I wonder if anyone would be interested in a similar thread on the worst War-Game, instead of movie. When you watch Bulge, just remember you are not watching a documentary on the History channel because you'll definately not enjoy it if all you plan to do is pick it apart. As the dedication at the end of the movie states, events have been "generalized" and the action has been "synthesized" to convey the "essence" of the battle. Take it in the spirit as it was intended and you might be pleasantly surprised. Oh and if we wanted to start a thread on best military movie soundtrack, Benjamin Frankel's score for Bulge would be near the top of the list!

SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/6/2009 1:47:02 PM)
The thought of ever seeing that Battle of the Bulge movie again makes me go cold with fear. I just saw it for the first time last year when a nutter of a friend actually told me it was good and so I was conned into watching it. Apparently reading historical fiction and intellectual social theory books has kept him naive.

DivePac88 -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/6/2009 6:22:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Obsolete Every time I look at this thread I get depressed, because I know I am going to have to sit down and watch that Pearl Harbour with the gf soon. Grrrrr!!!! Unfortunately, I have no choice in the matter, so I'm just going to do the only thing I can do to get even, I"m going to cheer as loud as I possibly can when anything American get's sunk or destroyed. Then maybe she'll think twice next time before forcing me to sit in for a war/romance movie (yuk). Now listen here old chap, you have to make a stand here, there are bad movies, and there are just plain horrible movies. And that movie (that cannot be named) is in the latter category; it is the worst movie I’ve seen (ten minutes until I saw the Sprague class destroyers). It is so bad it makes Lucile Ball reruns look good, and it is bad for your soul to watch something like that. [;)]

Obsolete -> RE: Most innacurate war movies (6/6/2009 7:51:51 PM)
Christ... I'm getting a heart-attack here.

jeffk3510 -> RE: Most inaccurate war movies (6/15/2009 10:14:22 PM)
I know it has been said time and time again... but the one that sticks out in my mind above all is Pearl Harbor......too bad Josh Hartnett and Ben Affleck wern't around at Pearl Harbor....it would have been much worse for those Jap pilots had they been...

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