B-17s won't attack land targets (Full Version)

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apiazza42 -> B-17s won't attack land targets (6/16/2009 10:20:13 PM)

I've got two BGs of B-17s at Port Moresby set to attack Rabaul's airfield (I've tried attacking closer airfields too) and they just won't do it for some reason. I have plenty of supplies, an AF HQ unit there, plenty of support, and the range is set correctly. I thought maybe it had to do with fighter escort, but when I tried to attack Salamaua (3 hexes away) that didn't work either. Any suggestions or ideas?



TheTomDude -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/16/2009 11:11:41 PM)

I'm a jap player and I haven't played for a while so maybe this question is silly, but how big is your airfield at PM? Big enough for 4E bombers?



apiazza42 -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 12:59:28 AM)

Its a six right now going on seven. Its weird because they're all over naval targets when I order it but they don't like the airfields.



Feinder -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:03:03 AM)

Supplies are white, yes?

What's their morale?

-F-



apiazza42 -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:21:09 AM)

I've got three times the necessary supplies and one group's morale is 89 and the other's is 99. I've tried replacing the commanders with more aggressive ones and that hasn't worked either. I'm stumped.



Feinder -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:25:43 AM)

So am I.

What's the weather forecast?  You can get the weather forcast for the origin AF and target hex (since the boundaries are sometimes nebulous or just plain wrong), by pressing the "3" key.

-F-



apiazza42 -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:46:06 AM)

Partly cloudy.



jwilkerson -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:49:57 AM)

Are you playing stock or a mod? Ignoring of enemy fighter cover is based on a check against the durability of the aircraft - one of the internal ways of trying to differentiate a 4E bomber from a 2E bomber. So potentially a mod could miss the threshold. There are about 8 or so reasons I can think of - but I believe they have all been mentioned otherwise.






Jorm -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:51:18 AM)

do you have any fighter escorts ?
I seem to recall a similar problem where for what ever reason hvy bombers didnt fly unless i gave them an escort ?



Feinder -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:52:30 AM)

Time to break out...



[image]local://upfiles/7554/E533C9F75C884D3C86F2BA1A8FCFE97D.jpg[/image]



apiazza42 -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:55:06 AM)

I'm playing stock- v1.5



apiazza42 -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 1:56:43 AM)

Yes I agree Feinder...if only relieving commanders involved flogging........



apiazza42 -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 2:07:11 AM)

I've got some P-40s there and I also thought of the fighter escort problem so I tried assigning the bombers to attack a base only three hexes away since I'm sure the P-40s won't make it from PM to Rabaul but that didn't seem to take either. The fighter escort issue does seem to be tied into this however. As I mentioned before, the bombers have no problem attacking naval targets except when the ships are near Rabaul, which I'm sure is stacked with Zeroes. I'd really like for these B-17s to do what they are best at which is attacking large stationary targets. Why use these guys to bomb moving ships when I have Beauforts with torpedoes for that? Its driving me mad because I've always hated Rabaul and its stupid Bettys. Lousy simulated bomber pilots.



Yamato hugger -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 2:18:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: apiazza42

I'm playing stock- v1.5


1.5? [X(]



apiazza42 -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 2:25:03 AM)

Yeah I know I'm insane but when I tried to get 1.8 on my computer the game wouldn't boot so I reinstalled and started a game in 1.5 but now I'm worried that if I update I'll lose my game that I've put unhealthy amounts of time into.



Feinder -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 3:12:15 AM)

You can make a backup copy of your save game (pws file), anywhere on your computer.  Tuck a copy of it away somewhere first (just to be anal) then...

1.  Make a copy of your entire WitP folder (or whatever it's called).  Call it WitP2 or something.  Just put it right beside the existing WitP folder (directly under the Matrix Games folder).  This will create a 2nd backup of your game (as the Save folder will also be duplicated).
2.  Now run the upgrade vs. the WitP folder.
3.  Try firing up your upgraded version, with your game.
4.  If it dies horribly, kill the WitP folder, and rename the backup folder to be WitP.  Ta-da, you're back to v1.5.

That's actually sorta what I did for CHS.  I just made a copy of the WitP folder under Matrix Games.  Then installed CHS on top of the 2nd copy of the game (so I have a WitP folder, and a CHS folder under Matrix Games), and can run Classic WitP and CHS separately.

-F-



jwilkerson -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 4:10:37 AM)

Well I'm curious - so I'm looking at the code .... things that matter - sometimes - include:

01 supply
02 unit leader (air attribute)
03 hq leader (air attribute)
04 altitude
05 unit leader morale
06 base size
07 night
08 group morale
09 group experience
10 air field overloaded
11 cold zone
12 insufficient escorts for non-heavy bombers

But I definitely recommend using 1.8.0.6 ... virtually impossible for me to tell what was happening in 1.5.




gladiatt -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 7:31:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Time to break out...



[image]local://upfiles/7554/E533C9F75C884D3C86F2BA1A8FCFE97D.jpg[/image]


Uh Oh, Captain William Blyth flag.....

Although from time to time i'd like to use it against squadron leader not following orders [sm=00000643.gif]



CarnageINC -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 9:19:40 AM)

Yeap, definately go for the update.  I'm sure if you need help troubleshooting your system so you can get the game to boot, there is plenty of great support in the forums.  [;)]



John Lansford -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 12:25:43 PM)

I've got a similar problem with both B-17's and A-20's.  The B-17's have very low experience (<60) and won't attack anything.  They're at Kendari (airfield 6) with plenty of supply, and plenty of TF's to attack around Tawi Tawi and Macassar.  They occasionally bomb Macassar but that's it.

The A-20's make even less sense.  They've got 70+ experience, high morale, lots of supply at Eniwetok, but every time the AI runs a resupply convoy down to Kwajalein from Saipan my B-17's and B-25's do all the heavy lifting while the A-20's sit on the runway.  These resupply TF's have no fighter cover and hardly any escorts, but the 2E bombers won't go after them (except for the B-25's).



USSAmerica -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 2:02:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: apiazza42

I've got two BGs of B-17s at Port Moresby set to attack Rabaul's airfield (I've tried attacking closer airfields too) and they just won't do it for some reason. I have plenty of supplies, an AF HQ unit there, plenty of support, and the range is set correctly. I thought maybe it had to do with fighter escort, but when I tried to attack Salamaua (3 hexes away) that didn't work either. Any suggestions or ideas?


Here's one other thing to consider that I haven't seen mentioned yet. If you have airgroups at a base, say Port Moresby, that are assigned more than one land target, only one of the targets will ever have missions flown against it. For example, say you have B-17's targeting the airfield at Rabaul, and also at PM, you have B25's targeting the airfield, or port, or ground troops at Lae. Only one of those missions will fly. I can't tell you why, or which will be picked, but I know others have seen this issue and figured it out in the past. I'm only passing along what I've learned from them.

I believe the B-17's are successfully launching Naval Attacks, even if there are other airgroups at their base flying against enemy bases, because of the order in which missions are attempted and resolved. That may just be a wild ass guess on my part, but it is based on my observations.

There may be something discussing this in the Must Read Threads list. It's been a while, and I think I'm going to have to browse through them again soon. VERY good reading there. [:)]



USSAmerica -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 2:05:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've got a similar problem with both B-17's and A-20's.  The B-17's have very low experience (<60) and won't attack anything.  They're at Kendari (airfield 6) with plenty of supply, and plenty of TF's to attack around Tawi Tawi and Macassar.  They occasionally bomb Macassar but that's it.

The A-20's make even less sense.  They've got 70+ experience, high morale, lots of supply at Eniwetok, but every time the AI runs a resupply convoy down to Kwajalein from Saipan my B-17's and B-25's do all the heavy lifting while the A-20's sit on the runway.  These resupply TF's have no fighter cover and hardly any escorts, but the 2E bombers won't go after them (except for the B-25's).


John, from what I've read and seen, launching Naval Attacks or not is almost always about the detection level of the enemy TF. Make sure you have Naval Search aircraft at Eniwetok, and also try setting 10 - 20% of your A-20's to Naval Search. That last part can make quite a difference. It's like the airgroup skipper's trust sighting reports from their own boys much more than from other airgroups based at the same airfield, and waaaaaaaay more than sighting reports from airgroups based at other airfields.



John Lansford -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 3:06:32 PM)

USS America,  at Eniwetok I've got two naval search plane squadrons (Catalinas), B-17's on naval search (10% of three squadrons' worth), subs reporting the enemy TF locations, as well as other bases running naval search missions too.  I've moved the A-20's to Ponape since they were so useless at Eniwetok.  Ponape has a squadron of Catalinas on naval search and some B-25's with 10% search too.  Their air search radii overlaps Eniwetok's and the Mitchells have attacked some TF's from Truk but the A-20's still won't fly.  They will attack ground targets though; I will put them on 10% naval search and see if that helps.



Feinder -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 3:25:32 PM)

A stupid brain fart.

Is there actually a AF/Port (whatever your target is), at Salamau.

Before you say, "Duh, yes!"

I had set planes to attack the AF at Jaluit for week (of no attacks), before I noticed the base at Jaluit is actually a PORT, and the airfield is only AF(0), so the planes were never attacking.

Just a quick gotcha, that might not be relevant.
-F-



John Lansford -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 4:24:54 PM)

Does that mean if you set planes to attack a base that is not garrisoned, they won't fly to attack it?  IOW, if there's no base units or anything else there and you order your planes to attack the port, will they fly?  Assuming that the port/airbase has a rating >0.



USSAmerica -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 4:47:58 PM)

No, I think Feinder meant that if a base has a port (size >0) and no airfield (size 0), any aircraft set to attack the airfield won't fly, but if you set them to attack the port they will fly, regardless of LCU'S being present or not. I've had attacks fly against a port or airfield with no LCU present at the target.



Chris21wen -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 4:54:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Does that mean if you set planes to attack a base that is not garrisoned, they won't fly to attack it?  IOW, if there's no base units or anything else there and you order your planes to attack the port, will they fly?  Assuming that the port/airbase has a rating >0.


The game got something right here you cannot attack something that's not there. No LCU, no ground attack. Nor will they attack any level 0 port or A/F.



Chris21wen -> RE: B-17s won't attack land targets (6/17/2009 4:59:48 PM)

I had a similar problem as Japan. My LBs would not bomb a particular hex just NW of Bangkok. Any other hex in the area fine, but not this one. More than a tadge frustating when the allies had hords of LCU sitting there for about 2 months.



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