France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (Full Version)

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Chopain -> France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/5/2009 5:08:18 AM)

Game ended in 1810. I played on hard. All ai opponents had 100%+ score. I had a 71% score. I played as France.

I controlled all minors except two between the east side of russia and Turkey. Sweeden, Norway, and Finland. Malta, Sardina, Cofu, and Rhodes in the Mediteraian area. Dalmitia, Syria, Palistine, and Eygpt in the east. Everything else I own.

Free states: 2 in Africa. Denmark, Holland, Confed of the Rhine, and Georgia.

Core provinces I took: 6 from Spain 4 from Prussia. 3 from Russia and 2 from Austria. As stated above I own the minors so if I didn't list them then I took them from the other majors.

Edit: version 1.05
Ok so this is too much info I bet but why did I loose? And how did they all beat me by 1810?



eske -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/5/2009 9:29:16 AM)

Because the difficulty levels works as victory point bonuses to the AI. And it is still not balanced in.
Winning on 'hard' is probably impossible. Holding all AI's off till 1810 is actually not bad.
Try a lower difficulty. The AI will probably play the same way.

Marshall Ellis has mentioned somewhere, he will look at this VP bonus in next patch (1.07).

Meantime the 1.06 BETA is likely to be official

/eske



easterner -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/5/2009 2:35:28 PM)

You don't get to win on MEDIUM either, though it's much closer.



Chopain -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/5/2009 8:38:19 PM)

Why do they fudge victory points? Shouldn't the ai actually have to earn their points?

If you don't get to win on medium whats the point? It will take me some time to construct Poland so do I need to play on easy so the computer dosn't win right away?



pzgndr -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/5/2009 9:47:34 PM)

Per Mantis issue #525, VP bonuses are eliminated in v1.07. The Medium and Hard AI should still receive 15% and 20% bonus on manpower and money, respectively, and these benefits should translate into additional PPs depending on AI aggressiveness, and thus some higher VPs during the game. With Economic Manipulation the AI could also convert its manpower and money bonuses into additional PPs, and thus affect its VPs to advantage. This should be OK (at least better) but maybe some additional adjustments will be needed after players have a chance to assess some v1.07 game results.



bresh -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/6/2009 1:12:59 PM)

VP has little to do with what you control.
Its about gaining PPs.
Control is just a mean of getting more manpower and money.
You only gain pps for minors if you win battles, or if you conquer them from other players.
Gaining provinces from other nations dont offer extra pps, its the peace-terms that gain you pps.


Regards
Bresh



Marshall Ellis -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/6/2009 1:36:15 PM)

The AI does get bonuses at the MED and HARD levels which are too high! This has been fixed in 1.07




easterner -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/6/2009 3:59:20 PM)

Hi Bresh!

Though your statement is 100% accurate, it is completely irrelevant. In games like which Chopain describes France is pegging the meter at 15VP almost every turn while the others sit in the stability zone. Yet Fr loses the game by by 20-40% margins at HARD and 5-15% margins at MEDIUM.

Example HARD 1.06.01
VP 9/1809
Fr- 59%
GB- 84%
SP- 78%
Pr- 61%
Tu- 93%
Ru- 94%
Au- 65%

Fr couldn't even pass PR & AU which were ground down into dust and is differentially 35% behind RUSS.

This is common since at least 1.05. Earlier versions a PC could beat the AI at HARD.

This blowout of VP accrual is what I assume Marshall is fixing.



obsidiandrag -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/6/2009 6:03:55 PM)

Yes, he is removing the bonus VP from the equation but leaving the other bonuses in place.  The level of play for the computer is the same on every difficulty - the only difference for now is the bonus every econ phase of ($, MP, pp, VP) If you want a better balanced game with the AI getting the bonus $/MP now, ADD VP to the begining of the game for each AI opponent in the startup screen.  You can add 100 to france, england and the rest (excluding youself if you want) and this will take the game longer to reach the new levels. (just like entering bids for nations).

I have been able to beat it pretty regularly on all Med AI with any nation but you have to start Econ Manip early and maintain it along with pushing for the pp every chance you get.

good luck and I hope this helps..

OD



Ted1066 -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/6/2009 8:44:52 PM)

I managed to beat the AI on hard as France one time, but that was due to a constant state of war for the entire period, where I rolled from one nation to the next (Austria, then Prussia, Russia, England, Spain, then back to Austria, etc.) Basically, its pretty rare to pull a win under the current AI bonus guidelines.

Ted



Chopain -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/6/2009 9:21:41 PM)

Pretty much I just don't want the game to end right away.  I want to see how big I can get.  Now that I know the ai does not change I can play at a lower level.  I'm on med right now and ahead in VP's.  Now I'm affraid that I'm going to win too fast.   Ofcourse I cheated a couple time when Mack and the entire Austrian army DOW'ed on me right when I was recoverying from my Prussian victory.  He took out about 60 of my factors.  Yep I reloaded.  About 10 times. [:D]



easterner -> RE: France: Why did I get killed in victory points? (7/6/2009 9:27:35 PM)

Runs from room screaming!!!!!!!!!!!!



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