How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory

How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (Full Version)

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jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com -> How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/5/2009 11:13:28 PM)
This game seems to be based on World War 2, Road to victory, a game that I enjoyed playing for a while and liked pretty well. I'm quite interested in Time of Wrath (especially since it seems I will be able to get it for free), but was wondering what the main improvements are compared to Road to Victory. Perhaps this information has been posted elsewhere, in which case I would be grateful if someone can tell me where. Thank you for any assistance you can give me.

gwgardner -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/6/2009 1:33:21 AM)
Best place is to look in the Tow and RtV forums, where there are innumerable threads related to the differences. There's also a ToW AAR from which you can discern many differences. From those threads, you will get info on changes to the ground,air, and naval games, as well as graphics.

Anraz -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/6/2009 12:33:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jeffreys This game seems to be based on World War 2, Road to victory, a game that I enjoyed playing for a while and liked pretty well. I'm quite interested in Time of Wrath (especially since it seems I will be able to get it for free), but was wondering what the main improvements are compared to Road to Victory. Perhaps this information has been posted elsewhere, in which case I would be grateful if someone can tell me where. Thank you for any assistance you can give me. New and redone things (in a bit chaotic order written almost for the top of my head): a) features/rules introduced air-naval interaction introduced air recon mission introduced weather introduced rough terrain type reduced cost of purchasing and repairing land units rebalanced naval combat rebalanced units speed rebalanced losses in air combat rebalanced losses in land combat rebalanced units withdraw after combat rebalanced cost of units changed ZOC entry cost for land units new relation matrix corrected cost of units supply induced units upkeep cost cost of air units cut by half strategic bombers AP changed to 1 air division AP changed to 3 changed AP of all units rebalanced strength of units air units will hunt no more than one unit if attacking raider fleet rebalanced chance of withdraw after battle strategic bombers damage halved changed base chance for retreat of land units changed terrain type modifiers for unit retreat chance changed unit's strength for retreat chance losses dealt by air units corrected b) AI improved front lines for AI AI uses planes more aggressively AI performs independent tactical airstrikes new AI switches AI try to hold given cities AI try to hold forts of given level AI try to shield given borders corrected AI aggressiveness (land units) reset AI priorities other minor improvements c) GUI/graphics scalable screens resolutions (including HD) classical windowed mode changed map appearance weather related appearance of map changed units appearance map`s modes minimap`s modes zoom level related appearance of units other minor GUI tweaks new minimap image health bar add for naval units changed naval screen gfx changed diplomacy screen gfx new counters each fort level has its own representation added various eyecandies added ownership view in minimap added unit name under counter/sprite when zoomed in adjusted zoom levels corrected all scenario descriptions changed display of units images new “start scenario” screen new set of flags “next unit” function d) content new land OoB new naval OoB new air OoB over 1000 new events (commissioned ships, elite, volunteer and auxiliary units, flavor, fortifications, partisans, urgent situations, classic historical, mobilization, garrisoning and other) redone map (changed terrain , dozens of a “new” cities and rivers, rebalanced PP and so) corrected length of scenarios various garrisons new sea zones “new” various lines of fortifications (e.g. Frontier Wire, Toblerone Line, Mareth Line, Gustav Line, Zigfried Line, Mannerheim Line, Metaxas and Aliakmon Lines, Maginot Line, Daladier`s Line, Arpad Line, Stalin Line, Molotov Line, VKT and VT Lines, Salpa Line, Pomeranian Wall, Atlantic Wall, Siegfried Line, Skane Line, Concrete Border Line and other) simple forts (Liege, Eben Emael , Tobruk, Modlin and other) corrected commanders and their placement new music themes e) other introduced simple editor various new event methods corrected PBEM corrected memory use by GPU added shortkeys (minimap ownership mode change, ownership mode change, border mode change, Action Points left, city names, weather icons, hex grid, next unit) added many parameters for ease of modding (% of interceptor's (strength+level) when air strike considered effective, basic chance of land unit retreat, etc) and for sure even more...

Uxbridge -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/6/2009 5:28:14 PM)
This looks all splendid! [:)] Wish I could make games! Why, I can [8\|], but I can't make them computerized. Very well ... Some minor questions: Rebalanced naval combat - does this mean that ships no longer fire at full strength when damaged? Rebalanced chance of withdraw after battle - does this mean that the "retreat check" does no longer consider the concerned unit's initial strength, only the loss taken in the present combat. The retreat system has always given me some concern. It would be much better if the check was based on combat odds, not strength, and that the retreat execution was made with disregard of losses. This is one point that I haven't been able to mod. In fact I would like to see more retreats in the game, so that even 1-1 and 2-1 attacks could be worth trying. Scalable screens resolutions (including HD) - marvellous! Redone map (... rebalanced PP and so) - Sounds good. I was a bit dismayed by the fact that you could easily make more effect on larger, PP-infested cities than smaller ones if your bombing targets were carefully chosen. I hope that the PP allocation is more spread out now to prevent this. New sea zones - since I and Doomtrader discussed this, I hope that you can now transport units round Cape of Good Hope. Corrected PBEM - Longing to know what this means. [:'(]

mavraamides -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/6/2009 5:43:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anraz quote: ORIGINAL: jeffreys This game seems to be based on World War 2, Road to victory, a game that I enjoyed playing for a while and liked pretty well. I'm quite interested in Time of Wrath (especially since it seems I will be able to get it for free), but was wondering what the main improvements are compared to Road to Victory. Perhaps this information has been posted elsewhere, in which case I would be grateful if someone can tell me where. Thank you for any assistance you can give me. New and redone things (in a bit chaotic order written almost for the top of my head): a) features/rules introduced air-naval interaction introduced air recon mission introduced weather introduced rough terrain type reduced cost of purchasing and repairing land units rebalanced naval combat rebalanced units speed rebalanced losses in air combat rebalanced losses in land combat rebalanced units withdraw after combat rebalanced cost of units changed ZOC entry cost for land units new relation matrix corrected cost of units supply induced units upkeep cost cost of air units cut by half strategic bombers AP changed to 1 air division AP changed to 3 changed AP of all units rebalanced strength of units air units will hunt no more than one unit if attacking raider fleet rebalanced chance of withdraw after battle strategic bombers damage halved changed base chance for retreat of land units changed terrain type modifiers for unit retreat chance changed unit's strength for retreat chance losses dealt by air units corrected b) AI improved front lines for AI AI uses planes more aggressively AI performs independent tactical airstrikes new AI switches AI try to hold given cities AI try to hold forts of given level AI try to shield given borders corrected AI aggressiveness (land units) reset AI priorities other minor improvements c) GUI/graphics scalable screens resolutions (including HD) classical windowed mode changed map appearance weather related appearance of map changed units appearance map`s modes minimap`s modes zoom level related appearance of units other minor GUI tweaks new minimap image health bar add for naval units changed naval screen gfx changed diplomacy screen gfx new counters each fort level has its own representation added various eyecandies added ownership view in minimap added unit name under counter/sprite when zoomed in adjusted zoom levels corrected all scenario descriptions changed display of units images new “start scenario” screen new set of flags “next unit” function d) content new land OoB new naval OoB new air OoB over 1000 new events (commissioned ships, elite, volunteer and auxiliary units, flavor, fortifications, partisans, urgent situations, classic historical, mobilization, garrisoning and other) redone map (changed terrain , dozens of a “new” cities and rivers, rebalanced PP and so) corrected length of scenarios various garrisons new sea zones “new” various lines of fortifications (e.g. Frontier Wire, Toblerone Line, Mareth Line, Gustav Line, Zigfried Line, Mannerheim Line, Metaxas and Aliakmon Lines, Maginot Line, Daladier`s Line, Arpad Line, Stalin Line, Molotov Line, VKT and VT Lines, Salpa Line, Pomeranian Wall, Atlantic Wall, Siegfried Line, Skane Line, Concrete Border Line and other) simple forts (Liege, Eben Emael , Tobruk, Modlin and other) corrected commanders and their placement new music themes e) other introduced simple editor various new event methods corrected PBEM corrected memory use by GPU added shortkeys (minimap ownership mode change, ownership mode change, border mode change, Action Points left, city names, weather icons, hex grid, next unit) added many parameters for ease of modding (% of interceptor's (strength+level) when air strike considered effective, basic chance of land unit retreat, etc) and for sure even more... That's it??? That's all we get for free???

Anraz -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/6/2009 6:26:50 PM)
quote: That's it??? That's all we get for free??? Knowing nowadays gamedev if it had been less, you would have had to pay for it :D [:D]

Michael the Pole -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/6/2009 7:03:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anraz quote: That's it??? That's all we get for free??? Knowing nowadays gamedev if it had been less, you would have had to pay for it :D [:D] More likely they'd tell you that you're going to get this huge list of improvements, that you'd get a sizeable discount for preordering only to discover that there is no discount and no free game as advertised, that you have to register with a firm that would actually own your game and would only allow you to play when you've down loaded the same file you've downloaded every other time you've tried to play from the incredibly slow security firm that only has three servers running at any time anyway, and that requires that you watch 176 commercials for Pokemon and Mario Brothers xbox games (calling them breaking news) and you only then discover that the developers set of system requirements is "somewhat optomistic" and you cant even get the miserable pos game to even load, although your system far exceeds the published sys req, but that's your problem and the huge makers of baru dolls cant possibly give you a refund and you've just bought a sixty dollar desktop icon to remind you that you've been taken again. (Actual player adventure with Empire, Total Garbage!)[X(]

Anraz -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/6/2009 10:15:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Uxbridge Rebalanced chance of withdraw after battle - does this mean that the "retreat check" does no longer consider the concerned unit's initial strength, only the loss taken in the present combat. The retreat system has always given me some concern. It would be much better if the check was based on combat odds, not strength, and that the retreat execution was made with disregard of losses. This is one point that I haven't been able to mod. In fact I would like to see more retreats in the game, so that even 1-1 and 2-1 attacks could be worth trying. Now everything influence this chance, except weather ; ) [odds, unit strength {after battle}, terrain]. And all of those are at your service in consts.csv :) quote: New sea zones - since I and Doomtrader discussed this, I hope that you can now transport units round Cape of Good Hope. You can transport units around Africa.

doomtrader -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/6/2009 10:22:28 PM)
But the weather already affect unit's strength

Plainian -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/7/2009 12:01:23 AM)
Some interesting new changes listed above. There will be a new terrain type as well. One thing I don't see is any changes to supply system? At the moment supply is judged at the begining of the turn, I seem to remember that there was a discussion about moving it to the begining of a Phase?

doomtrader -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/7/2009 9:39:10 AM)
Instead of that we have decided to allow unit to survive for a given amount of turns without supply. However with every turn without supply, effectivenes will be reduced.

Chocolino -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/7/2009 9:29:52 PM)
This is an impressive list of improvements. Congratulations. Just was wondering about the below point and wasn't sure initially what it means: quote: new relation matrix Still not sure actually - but is this referring to diplomacy and the starting values of various potential minors for political alignment and political resistance (DP cost)? I assume this is addressing some of the earlier concerns about how hard or easy it is to bring in Minor Allies via diplomacy (DPs)? I remember that Spain was a particularly hot discussed topic in this context .....

Mike Parker -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/7/2009 9:46:47 PM)
Yeah the Diplomacy was a problem. It was almost impossible to get the traditional axis minors of Finland, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria all in a single game much less in time for a historical Barbarossa. However it was relatively easy to get Spain. Mmmmm to be fair the only real problem with the first thing I mentioned was Finland, it was almost impossible to get, and if you did it was hardly worth the effort since you would have most likely have to have given up every other minor for a summer 41 barbarossa. I have high hopes though that this has been fixed! Doomie commented several times on this subject when it was in the forums about fixes for these things.

Chocolino -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/7/2009 10:07:09 PM)
Agree with Finland. It is admittedly hard to find the perfect balance that works both in the game and is also reasonably historical. I look forward to seeing the next approach to this problem in ToW.

Redmarkus5 -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/17/2009 10:52:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole quote: ORIGINAL: Anraz quote: That's it??? That's all we get for free??? Knowing nowadays gamedev if it had been less, you would have had to pay for it :D [:D] More likely they'd tell you that you're going to get this huge list of improvements, that you'd get a sizeable discount for preordering only to discover that there is no discount and no free game as advertised, that you have to register with a firm that would actually own your game and would only allow you to play when you've down loaded the same file you've downloaded every other time you've tried to play from the incredibly slow security firm that only has three servers running at any time anyway, and that requires that you watch 176 commercials for Pokemon and Mario Brothers xbox games (calling them breaking news) and you only then discover that the developers set of system requirements is "somewhat optomistic" and you cant even get the miserable pos game to even load, although your system far exceeds the published sys req, but that's your problem and the huge makers of baru dolls cant possibly give you a refund and you've just bought a sixty dollar desktop icon to remind you that you've been taken again. (Actual player adventure with Empire, Total Garbage!)[X(] Michael, I had the same problem with Empire/Steam at the outset. But did you know that if you open Steam while you are offline, it skips all the logon processes and you can play the game offline immediately? I discovered that while on a flight :) Also, a few reductions to my settings (smaller units, no shadows, less grass, etc.) and the game runs great. I really enjoy it and the battles are very interesting. Markus

EisenHammer -> RE: How does Time of Wrath Differ from Road to Victory (7/17/2009 11:43:31 AM)
IMO steam sucks. I will never get anything that has steam on it again.

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