HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (Full Version)

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GaryChildress -> HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 7:32:15 PM)

OK. I think I may finally break down and get one of the HPS games so at least I can say I've tried one. The graphics don't look all that great but I hear there are some fan made graphics mods and stuff out there.

Would anyone be able to recommend a good game to get from the HPS site? I've been eying the Panzer Campaign Series Kursk '43. Also the newer Total War in Europe: First Blitzkrieg looks kind of good. Does anyone have any recommendations? Do the Panzer Campaign series or the Total War in Europe series have good AI? What is the best game in the series?

Thanks.



Big B -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 7:44:50 PM)

I have Sicily '43. It's true the graphics could use a little help - but the only thing I really don't care for is the GUI. I think it's too old fashioned and non-intuitive for my tastes.

But the AI is good, and the detail excellent.

I chose Sicily '43 because it has about the biggest longest complete campaign they have - on a huge map (you know us WitP'ers like big long campaigns [;)] )

B



Brigz -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 8:04:53 PM)

Gary,

If you want to save $10 to $20, go to this link for the Naval Warfare Simulations store. They sell HPS games at a considerable discount. I've ordered many games from them and they are a very reliable dealer. And you will still be supporting HPS by buying their games no matter what price you pay.
http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/noname.html

As a side note, I've primarily purchased HPS's Civil War Campaign games and their newer ancients series so I can't give you much info on the WWII and Modern games. As many people have said, the AI leaves a lot to be desired, but the research and basic game models are very well done. These games excel at human to human play but you can get by with the AI similar to playing a board wargame solitaire. Customer support and game updates are frequent and well supported.



GaryChildress -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 8:25:16 PM)

Hey thanks Dave! That will make things a lot less painful! [&o]

@Big B: Thanks for the recommendation, B. I'll take a look at Sicily.

Does anyone have Kursk '43 or First Blitzkrieg who can give a kind of review of how good they are?



V22 Osprey -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 8:26:21 PM)

My favorite is Panzer Campaigns:Stalingrad '42.People seem to like Total War in Europe but I'm not a fan of that scale and sticking with Panzer Campaigns.Musket and Pike:The Renaissance is a superb title.I also enjoy the Campaign 1776 of the Early American Battle Series.Graphics aren't that bad and I think that once you play the game graphics wont matter.Like all John Tiller games, it shines in PBEM.[8D]



GaryChildress -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 8:34:21 PM)

What about the GUI? Big B touched on something that I'm a bit concerned with. Looking at the HPS Panzer Campaign interface in the screenies it looks like it may be difficult to master. [:o]



V22 Osprey -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 8:40:15 PM)

John Tiller's Interface has been the same since the beginning.Trust me you will pick up the interface very quickly.Plus he uses the same interface in everygame he does(even his Modern air power and Naval Campaigns Series) so even across different series you will know how to play the game.



GaryChildress -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 9:51:07 PM)

Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the First Blitzkrieg title. It looks like a theater of the war which would be interesting to me. I almost bought the Kursk one but thought better of it for an introductory game. It sounds like there are more diverse campaigns to choose from in the First Blitzkrieg than in the Kursk title. In First Blitzkrieg you can choose between Poland, Denmark, Norway, Low Countries or France campaigns. I checked out a review at Amazon and it looked pretty favorable except for the fact that there is no "Grand" campaign involving Germany vs Allies. Instead they have each campaign broken off separately.

Thanks for the website recommendation Dave! I saved at least $20 on it I'm guessing. Just hope it turns out to be a good game. I'm an Amazon member myself so I may do a review on it there since there seem to be very few reviews of HPS games there.



Brigz -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 9:51:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

My favorite is Panzer Campaigns:Stalingrad '42.People seem to like Total War in Europe but I'm not a fan of that scale and sticking with Panzer Campaigns.Musket and Pike:The Renaissance is a superb title.I also enjoy the Campaign 1776 of the Early American Battle Series.Graphics aren't that bad and I think that once you play the game graphics wont matter.Like all John Tiller games, it shines in PBEM.[8D]

I agree about Campaign 1776. A superb "grand" tactical game for American Revolutionary War battles. Unit counters are usually less tha 50 men each, cannon are usually 1 gun per counter. Musket range is 4 hexes and rifle range is 8 hexes. Same basic Tiller platform but with a distinctive feel.

And again I feel the need to thank the folks at Matrix for letting us discuss some of our favorite non-Matrix games on their forums. Another reason why Matrix is at the top of the wargame market.



GaryChildress -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 10:00:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Briggs
And again I feel the need to thank the folks at Matrix for letting us discuss some of our favorite non-Matrix games on their forums. Another reason why Matrix is at the top of the wargame market.


Indeed! Thank you Matrix! [&o][&o]



sol_invictus -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/11/2009 11:53:39 PM)

I owned Smolensk '41 many years ago and liked it and the AI wasn't completely useless. I also owned The First Blitzkrieg a couple of years ago and was disappointed with the AI. I also owned Punic War and the interface was really cludgey and was a chore to wade through. The Napoleonic games are solid but the AI is weak. Owned several Civil War titles several years ago and Shiloh was very good. Antietam and Gettysburg were solid but again email is your best bet. I just ordere Renaissance. I really don't think that the interface is bad at all except for the Ancients games. You will have no problem picking up on it very quickly.



V22 Osprey -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 12:07:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I owned Smolensk '41 many years ago and liked it and the AI wasn't completely useless. I also owned The First Blitzkrieg a couple of years ago and was disappointed with the AI. I also owned Punic War and the interface was really cludgey and was a chore to wade through. The Napoleonic games are solid but the AI is weak. Owned several Civil War titles several years ago and Shiloh was very good. Antietam and Gettysburg were solid but again email is your best bet. I just ordere Renaissance. I really don't think that the interface is bad at all except for the Ancients games. You will have no problem picking up on it very quickly.


The Ancient Games aren't designed by John Tiller.



sol_invictus -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 12:13:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I owned Smolensk '41 many years ago and liked it and the AI wasn't completely useless. I also owned The First Blitzkrieg a couple of years ago and was disappointed with the AI. I also owned Punic War and the interface was really cludgey and was a chore to wade through. The Napoleonic games are solid but the AI is weak. Owned several Civil War titles several years ago and Shiloh was very good. Antietam and Gettysburg were solid but again email is your best bet. I just ordere Renaissance. I really don't think that the interface is bad at all except for the Ancients games. You will have no problem picking up on it very quickly.


The Ancient Games aren't designed by John Tiller.


Right, I was just listing the HPS games I had played. The interface and turn progression is completely different. I actually prefer WEGO and thought I would love the Ancients engine but it just fell flat.



madgamer2 -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 2:24:50 AM)

Save your $$$$$ and pick another company.

Madgamer



GaryChildress -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 2:40:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

Save your $$$$$ and pick another company.

Madgamer


Too late. I'll post a link to my review of the game at Amazon when I do it, though. [:)]



JRodda -> John Tiller's WW2 Campaign (7/12/2009 2:47:53 AM)

Other people in this forum recommended the John Tiller WW2 Campaign series to me, and I have not been disappointed at all.  It's been a long time since I've played such a satisfying game.  The game is very realistic and has tons of scenarios and campaigns, including the Grossdeutschland Division at Kursk.  I'm currently playing the Case Blue campaign as a Germans Panzergrenadier commander (Steiner [;)]), and it has been a blast.  Although it is (like most Matrix games) turn-based, it puts to shame all those myraids off WW2 Real-time strategy games on the market.  I say half-joking and half-seriously that the John Tiller WW2 Campaign series should keep me plenty busy until such time as Blizzard finally gets around to releasing Starcraft 2.  lol



E -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 3:43:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

and the AI wasn't completely useless.

That's probably the biggest recommendation I've ever read... for any wargame! *grin*




sol_invictus -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 4:42:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

and the AI wasn't completely useless.

That's probably the biggest recommendation I've ever read... for any wargame! *grin*





Yeah, it's slim pickings out there. PBEM has ruined me from ever playing a wargame solo again.



E -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 5:47:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

Yeah, it's slim pickings out there. PBEM has ruined me from ever playing a wargame solo again.


Solo wargaming is the entire reason I bought my first computer. Being as I still suck at wargaming, I don't have as much problem with AI incompetence as most. *grin?*



eastwindrain -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 9:03:53 AM)

I cannot understand why HPS games encounter so much flak on this site, mostly on graphics and the AI.
I consider the Panzer/Modern Campaigns, ACW and Napoleonic games with maps and OOB the best PBEM games.
With at least 60 original games produced and more in the works they must be doing something right, and even Matrix produce upgraded versions of John Tillers early games.

Would recommend France'40 or Normandy'44 with Sicily'43 maybe more manageable for a first full campaign.
For WW3 Danube Front'85 has the full campaign map from Denmark down to Austria with a detailed OOB, great value for the money, and mods available for a 1989 version.

OK I have some Matrix games but only play WitP but thats on hold until AE arrives later this month.



Lützow -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 10:13:34 AM)

I don't like the visuals either, mainly due to the small and less informative counters. But it's also their policy I disagree with: using same engine for like 15 years, no forum on their website, no download ability for games ... There would be much room for improvement.



E -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 10:34:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

I don't like the visuals either, mainly due to the small and less informative counters.

Yes, having to look at the unit info in the windows that default to the side of the screen takes some getting used. But all the info is there... just not on the counters. Alternatively, one can use the 3d counters in 3d mode, which have more information on the counters (and helps me get a handle on terrain).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
But it's also their policy I disagree with: using same engine for like 15 years,


Can't argue much with that. But it does allow them to update all their games to their latest standard(s). So that even the oldest games play like the newest games. But the flip side of that is it makes them feel justified for their prices never dropping for OLD titles. *sigh*

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
no forum on their website,


I think they have informal forums at wargamer.com (I know there are dedicated forums elsewhere as well, but I think that's where I got an official answer to a problem a long time ago).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
no download ability for games


As a binge-buyer, I cannot disagree there! But the flip side is that if I have to wait, I might as well look around for better deals first. And I've saved a lot of money by buying their games elsewhere.



eastwindrain -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 10:53:46 AM)

As someone already said, playing against the AI ensures you will always win.
My name is Lowlander, I'm a PC and I think I'm so lucky having so many games to choose from.



elcidce -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/12/2009 1:58:25 PM)

Everyone is neglecting to mention the Squad Battles Series which I have enjoyed. They also range from ww2 to Soviet Afghan War.

There is also an ancients, and civil war series to try.



madgamer2 -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/13/2009 3:38:17 AM)

I have my doubts that the tiller games were "Upgraded" in the usual sense. I had all the civil war & Napoleon game installed and all would run on my XP with patch's that were obtained from a site I found. There was actually only one of the civil war games that would not boot after being installed in XP till I found a patch.
I have installed the Tiller series games both civil war & Napoleon and to me there is no difference in the two versions. Perhaps someone can enlighten me to this "upgrade" you speak of I see no difference in the graphics, the same bad AI,(other than having all the games on one disk) I do not see any difference.
So if someone can tell me what the Upgrade was exactly I will feel a bit better.

Madgamer



V22 Osprey -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/13/2009 4:31:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

I have my doubts that the tiller games were "Upgraded" in the usual sense. I had all the civil war & Napoleon game installed and all would run on my XP with patch's that were obtained from a site I found. There was actually only one of the civil war games that would not boot after being installed in XP till I found a patch.
I have installed the Tiller series games both civil war & Napoleon and to me there is no difference in the two versions. Perhaps someone can enlighten me to this "upgrade" you speak of I see no difference in the graphics, the same bad AI,(other than having all the games on one disk) I do not see any difference.
So if someone can tell me what the Upgrade was exactly I will feel a bit better.

Madgamer


No, they upgrade functionality.For example, when Campaign 1776 released it didn't have the option of Battalion colors(used for you to help keep formations together).But it was released in a later title Battalion clor option was released and was then added to Campaign 1776.Basicly, if there is a bug in the engine, it will be fixed for all the titles, not the just the latest one.This is so all games are at the same status.



madgamer2 -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/13/2009 11:48:53 PM)

as can be the case I did not make myself clear. I am talking about the two prgrams sold by matrix consisting of his civil war and Napoleon game that were formally sold by Talonsoft.
There is no real difference between the talonsoft and Matrix versions.
As far as any of his HPS or other games such as 1776 game you are right. Its just that the poster I responded to mentioned that the matrix versions were Upgraded but only on the sense that they were on the same disk and could run on OS's they may not have been able to before.

Madgamer



madgamer2 -> RE: HPS Games: Looking for Recommendations (7/14/2009 12:09:07 AM)

The games are many in number and are in some ways very good games but on the web site they all have that same look about them. I would swear that they look the same as in the 70's which does not make them bad games just a bit dated. This is not a bad thing to many gamers. I have some older games I still play to.
It is not so much a case of good or bad but what an individual player is willing to except
as a minimum standard in games he buys. I am willing to spend $70 for a matrix game and not consider it to high a price if it is one that interests me. I know that the graphics and sound, and AI will be as good as the state of game design will allow.
I am not willing to pay $50 for games that do not meet what I consider minimum requirements. There are a couple of HPS games I am considering in spite of this but I have not yet decided to buy them.

In the end it comes down to personal choice and what we think is important in a particular companies games. The value of any game is in the hands of the buyer as it should be in a fair marketplace.

Madgamer



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