Pending Modern Wars Vol. I

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GavinP -> Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 1:11:13 AM)
Guys, Having just re-installed Divided Ground Middle East with all the US, Muslim, Islamist and assorted other mods that appeared several years ago, I was wondering if Jason, or anyone else for that matter could possibly give us a bit of a sneak peak at what we can expect from the pending Modern Wars Vol. I Middle East workover. I take it DG Vietnam is going to be much the same as Jorge's fantastic mods - which worked real well - that he made some four/five years ago. But as Mideast games are so flawed was just wondering what we can expect vis-a-vis scenarios, maps, orgs, nations etc. Cheers. GavinP

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 2:56:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GavinP Guys, Having just re-installed Divided Ground Middle East with all the US, Muslim, Islamist and assorted other mods that appeared several years ago, I was wondering if Jason, or anyone else for that matter could possibly give us a bit of a sneak peak at what we can expect from the pending Modern Wars Vol. I Middle East workover. I take it DG Vietnam is going to be much the same as Jorge's fantastic mods - which worked real well - that he made some four/five years ago. But as Mideast games are so flawed was just wondering what we can expect vis-a-vis scenarios, maps, orgs, nations etc. Cheers. GavinP Here is a start. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1975739 Hopefully it will answer a few of the questions. The Middle East portion will be a brand new offering (DG was scrapped). New OOB's, new scenarios, new maps, updated and new graphics, etc. The first set of scenarios are a variety of H2H and Hal, although with a heavy focus on H2H - as with the Campaign Series, this is intended to be a living game , meaning that future UPDATES will be available that will add oobs, units, scenarios and campaigns for free. The first release will not be the final version. Topics for the Middle East portion include the usual suspects of 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 and 1982. Additional conflicts, battles that are covered are the various border clashes, Algeria War of Independence, Yemen, War of Attrition, etc etc. Initial countries to be included are Israel, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, France, UK, Iraq and the Muslim & Islamic factions. I hope you will be happy with the redone OOB's, I have spent far too much time on them and are definitely designed with the scenario designer in mind. Vietnam is Jorge's version, with enhancements, additional OOBs, new units, new graphics and updated play features. A limited number of scenarios will be included (50, I believe) for the initial release, many more will follow with additional UPDATES. The first and third Indochina Wars will be partially covered, mostly providing the tools for those that are interested in the theatre to build and expand. While the US will be included in Vietnam, I am in the middle of rebuilding the USA and USSR from scratch to be included in Modern Wars: Volume II that will deal with NATO vs Warsaw Pact and Korea. As per usual, the MAP, OOB and SCENARIO editors are included. Jason Petho

rich12545 -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 4:02:25 AM)
As a solo only player (and there are many of us) I'm wondering about the emphasis on H2H. Do you know roughly how many solo scenarios there will be in each offering? What will be included for the solo player? I'm mostly interested in the middle east and vietnam.

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 4:08:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 As a solo only player (and there are many of us) I'm wondering about the emphasis on H2H. Do you know roughly how many solo scenarios there will be in each offering? What will be included for the solo player? I'm mostly interested in the middle east and vietnam. Stand alone scenarios for play against HAL (AI, Programmed Opponent, whatever you want to call him) and Linked Campaign Games. As mentioned, the editors are also included to build whatever scenario type you wish. Jason Petho

rich12545 -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 4:12:38 PM)
Jason, thanks for replying. A couple of things just to clarify if you don't mind. Per title, about how many solo scenarios will be included? Closer to 3 or 30 or 60? I don't do much with scenario editors but am a big fan of random scenario generators. Will that be included?

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 4:34:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 Jason, thanks for replying. A couple of things just to clarify if you don't mind. Per title, about how many solo scenarios will be included? Closer to 3 or 30 or 60? To start, a dozen or so per game. quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 I don't do much with scenario editors but am a big fan of random scenario generators. Will that be included? Not with the initial release, no. But will be included in a future UPDATE along with the Dynamic Campaigns. Jason Petho

V22 Osprey -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 5:23:25 PM)
So, no battle generator with initial release?Did I read that right?I thought the Battle Generator is built into the game???

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 6:13:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey So, no battle generator with initial release?Did I read that right?I thought the Battle Generator is built into the game??? It is, but doesn't seem to be functioning as intended at the moment. If it can be fixed before the initial release, it will be included; if not, it will be included in a later UPDATE. One way or another, it will be included. Just a matter of when. Jason Petho

V22 Osprey -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 7:52:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey So, no battle generator with initial release?Did I read that right?I thought the Battle Generator is built into the game??? It is, but doesn't seem to be functioning as intended at the moment. If it can be fixed before the initial release, it will be included; if not, it will be included in a later UPDATE. One way or another, it will be included. Just a matter of when. Jason Petho Damn, was the Original Divided Ground that bad? It sounds like DG sucked so bad that you guys had literally strip it down to just the menus and executible file and start everything from scratch.

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 8:21:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey Damn, was the Original Divided Ground that bad? Not sure if it was that bad, but it certainly wasn't that good. Jason Petho

dudalb_slith -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 8:29:59 PM)
I am dissapointed at the way solo gamers are being treated like second class citizens .I might not even buy this game, and stick, with all it's flaws, to DG if only a dozen scenarios are going to be playable solo. BTW I thought that all scenarios in the Campaign system, even if they were designed primarily for H2H play, could be played with AI, although the AI is weaker then in the scenarios designed for Solo play.

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 8:39:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dudalb I am dissapointed at the way solo gamers are being treated like second class citizens .I might not even buy this game, and stick, with all it's flaws, to DG if only a dozen scenarios are going to be playable solo. There will also be Linked Campaigns available for solo play. I could convert the LCG scenarios for standalone play which would increase the amount of solo scenarios considerably. Keep in mind this is also just the initial release, additional scenarios will be available with future UPDATES. quote: ORIGINAL: dudalb BTW I thought that all scenarios in the Campaign system, even if they were designed primarily for H2H play, could be played with AI, although the AI is weaker then in the scenarios designed for Solo play. Of course, you can play any scenario versus the computer, no matter what its design intent. Jason Petho

V22 Osprey -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 8:55:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey Damn, was the Original Divided Ground that bad? Not sure if it was that bad, but it certainly wasn't that good. Jason Petho I wonder what went wrong.John Tiller would never design such a bad game.Every game I've played designed by him has always been superb.Something must have went wrong.

rich12545 -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 8:59:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho quote: ORIGINAL: dudalb I am dissapointed at the way solo gamers are being treated like second class citizens .I might not even buy this game, and stick, with all it's flaws, to DG if only a dozen scenarios are going to be playable solo. There will also be Linked Campaigns available for solo play. I could convert the LCG scenarios for standalone play which would increase the amount of solo scenarios considerably. Keep in mind this is also just the initial release, additional scenarios will be available with future UPDATES. quote: ORIGINAL: dudalb BTW I thought that all scenarios in the Campaign system, even if they were designed primarily for H2H play, could be played with AI, although the AI is weaker then in the scenarios designed for Solo play. Of course, you can play any scenario versus the computer, no matter what its design intent. Jason Petho Now that's interesting. So there are no scripts for the ai in solo scenarios? It's just maybe the setup that isn't optimized for solo? How does that work? And btw, how is the ai opponent in these modern battles compared to the campaign series?

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 9:00:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey I wonder what went wrong.John Tiller would never design such a bad game.Every game I've played designed by him has always been superb.Something must have went wrong. Take-two, if I recall correctly, for the quick buck. Jason Petho

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 9:03:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 Now that's interesting. So there are no scripts for the ai in solo scenarios? It's just maybe the setup that isn't optimized for solo? How does that work? No. HAL is pretty well Victory Point based with a few tweaks to set how agressive or defensive he is. quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 And btw, how is the ai opponent in these modern battles compared to the campaign series? HAL is pretty much the same, not pretty, but functional. Major improvements to HAL are coming for the first UPDATE for MW:VI which will hopefully see HAL as a viable opponent. This is an extreme amount of work to code and to test which is why it is being held off until the first UPDATE. Jason Petho

V22 Osprey -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 9:10:46 PM)
I'll be happy to test the new AI improvements.Though, I'm a pretty average player. I figured in Modern Wars the AI would HAVE to be improved for the new style of warfare.(Helicopters escpially.Who wants to see the AI only using helicopters on road hexes like trucks.[X(])

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 9:18:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey Who wants to see the AI only using helicopters on road hexes like trucks.[X(]) Helicopters move over all terrain types at the same cost, so that isn't an issue. Would be amusing though. Jason Petho

rich12545 -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 9:26:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 Now that's interesting. So there are no scripts for the ai in solo scenarios? It's just maybe the setup that isn't optimized for solo? How does that work? No. HAL is pretty well Victory Point based with a few tweaks to set how agressive or defensive he is. quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 And btw, how is the ai opponent in these modern battles compared to the campaign series? HAL is pretty much the same, not pretty, but functional. Major improvements to HAL are coming for the first UPDATE for MW:VI which will hopefully see HAL as a viable opponent. This is an extreme amount of work to code and to test which is why it is being held off until the first UPDATE. Jason Petho Wow, that seems like a long time from now. VI. We don't even have I yet. End of next year for VI? And then will these improvements be ported back to the other titles?

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 9:29:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 Wow, that seems like a long time from now. VI. We don't even have I yet. End of next year for VI? Volume I will be out by the end of 2009. Hopefully the fall, but probably later... maybe for Christmas? I need more hours in a day. quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 And then will these improvements be ported back to the other titles? Of course! Jason Petho

kool_kat -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 9:50:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dudalb I am dissapointed at the way solo gamers are being treated like second class citizens Maybe you should try H2H (Human vs. Human) play? [8D] H2H play is MUCH more interesting then playing HAL... and your game play would improve faster playing against human opponents. Just don't try some of your "successful" tactics utilized against HAL when playing a human opponent - you will be slaughtered! [8D] Been there and done that. [:'(] I only play H2H now. IMHO, H2H is the best way to go in JTCS! [:D]

berto -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 10:02:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho There will also be Linked Campaigns available for solo play. I could convert the LCG scenarios for standalone play which would increase the amount of solo scenarios considerably. Please do so! The more the merrier! I, too, only play against the AI, else hot-seat solitaire.

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 10:04:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: berto Please do so! The more the merrier! I, too, only play against the AI, else hot-seat solitaire. Then it shall be done! Jason Petho

rich12545 -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 10:19:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 Wow, that seems like a long time from now. VI. We don't even have I yet. End of next year for VI? Volume I will be out by the end of 2009. Hopefully the fall, but probably later... maybe for Christmas? I need more hours in a day. quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 And then will these improvements be ported back to the other titles? Of course! Jason Petho Volume I? What about VI (6)? Are you saying the ai improvements will be in volume 1 and not 6 and will be out, probably, by New Year? [&:] Maybe we should avoid confusion and not use roman numerals. [:'(]

Jason Petho -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 10:28:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 Volume I? What about VI (6)? Sorry, thought you were referring to MW:VI (Modern Wars:Volume I) quote: ORIGINAL: rich12545 Are you saying the ai improvements will be in volume 1 and not 6 and will be out, probably, by New Year? [&:] AI improvements will be available for the first UPDATE for Volume I, the 1.01 UPDATE (as the initial release will be called 1.00) Mid-late 2010 is the planned release for the Modern Wars: Volume I 1.01 UPDATE. Jason Petho

rich12545 -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 10:45:37 PM)
Ok, now I get it. Looks good.

dudalb_slith -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 10:54:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho quote: ORIGINAL: dudalb I am dissapointed at the way solo gamers are being treated like second class citizens .I might not even buy this game, and stick, with all it's flaws, to DG if only a dozen scenarios are going to be playable solo. There will also be Linked Campaigns available for solo play. I could convert the LCG scenarios for standalone play which would increase the amount of solo scenarios considerably. Keep in mind this is also just the initial release, additional scenarios will be available with future UPDATES. quote: ORIGINAL: dudalb BTW I thought that all scenarios in the Campaign system, even if they were designed primarily for H2H play, could be played with AI, although the AI is weaker then in the scenarios designed for Solo play. Of course, you can play any scenario versus the computer, no matter what its design intent. Jason Petho OK, I take back what I said if all scenarios are playable agaisnt the AI.. If you adjust the difficulty slide, a lot games meant to be H2H can be good as a solataire game.

dudalb_slith -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 11:07:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey Damn, was the Original Divided Ground that bad? Not sure if it was that bad, but it certainly wasn't that good. Jason Petho I wonder what went wrong.John Tiller would never design such a bad game.Every game I've played designed by him has always been superb.Something must have went wrong. Because Tiller did not design Divided Ground The game uses his Campaign engine. He had no input into the scenarious, Campaign, OB design or anything else. Basically Take Two bought out Talonsoft and Tiller and the rest of the original Talonsoft design crew quit when they found out Take Two intended to basically gut the wargame operation and turn it into a US dumping ground for European designs of questionable quality..mainly a bunch of poorly thought out Fantasy games. (I have nothing against Fantasy Games whatsoever...Warcraft II and III are among my all time favorite games..but the desing that Talonsoft put out after the Take Two takeover were just plain bad games). As .I guess, an attempt to throw a bone to the Talonsoft wargamers, TT did bring out Divided Ground, which had been previously announced, but with a new design crew that basically did a poor job on it. Tiller had nothing to do with the design of DG..the company just used his engine. The sad history of Talonsoft and what Take Two did to it is pretty well known. It's not a pretty story.

V22 Osprey -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/16/2009 11:27:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dudalb quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Petho quote: ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey Damn, was the Original Divided Ground that bad? Not sure if it was that bad, but it certainly wasn't that good. Jason Petho I wonder what went wrong.John Tiller would never design such a bad game.Every game I've played designed by him has always been superb.Something must have went wrong. Because Tiller did not design Divided Ground The game uses his Campaign engine. He had no input into the scenarious, Campaign, OB design or anything else. Basically Take Two bought out Talonsoft and Tiller and the rest of the original Talonsoft design crew quit when they found out Take Two intended to basically gut the wargame operation and turn it into a US dumping ground for European designs of questionable quality..mainly a bunch of poorly thought out Fantasy games. (I have nothing against Fantasy Games whatsoever...Warcraft II and III are among my all time favorite games..but the desing that Talonsoft put out after the Take Two takeover were just plain bad games). As .I guess, an attempt to throw a bone to the Talonsoft wargamers, TT did bring out Divided Ground, which had been previously announced, but with a new design crew that basically did a poor job on it. Tiller had nothing to do with the design of DG..the company just used his engine. The sad history of Talonsoft and what Take Two did to it is pretty well known. It's not a pretty story. How sad.Atleast John Tiller found HPS so he could continue his great work.From what it sounds like, Divided Ground isn't a Tiller game in-any way. I knew it, I knew there was no way John Tiller would design such a monstrosity.Divided Ground isn't even worthy to use a John Tiller engine.Thank you Jason and the rest of the team for redeeming the worthiness of this game.[&o]

TAIL GUNNER -> RE: Pending Modern Wars Vol. I (7/17/2009 12:08:44 AM)
quote: AI improvements will be available for the first UPDATE for Volume I, the 1.01 UPDATE (as the initial release will be called 1.00) Will these AI improvements be retrofitted into JTCS? And what LCGs can we look forward to in MW:Volume I? ChadG

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