RE: Early Strategy

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EUBanana -> RE: Early Strategy (7/30/2009 4:48:10 PM)
Oh, and day 1, the Dutch Martins are having a crash course in naval strike training. [:D] Bring it on!

EUBanana -> RE: Early Strategy (7/30/2009 4:54:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HMS Resolution I'm planning on trying to make my real stand in Burma. Historically, the British at least put up a decent show there, and maybe with some reinforcements wasted on Singers and a few more Hurricanes, I can try and hold out. Mmm, I dont really like Burma much. I've had issues trying to get transports in and out of Rangoon already, and any serious effort in Burma means you need Rangoon presumably, with the new harsher logistics. The only really nice defensible spot you got is Pegu, and thats one hex away. Which means if things go south, total collapse and catastrophe beckons very quickly potentially. I wouldnt want to get an overcommitment of units trapped in northern Burma.

Graymane -> RE: Early Strategy (7/30/2009 6:21:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EUBanana quote: ORIGINAL: Graymane I would put up a fight in the PI, DEI and Malaya. With the leaky CAP rules and the improved surface combat model and the new rules for loading/unloading and transports, it is worth making the Japanese fight for every inch. Unescorted bombers and transports are great targets early on. What about the ABDACOM reinforcements in Aden? Would you move those into the DEI? Usually you are pulling stuff out of the DEI, I've never had to make the decision of whether to move ABDA units into the DEI before. Theres an Indian regiment among them, AV 120 odd. So it's not total junk. Theres about 2/3rds of a division in total I suppose if you add up all the little bits. Java or not bother and keep them in India, is the question... You know, I haven't really gotten that far into it yet [:)] I'm not sure I would move land troops into the DEI. I was thinking more along the lines of keeping what is already there, there, but more concentrated. Also, using the ships and the planes that are there to harass. Maybe fly something like the AVG in. Make the Japanese expend planning points, lose transports and pilots and generate fatigue. Most of all, make them take the time to do it honest.

Grollub -> RE: Early Strategy (7/30/2009 6:44:38 PM)
Speaking of "Sir Robin", found a classic on my drive [;)] [image]local://upfiles/18375/EB4E348541C94B678790852E731873AF.jpg[/image]

EUBanana -> RE: Early Strategy (7/30/2009 7:09:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Graymane You know, I haven't really gotten that far into it yet [:)] I'm not sure I would move land troops into the DEI. I was thinking more along the lines of keeping what is already there, there, but more concentrated. Also, using the ships and the planes that are there to harass. Maybe fly something like the AVG in. Make the Japanese expend planning points, lose transports and pilots and generate fatigue. Most of all, make them take the time to do it honest. [:D] I see. Well, I'm not planning on running away in Burma, but neither am I reinforcing it. I'm fortifying Pegu, Mandalay and Shwebo or whatever its called, but I dont expect that much. Port Blair I'm evacuating, let the Japs have it. Whoever owns Rangoon de facto owns Port Blair far as I can see. I've tried to get in supply but actually found it harder than supplying Singapore... As for the AVG, I know its very tempting to keep them in Burma or send them to Malaya, but I remember in past games that this bit me in the long term. They got used up fighting front line Japanese forces until the good pilots were all dead. And later on, the ROCAF without the AVG in it was completely gutless, letting the Japanese train in China at will. So now I resist temptation, send them to China, and shoot down as many Jap junkers as I can.

John Lansford -> RE: Early Strategy (7/30/2009 7:54:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grollub Speaking of "Sir Robin", found a classic on my drive [;)] [image]local://upfiles/18375/EB4E348541C94B678790852E731873AF.jpg[/image] Heh; I wouldn't run away from her if she beat me with a stick.

stuman -> RE: Early Strategy (8/1/2009 12:02:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford quote: ORIGINAL: Grollub Speaking of "Sir Robin", found a classic on my drive [;)] [image]local://upfiles/18375/EB4E348541C94B678790852E731873AF.jpg[/image] Heh; I wouldn't run away from her if she beat me with a stick. Amen brother.

John Lansford -> RE: Early Strategy (8/1/2009 2:39:47 AM)
I guess I'm having trouble understanding the concept of the off map bases. Karachi currently is under 20k for supplies but all the convoys are coming in from Cape Town and it will be over a year before the Med route opens up. In order to get locally produced supply, do I need to bring fuel to the industrial sites or do I need to send convoys to Karachi so I can then ship it back south to other locales? ISTM that with the Cape Town and Mombasa off map ports, they can ship directly to Ceylon and not worry about Karachi. Is that what everyone is doing?

mjk428 -> RE: Early Strategy (8/1/2009 2:56:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford I guess I'm having trouble understanding the concept of the off map bases. Karachi currently is under 20k for supplies but all the convoys are coming in from Cape Town and it will be over a year before the Med route opens up. In order to get locally produced supply, do I need to bring fuel to the industrial sites or do I need to send convoys to Karachi so I can then ship it back south to other locales? ISTM that with the Cape Town and Mombasa off map ports, they can ship directly to Ceylon and not worry about Karachi. Is that what everyone is doing? I'm only a handful of turns in for AE but in CHS I quickly stopped using Karachi as a dumping point. It's 140 hexes from Cape Town to Karachi. 109 hexes from Cape Town to Columbo. I'll move supply to Columbo but also Chochin just to be prudent. From Aden I'll probably take it to Bombay. Long term I would build up Diego Garcia to 5 Port/5+ Airfield and use that as a supply point.

USSAmerica -> RE: Early Strategy (8/1/2009 3:36:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grollub Speaking of "Sir Robin", found a classic on my drive [;)] [image]local://upfiles/18375/EB4E348541C94B678790852E731873AF.jpg[/image] [sm=innocent0009.gif]

David The Great -> RE: Early Strategy (8/1/2009 4:42:55 PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4SJ0xR2_bQ

stuman -> RE: Early Strategy (8/1/2009 10:06:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David The Great http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4SJ0xR2_bQ I really like that movie.

Grollub -> RE: Early Strategy (8/1/2009 10:17:15 PM)
Agreed. The lyrics is hilarious [:)] (From http://www.elyrics.net/read/m/monty-python-lyrics/brave-sir-robin-lyrics.html) Bravely bold Sir Robin rode forth from Camelot He was not afraid to die, O brave Sir Robin He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp Or to have his eyes gouged out and his elbows broken To have his kneecaps split and his body burned away And all his limbs hacked and mangled, brave Sir Robin His head smashed in and his heart cut out And his liver removed and his bowels unplugged And his nostrils raped and his bottom burnt off and his penis... He is brave Sir Robin, Brave Sir Robin who... To fight and............... Brave Sir Robin ran away Bravely, ran away...away... When danger reared its ugly head He bravely turned his tail and fled Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about And gallantly he chickened out Bravely talking to his feet He beat a very brave retreat Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin

Historiker -> RE: Early Strategy (8/1/2009 10:50:10 PM)
quote: his nostrils raped That's my favorite! [:D]

OldCoot -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 3:10:22 AM)
Two days into Scenario 1, and I'm beginning to get an idea of what I'm going to do. Haven't a clue if it'll work or not, but it should be interesting. South Pacific There's a TF near Canton transporting an artillery brigade, and a couple of BFs to Suva. I'm going to take that guy, dump half the arty bde and a BF at Canton, and put the rest at Baker. Then I'm going to send that TF down to Suva, load the BF and USMC Def Bn there, and take those units to Lugarville. If I can get that done without too much interference from the AI, I'll then have at least some troops all along the Johnston, Palmyra, Baker, Canton, Lugarville, and Noumea line. Then I'll bring in engineers, recon, and whatnot. Southwest Pacific - OZ I'm sending the Gull and Sparrow battalions from Darwin to Port Moresby. As soon as I can get some aircraft down in that part of the world, I'll use LBA from PM, and some other bases to be named later, to hinder any Japanese move in the Solomons. Also, I want to use OZ as a base to get more a/c into the DEI Australia/New Zealand - on the back burner for now India - Ditto China - Where's that? Philippines - Fight to the end Malaya - Ditto Dutch East Indies Here's where I either get cute, or I get burned: I'm going to make a big move in Java. The game started with four Indian brigades at sea on their way to reinforce Burma and Malaya. I have highjacked these, and sent them to Batavia and Soerabaja; In addition, I have sent the B-17s from Davao to Soerabaja; At the last moment, I'll bring out what aircraft I can from Malaya and the PI; I am scouring the Bengal and Indian ports loading whatever supplies I can find and shipping them to Java; The entire Dutch Naval and merchant fleet is on its way to Cape Town to get more; Any troops showing up at Cape Town are Batavia bound. Do I think the AI will let me get away with? Of course not. Before long the KB will come calling, and I'll probably get my fanny whupped. But maybe I'll be able to ding him some along the way. In any case, the only troops I'm losing are either those that would have ended up working on the Burma railway, or those spending their time square bashing in Injah.

stuman -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 3:22:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OldCoot Two days into Scenario 1, and I'm beginning to get an idea of what I'm going to do. Haven't a clue if it'll work or not, but it should be interesting. South Pacific There's a TF near Canton transporting an artillery brigade, and a couple of BFs to Suva. I'm going to take that guy, dump half the arty bde and a BF at Canton, and put the rest at Baker. Then I'm goin to send that TF down to Suva, load the BF and USMC Def Bn there, and take those units to Lugarville. If I can get that done without too much interference from the AI, I'll then have at least some troops all along the Johnston, Palmyra, Baker, Canton, Lugarville, and Noumea line. Then I'll bring in engineers, recon, and whatnot. Southwest Pacific - OZ I'm sending the Gull and Sparrow battalions from Darwin to Port Moresby. As soon as I can get some aircraft down in that part of the world, I'll use LBA from PM, and some other bases to be named later, to hinder any Japanese move in the Solomons. Also, I want to use OZ as a base to get more a/c into the DEI Australia - New Zealand - on the back burner for now India - Ditto China - Where's that? Philippines - Fight to the end Malaya - Ditto Dutch East Indies Here's where I either get cute, or I get burned: I'm going to make a big move in Java. The game started with four Indian brigades at sea on their way to reinforce Burma and Malaya. I have highjacked these, and sent them to Batavia and Soerabaja; In addition, I have sent the B-17s from Davao to Soerabaja; At the last moment, I'll bring out what aircraft I can from Malaya and the PI; I am scouring the Bengal and Indian ports loading whatever supplies I can find and shipping them to Java; The entire Dutch Naval and merchant fleet is on its way to Cape Town to get more; Any troops showing up at Cape Town are Batavia bound. Do I think the AI will let me get away with? Of course not. Before long the KB will come calling, and I'll probably get my fanny whupped. But maybe I'll be able to ding him some along the way. In any case, the only troops I'm losing are either those that would have ended up working on the Burma railway, or those spending their time square bashing in Injah. My only hesitation is that those four brigades, if dumped in the India /Burma border area would eventually be able to help defend or take back Burma. I THINK they will eventually be lost forver in Java. But like you I am only into day 2 ( as Japanese ) so I do not know. But I think if we were playing I would rather you put them into Java this early. Instead of me seeing them 6 months from now. But on the other hand .....if you drop them in Java with a lot of supplies and support, maybe you make me pay too dearly for Java. Hmmm

OldCoot -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 3:31:56 AM)
I figure the Japanese HAVE to get the DEI. That's one of the main reasons they started the war! If I can hang on long enough to transform Java into the world's biggest aircraft carrier, who knows?

treespider -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 3:35:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OldCoot If... Pretty big "If"

stuman -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 3:39:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OldCoot I figure the Japanese HAVE to get the DEI. That's one of the main reasons they started the war! If I can hang on long enough to transform Java into the world's biggest aircraft carrier, who knows? I am guesing a bit here but if you try that ( and I am very interested in what happens ) I have to believe you need to bring a bunch of supplies. And maybe some support. I am not sure if there is enough aviation support already in place to efficiently run a lot of planes out of there. But a lingering battle there could also help to ultimately destroy most of the oil centers. Which I would not like much [:)]

88l71 -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 5:35:30 AM)
Looking at the map on Dec. 8th: Java: Batavia and Soerbaja have size 4 airfields and a max of 7 and both have large ports so they should unload supplies pretty quickly. Soerbaja has a HUGE overabundance of aviation support at the start of the game (has 71+10 w/AV ships and only using 9 of them.) The smaller bases in the area have base forces with various numbers of AV support units.

stuman -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 6:09:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 88l71 Looking at the map on Dec. 8th: Java: Batavia and Soerbaja have size 4 airfields and a max of 7 and both have large ports so they should unload supplies pretty quickly. Soerbaja has a HUGE overabundance of aviation support at the start of the game (has 71+10 w/AV ships and only using 9 of them.) The smaller bases in the area have base forces with various numbers of AV support units. That seems to help then. I just don't know still if I would rather have those brigades in Java, and possibly lose them forever, or retain them for use in Burma. But if both of the oil fields in Java could be destroyed by the resulting , lingering, fighting it could well be worth it.

88l71 -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 7:15:21 AM)
I don't think I would send in extra ground troops to Java - I'd concentrate at Batavia and Soerbaja, fortify as much as possible, and depend on dug in units already there + naval/airpower to hold and inflict damage. Leave a garrisson at Tjilatjap too since it's the only other decent sized base. Would get some P-40's over there ASAP. Make them send in the carriers and BB's if they really want it, then hit 'em where they ain't with the US Navy while they are busy in the DEI. Besides air and naval units are much easier to pull out than LCU's when stuff goes bad. Though I in no way claim to be good at this game.

EUBanana -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 10:03:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OldCoot I figure the Japanese HAVE to get the DEI. That's one of the main reasons they started the war! If I can hang on long enough to transform Java into the world's biggest aircraft carrier, who knows? The problem is, after Singapore has been taken, there is over 1000AV of ground forces there which can be used for a landing. Considerably more, if the Philippines is stripped, and once the Allies are penned up in Bataan/Manila, it can be stripped for a while. So lets say 1500 AV of incoming Japanese. Java is hard to defend because its a long thin strip and the Japs can land anywhere. It's highly likely that you won't be able to concentrate in time, so chances are, those 1500 AV will smash against half of your Java defence. I think the Dutch add up to a bit over a division. You're adding another division. So you probably got about 600-700 AV? Thats a lot, but its not enough, especially when, chances are, it'd be two 300 AV blobs. Thats before touching on the issue of resupply... That said I did reinforce Java with a Hurricane squadron and boy, they really do kick ass. Only very recently have Zeroes been in range, so the Hurricanes have massacred Betties as they try and clear out the shipping. Also the AI has some major issues trying to land on Java it seems, it's too hesitant and doesn't commit nearly enough force. ...So against the AI maybe your plan would work, but against a human, I think it wouldn't. NB: I don't claim to be good at this game either, but I think its a numbers game in this case! When you see the likely Japanese OOB you'll see what I mean...

Fokko -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 10:08:57 AM)
Me to will try to make a stand at Java , bringing in the 18th div. and the black guards. also concentrating the smaller DEI forces and leaving the ones in key bases as Kendari to deny uses as long as possible used the 3 Ind Brig. to re-inforce the southern Indian border. Key to all strategies in DEI/Malaya/Birma is aircover. Only decend group/planes you have is the AVG and in my game against the AI it's barely enough to cover convoy's in and out of Rangoon (Betty's armed with torps even going after HDML's) Got one AKV on the way with Hurricanes from Cape Town , think i will off-load these at Jave before sending them to the frontline. Rest of the fighters are to outdated to make a fist . Also trying to re-inforce Timor with DEI units and Aussies as a buffer for the Northern OZ coast.

88l71 -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 10:19:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EUBanana quote: ORIGINAL: OldCoot I figure the Japanese HAVE to get the DEI. That's one of the main reasons they started the war! If I can hang on long enough to transform Java into the world's biggest aircraft carrier, who knows? The problem is, after Singapore has been taken, there is over 1000AV of ground forces there which can be used for a landing. Considerably more, if the Philippines is stripped, and once the Allies are penned up in Bataan/Manila, it can be stripped for a while. So lets say 1500 AV of incoming Japanese. Java is hard to defend because its a long thin strip and the Japs can land anywhere. It's highly likely that you won't be able to concentrate in time, so chances are, those 1500 AV will smash against half of your Java defence. I think the Dutch add up to a bit over a division. You're adding another division. So you probably got about 600-700 AV? Thats a lot, but its not enough, especially when, chances are, it'd be two 300 AV blobs. Thats before touching on the issue of resupply... That said I did reinforce Java with a Hurricane squadron and boy, they really do kick ass. Only very recently have Zeroes been in range, so the Hurricanes have massacred Betties as they try and clear out the shipping. Also the AI has some major issues trying to land on Java it seems, it's too hesitant and doesn't commit nearly enough force. ...So against the AI maybe your plan would work, but against a human, I think it wouldn't. NB: I don't claim to be good at this game either, but I think its a numbers game in this case! When you see the likely Japanese OOB you'll see what I mean... The Japanese can, in theory, land anywhere, but there are only 3 bases (Batavia, Soerbaja, Tjilitjap) with decent size ports. Everything else is IIRC 0 or 1, and under the new rules, I gather a very bad place to mount a significant amphibious landing, let alone run in supplies. As for me I'd rather not try to seriously hold Java but at least make the Japanese pay as much as possible.

Historiker -> RE: Early Strategy (8/3/2009 11:10:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OldCoot I figure the Japanese HAVE to get the DEI. That's one of the main reasons they started the war! If I can hang on long enough to transform Java into the world's biggest aircraft carrier, who knows? I've tryed that. In a CHS PBEM, I sent everything I got to Java. I even avacuated the Malayan Peninsula, took every possible Australian unit, IIRC I evacuated units from the PI, transfered other DEI units to Java. Maybe I just didn't take all available Indian forces, not sure... Anyway, it was developing really nice! Huge airfields everywhere, my 4es started bombing him and I even managed to sink 3 SS and 5 PC/PG in Belikpapan Harbour by attacking above 30.000ft. THen his invasion came at Kragen. He landed enough to threaten Soerabaja seriously, so I sent the Batavian reserves south. THey met the forces he had left at Kragen and that were blocking the way. I thought this will be a weak brigade or something like this, but there were another 3k AV. I had no chance and not only was batavia lost, every reinforcement was also doomed... Maybe the AI isn't as aggressive, but sending all you have there gives you no security!

Scotters1 -> RE: Early Strategy (8/7/2009 11:08:11 PM)
This thread has been a great help for a newby. Lots of interesting ideas. I have two strategic questions. I'm playing as the allies in the grand campaign against the hard AI. When defending the DEI, should I evacuate the engineers? I read somewhere in these forums that the allies would be short on engineers. I plan on using the forces that are alread in the DEI to defend, concentrate where I can and fortify, but I don't want to hurt myself later in the game if I will be short on engineers. There is a covoy of transports on its way to Signapore with reinforcements. Should I allow this force to continue, or reroute it? Will those troops just eat up supply faster and doom Signapore to a quicker death? If I reroute, is the Burma area a good spot. Maybe I'll land them in Chittagong, north of Rangoon, and then have them march South to defend Rangoon. Anything other basic first move strategies in the DEI, Burma, Oz area that a newby should know about?

mjk428 -> RE: Early Strategy (8/8/2009 2:46:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Scotters1976 This thread has been a great help for a newby. Lots of interesting ideas. I have two strategic questions. I'm playing as the allies in the grand campaign against the hard AI. When defending the DEI, should I evacuate the engineers? I read somewhere in these forums that the allies would be short on engineers. I plan on using the forces that are alread in the DEI to defend, concentrate where I can and fortify, but I don't want to hurt myself later in the game if I will be short on engineers. There is a covoy of transports on its way to Signapore with reinforcements. Should I allow this force to continue, or reroute it? Will those troops just eat up supply faster and doom Signapore to a quicker death? If I reroute, is the Burma area a good spot. Maybe I'll land them in Chittagong, north of Rangoon, and then have them march South to defend Rangoon. Anything other basic first move strategies in the DEI, Burma, Oz area that a newby should know about? I've got 99% of the Dutch engineers increasing fort levels at the bases I've consolidated combat units in. There really isn't a need to move them elsewhere and many can't be changed anyway. I did buy a couple of tiny base forces and moved them elsewhere to support float plane bases with only 3 or 4 air support points. Batavia is now a non-malaria hex in AE and that's where the overwhelming bulk will be fortifying. I can't in good conscience send troops to Singapore. It's not going to hold out anyway. The best they could do is postpone things by a week or two and its a long war with time on the Allies side. Others may see the honest value in sending troops into a bag that will ultimately surrender but I don't. Combat formations are the most finite of resources from my POV. Burma is the better choice but I've been burned in Burma too many times. I sent them to Calcutta where they could rebuild their disabled units. Again in a non-malaria hex. Better that they refit and train for when I can do something with them at full strength. I'm not bugging out of Burma but I'm not committing anything further either. I'm hoping to be able to fight an organized withdrawal while holding out the possibility of an end around if the Imperial Army overcommits and leaves Moulmein and Tavoy lightly defended. Then land behind them and cut off their supply. I'll need a CV or three for that. Of course my cunning plan is not likely to survive past first contact. :) BTW, Manila is also a non-malaria hex. As you can see, that's important to me - WitP: The Struggle Against Mosquitos. They're more dangerous than the Japanese!

Chickenboy -> RE: Early Strategy (8/8/2009 4:09:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 In WitP my early strategy as the Allies (eventually) boiled down to this: 1) Build a string of bases from PH to Oz to secure supply convoys 2) Bug out of Burma because whatever is there will just be steamrolled in 1 or 2 days. 3) Withdraw Base Forces from DEI and move them to OZ because few Australians are willing to maintain AC. 4) Consolodate remaining strength in DEI @ Soerabaja because it's a malaria oasis. 5) Stay indoors in the Great White North until spring. It's just too cold to be building runways. 6) Ignore China. I'm hopeful that 2, 3 & 4 will no longer pay off so well. Any tips on old habits that can now be cast aside? I'm no developer, and only into my grand AE campaign of a couple weeks, so please take this advice with a grain of salt... It seems as though many aspects of combat, movement, supply and the overall pace of the campaign are more realistically paced in AE versus WITP. So, with that in mind, I have greater hopes of surviving in "Fortress Java" for example. I'm not leaving Burma without a fight. Similarly, I'm fighting it out in Manila (city bonus!) and Singapore till the bitter end. I have a nearly clean slate of expectations about the status quo of AE. Ain't love grand? Number 4 ain't gonna work for sure in AE. In Java, Soerbaja is malarial whilest Malang and Batavia are temperate.

Scotters1 -> RE: Early Strategy (8/9/2009 1:37:06 PM)
Keep in mind Chickenboy that Manila is light urban, not heavy urban, but I too plan to defend Manila and Clark Field. As for Malaria, according to the manual, bases reduce the effect of Malaria zones, so wouldn't mjk's strategy of defending Soerabaja be ok? Mjk, how do you buy base forces? I couldn't find that in the manual.

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