Ship repairs (Full Version)

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Speedysteve -> Ship repairs (7/30/2009 9:47:19 AM)

Hi all,

In short the Shipyard is still the best for repairing and preventing heavily damaged ships from sinking?

In terms of Repair ships - I've noticed ports will allow you to place unlimited ships for repair with repair ships? I assume though a repair ship can only work on 1 ship at a time? Also how dies it assign them? Say I have an ARD and an AR would they both work on a heavily damaged ship if I selected Repair Ship as the type?

Thirdly Pierside - I've noticed that you can put unlimited ships into Pierside repair. Is this the case? Or is there a limit based on something?

Lastly - prioitising a ship repair - if I say prioritised a badly damaged BB over 2 other heavily damaged BB's in Shipyard repair would the others receive no repair at all?



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 11:39:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi all,

In short the Shipyard is still the best for repairing and preventing heavily damaged ships from sinking?

In terms of Repair ships - I've noticed ports will allow you to place unlimited ships for repair with repair ships? I assume though a repair ship can only work on 1 ship at a time? Also how dies it assign them? Say I have an ARD and an AR would they both work on a heavily damaged ship if I selected Repair Ship as the type?

Thirdly Pierside - I've noticed that you can put unlimited ships into Pierside repair. Is this the case? Or is there a limit based on something?

Lastly - prioitising a ship repair - if I say prioritised a badly damaged BB over 2 other heavily damaged BB's in Shipyard repair would the others receive no repair at all?


First, for all repair methods you can assign more ships than the facilities can handle. The repair processor will queue them up and work on them, based on priorities that you define or ones it uses by default (basically, big ships first).

If you prioritize a given ship it gets more repair but uses more of the available repair ability. It think the factors are in the manual. Anyway, if there is anything left after the high priority ship gets its cut, other ships can get some too.



John Lansford -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 11:42:16 AM)

On Turn One I decided to put both Warspite and Colorado in to Seattle's shipyard since it had a 200,000 ton capacity and I wanted them fixed quickly.  Colorado went in first, and generated a 19 day turnaround time.  Then I put Warspite in, and Colorado's repair time jumped up to 25 days.

The two ships together weren't anywhere close to Seattle's capacity, so why did Colorado jump up in time just because Warspite was in the shipyard at the same time?



Speedysteve -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 11:47:06 AM)

Thanks Don.

How does Pierside work though? As I can't see in the manual that any limit is applied to the number of ships allowed for Pierside repair? For Repair how do you know how many Ops points will be used on a particular ship?



Terminus -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 11:48:07 AM)

Pierside is linked to the port's docking capacity. If you can tie up any more ships alongside, you can repair them.



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 12:01:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Thanks Don.

How does Pierside work though? As I can't see in the manual that any limit is applied to the number of ships allowed for Pierside repair? For Repair how do you know how many Ops points will be used on a particular ship?


Repair "ops points" used for each repair method depend on the type and amount of damage being repaired. Number of available ops points available for pierside depends on size of port.



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 12:04:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

On Turn One I decided to put both Warspite and Colorado in to Seattle's shipyard since it had a 200,000 ton capacity and I wanted them fixed quickly.  Colorado went in first, and generated a 19 day turnaround time.  Then I put Warspite in, and Colorado's repair time jumped up to 25 days.

The two ships together weren't anywhere close to Seattle's capacity, so why did Colorado jump up in time just because Warspite was in the shipyard at the same time?


If a shipyard is under-utilized it will assign unused resources to the ships in the yard. More ships = extra resources spread thinner.

The repair processor makes a lot of decisions and attempts to do the best job it can. You don't have to minutely control the details unless you want to.



Speedysteve -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 12:14:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Pierside is linked to the port's docking capacity. If you can tie up any more ships alongside, you can repair them.


So if it lets me add ships to pierside there's room?



Speedysteve -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 12:16:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

On Turn One I decided to put both Warspite and Colorado in to Seattle's shipyard since it had a 200,000 ton capacity and I wanted them fixed quickly.  Colorado went in first, and generated a 19 day turnaround time.  Then I put Warspite in, and Colorado's repair time jumped up to 25 days.

The two ships together weren't anywhere close to Seattle's capacity, so why did Colorado jump up in time just because Warspite was in the shipyard at the same time?


If a shipyard is under-utilized it will assign unused resources to the ships in the yard. More ships = extra resources spread thinner.

The repair processor makes a lot of decisions and attempts to do the best job it can. You don't have to minutely control the details unless you want to.


Interesting. So if I just left it ships would be assigned automatically?



John Lansford -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 12:22:50 PM)

I've noticed that badly damaged ships reaching a port are automatically put in the repair list.  Renown staggered into Singapore with 80 Flotation damage and when I looked in the port listing she wasn't there.  I panicked thinking she sank at the harbor entrance but when I checked the repair routine there she was.

Re: Warspite/Colorado; I figured since both ships combined weren't anywhere near the shipyard's capacity that adding another ship (both at normal repair rate) would not change the estimated time to completion for either one.  If one was at high or critical priority I can see the times changing, but with both of them at normal?



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 12:35:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've noticed that badly damaged ships reaching a port are automatically put in the repair list.  Renown staggered into Singapore with 80 Flotation damage and when I looked in the port listing she wasn't there.  I panicked thinking she sank at the harbor entrance but when I checked the repair routine there she was.


I'll look.



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 12:36:41 PM)


1. If there are LESS ships assigned to a repair method than the repair method's capacity, the repair method will speed up repairs on those ships by assigning the left over resource. I think this is all methods but it is in shipyards for sure.

2. If there are MORE ships assigned to a repair method it will process what it can each turn and queue up the rest.




John Lansford -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 12:58:32 PM)

So if there's only one ship to work on in a shipyard it gets their full attention, and additional ships force them to divert resources to the others; is that how it works?  I figured if there were two 32,000 ton ships in a 200,000 ton capacity shipyard that BOTH could get the shipyard's full attention without hurting the schedule of either one.



Barb -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 1:07:00 PM)

Say you have 1000 workers in the port. Damaged ship limp in. You surely cannot appoint all those workers aboard!! But say 600 of them could work on it. Other 400 play cards in barracks.... 2nd damaged ships got in. Well you will split those 1000 workers to 500 and 500.



Andrew Brown -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 1:37:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

So if there's only one ship to work on in a shipyard it gets their full attention, and additional ships force them to divert resources to the others; is that how it works?  I figured if there were two 32,000 ton ships in a 200,000 ton capacity shipyard that BOTH could get the shipyard's full attention without hurting the schedule of either one.


The limitation of a repair shipyard is not just physical size, but workers. Thik of it this way: if a large repair yard has only one ship present, taking up one third of the yard space, that doesn't mean that only one third of the workers work on that ship, while the other two thirds sit around playing cards. They would all pitch in to their maximum capability. Later, if a second ship comes in, the workers would divide their efforts accordingly.

That is the way I see it anyway.

Andrew



Andrew Brown -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 1:38:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Say you have 1000 workers in the port. Damaged ship limp in. You surely cannot appoint all those workers aboard!! But say 600 of them could work on it. Other 400 play cards in barracks.... 2nd damaged ships got in. Well you will split those 1000 workers to 500 and 500.


You beat me with the "playing cards" line! [:)]




Don Bowen -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 1:40:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Say you have 1000 workers in the port. Damaged ship limp in. You surely cannot appoint all those workers aboard!! But say 600 of them could work on it. Other 400 play cards in barracks.... 2nd damaged ships got in. Well you will split those 1000 workers to 500 and 500.


Much too detail. We're surely not going to count workers and we have no data to support the result if we did. Repair facilities have differing levels of repair based on player-set priorities and Repair Processor calculated "spare" capacity. It there is spare, the processor will use it as best it can. More spare = faster repair, more ships = spare capacity spread thinner.

If you want to equate this to real shipyard processing: the repair shops have more time to work on parts for each ship, cranes are available when needed and not busy elsewhere. Welders are standing by on call. The lunch wagon puts on extra hot coffee.

Best I can do.



dr. smith -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 2:59:37 PM)

Semi-related: if  a ship is doing Pierside repair, wouldn't that impact Cargo on/offloading ability?  i.e. smoking hulk taking up pier space.

After filling Shipyard to capacity, assigned ship to Pierside repair, checked Port, still said nobody docked on pier.



JWE -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 3:13:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr. smith
Semi-related: if  a ship is doing Pierside repair, wouldn't that impact Cargo on/offloading ability?  i.e. smoking hulk taking up pier space.

After filling Shipyard to capacity, assigned ship to Pierside repair, checked Port, still said nobody docked on pier.

Technically, they should take up some dock space. But doing that would have made it way too extreme. So, they don't. It's basically a dock freebie.

Think of it as maybe 'service' docks, or tied to a mooring with floating repair lighters, or hard up by a mole, something like that.



DrewMatrix -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 3:19:21 PM)

I thought the repair routine was excellent. And more than that I thought the interface was excellent. I can see what efffect adding another ship to shipyard or pierside will have on the whole flow of repairs to all ships. This visibility (I guess "having the guy running the repair yard give you an estimate of turnaround time) made things a lot easier to understand. I wouldn't have wanted to set up 6 games and test repairing different ways to learn by doing.



dr. smith -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 3:37:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr. smith
Semi-related: if  a ship is doing Pierside repair, wouldn't that impact Cargo on/offloading ability?  i.e. smoking hulk taking up pier space.

After filling Shipyard to capacity, assigned ship to Pierside repair, checked Port, still said nobody docked on pier.

Technically, they should take up some dock space. But doing that would have made it way too extreme. So, they don't. It's basically a dock freebie.

Think of it as maybe 'service' docks, or tied to a mooring with floating repair lighters, or hard up by a mole, something like that.

Sounds good, thanks!



Gilgawath1 -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 4:13:59 PM)

Not sure if this is the right place to post but the topic seems right.

Trying to figure out ship repair the manual says that an undamaged size 6 port produces 51 Port rapair assist points (The table on page 239 says 63, which is correct) is this per ship or total for all ships?

Sorry if this has already been discussed but, just sneeking a look at manual and a cuppa in between honey do list.

Tony



JWE -> RE: Ship repairs (7/30/2009 5:31:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anorean
Not sure if this is the right place to post but the topic seems right.

Trying to figure out ship repair the manual says that an undamaged size 6 port produces 51 Port rapair assist points (The table on page 239 says 63, which is correct) is this per ship or total for all ships?

Sorry if this has already been discussed but, just sneeking a look at manual and a cuppa in between honey do list.

Tony

Hello, Tony. The Table is correct.

And it's 'kinda sorta' per ship and also 'kinda sorta' for multiple ships. The Port Assist Ops Points determine how many ships get the (for example, 63) Repair Assist Points. You apply the 63 (and can fix .63 damage) to everybody you can till the ops points run out. See Manual Section 14.2.3.8 Port Assist Ops



mjk428 -> RE: Ship repairs (8/2/2009 9:08:23 PM)

I recently had a ship sink in port and I'm not sure if it was a Catastrophic Event or my own cluelessness that was at fault. I have the saved games if needed.

AO Neosho took a torpedo on the way to Lahaina (Port: 4). She removed herself from the task force and disbanded automatically into port. Had some serious damage but looked to be OK. There was also an AR ship in her TF and so I put that into port as well. I tried to do the "manage ships under repair" routine but no joy.

I figured the port was too small and just left the AR in port with Neosho to manage the repairs the old way. Two days later Neosho's fire level went from 13 to 63 and sys damage from 68 to 97. The next turn she sunk.

So was there something I could have done?

Is there the something the other ships, port personnel and the AR should have done automatically but didn't?

I initially chalked it up to the fortunes of war but it's been bugging me that maybe I missed something.



Don Bowen -> RE: Ship repairs (8/2/2009 9:22:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

I recently had a ship sink in port and I'm not sure if it was a Catastrophic Event or my own cluelessness that was at fault. I have the saved games if needed.

AO Neosho took a torpedo on the way to Lahaina (Port: 4). She removed herself from the task force and disbanded automatically into port. Had some serious damage but looked to be OK. There was also an AR ship in her TF and so I put that into port as well. I tried to do the "manage ships under repair" routine but no joy.

I figured the port was too small and just left the AR in port with Neosho to manage the repairs the old way. Two days later Neosho's fire level went from 13 to 63 and sys damage from 68 to 97. The next turn she sunk.

So was there something I could have done?

Is there the something the other ships, port personnel and the AR should have done automatically but didn't?

I initially chalked it up to the fortunes of war but it's been bugging me that maybe I missed something.



If she was on fire she would not be allowed next to the repair ship. Port and/or naval support would help with the fire fighting. For a small fire to get out of control usually requires a very low crew experience or a catastrophic event. Events are in your ops report.



John Lansford -> RE: Ship repairs (8/2/2009 10:15:57 PM)

I find the new repair routines both much more flexible and more intuitive to use than the WitP abstracted repair process.  The shipyard can repair anything and does the best job of any option at a port, but has a limited capacity to handle ships.  Pierside is usually 2nd best and I often use it to repair minor flotation and engine damage to get a ship ready for a journey somewhere else.  You can cycle through readiness, pierside, repair ship and shipyard and see how long each will take to complete repairs before selecting one.

Even having a small shipyard available, like the ones at Surabaya and Manila, is so useful when a ship pulls in with moderate system damage or the loss of a critical component.  They can often fix the damage within a week and if it's just system damage can often fix that in even less time.



mjk428 -> RE: Ship repairs (8/2/2009 11:06:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

I recently had a ship sink in port and I'm not sure if it was a Catastrophic Event or my own cluelessness that was at fault. I have the saved games if needed.

AO Neosho took a torpedo on the way to Lahaina (Port: 4). She removed herself from the task force and disbanded automatically into port. Had some serious damage but looked to be OK. There was also an AR ship in her TF and so I put that into port as well. I tried to do the "manage ships under repair" routine but no joy.

I figured the port was too small and just left the AR in port with Neosho to manage the repairs the old way. Two days later Neosho's fire level went from 13 to 63 and sys damage from 68 to 97. The next turn she sunk.

So was there something I could have done?

Is there the something the other ships, port personnel and the AR should have done automatically but didn't?

I initially chalked it up to the fortunes of war but it's been bugging me that maybe I missed something.



If she was on fire she would not be allowed next to the repair ship. Port and/or naval support would help with the fire fighting. For a small fire to get out of control usually requires a very low crew experience or a catastrophic event. Events are in your ops report.


The mystery deepens. I assumed it was a torp that was responsible but somehow she took a hit from a 60kg bomb on her way out of Pearl.

I also went through every report again (Ops, Combat) and this is the only mention of Neosho: "AO Neosho has spotted a Japanese Carrier Aircraft at 182,108" Apparently the 60kg bomb knocked out further communication. Or maybe it killed everyone and the Ghost Ship docked herself. :)

The Allies are still refusing to admit her loss. Probably embarrassed that the port of Lahaina performed so miserably compared to how the crew of Neosho would have managed all alone in the Coral Sea.

quote:

Next day at 10:00, Japanese aircraft spotted the two ships, and believing them to be a carrier and her escort, launched the first of two attacks which sank Sims and left Neosho, victim of seven direct hits and a suicide dive by one of the bombers, ablaze aft and in danger of breaking in two. She had shot down at least three of the attackers. One of her crewmen, Oscar V. Peterson, was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for his efforts to save the ship in spite of his severe injuries suffered in the attack.

Superb seamanship and skilled damage control work kept Neosho afloat for the next four days. The sorely stricken ship was first located by an RAAF aircraft, then an American PBY Catalina. At 13:00, 11 May, USS Henley arrived to rescue the 123 survivors and to sink by gunfire, the ship they had so valiantly kept alive against impossible odds.


Anyway, it makes sense that you can't repair a ship that is still on fire. So where can I requisition some fireboats?



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