Allied strategy - 1st half year

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wpurdom -> Allied strategy - 1st half year (1/17/2010 3:56:11 PM)
In reading a number of AAR's, I'm wondering whether the cold, objective Allied strategy (outside China) for the first 6 months should be a complete Sir Robin outside of Hawaii, New Zealand, Cooktown-Geraldton, India frontier, aside from the occasion ambush with unimportant assets or by CV's when you're very sure KB is far away. (Since I haven't been able to participate in a PBEM, I'm wanting an inside retrospective analysis.) Specifically: 1. PULL BACK any land assets you can, 2. Don't engage in prolonged fighter contests where the IJ player can sweep unless you have Hurricanes for high altitude cover available - otherwise either bring your fighters forward for an ambush or keep them grounded most of the time and unpredictably rise to engage ocassionally, ala Speedy; in AE with the reduced Allied AF, it's not clear to me that attrition (outside of CV pilots) serves Allied purposes before mid-43 - on the other hand if you don't fight at all, you won't have 1st class pilots to speed up pilot training) 3. use surface forces for rare ambushes where you're not committed to sticking around - LBA support being largely illusionary or ephemeral in this phase; 4. mostly lurk and train your CV's unless there is a good target, you're sure that KB is far away, and you have LBA parity in the area for a while; 5. train your forces and move supplies. Very boring, but can John Paul Jones' slogan be successfully applied against a IJ player of equal competence in the first six months: "he who does not dare cannot win"? In other words, should the Allied player, train, move supplies, and lurk until late 42 or the Japanese player overcommits too far from home (clear signs of victory disease on the map)?

Central Blue -> RE: Allied strategy - 1st half year (1/17/2010 6:25:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wpurdom In reading a number of AAR's, I'm wondering whether the cold, objective Allied strategy (outside China) for the first 6 months should be a complete Sir Robin outside of Hawaii, New Zealand, Cooktown-Geraldton, India frontier, aside from the occasion ambush with unimportant assets or by CV's when you're very sure KB is far away. (Since I haven't been able to participate in a PBEM, I'm wanting an inside retrospective analysis.) Specifically: 1. PULL BACK any land assets you can, 2. Don't engage in prolonged fighter contests where the IJ player can sweep unless you have Hurricanes for high altitude cover available - otherwise either bring your fighters forward for an ambush or keep them grounded most of the time and unpredictably rise to engage ocassionally, ala Speedy; in AE with the reduced Allied AF, it's not clear to me that attrition (outside of CV pilots) serves Allied purposes before mid-43 - on the other hand if you don't fight at all, you won't have 1st class pilots to speed up pilot training) 3. use surface forces for rare ambushes where you're not committed to sticking around - LBA support being largely illusionary or ephemeral in this phase; 4. mostly lurk and train your CV's unless there is a good target, you're sure that KB is far away, and you have LBA parity in the area for a while; 5. train your forces and move supplies. Very boring, but can John Paul Jones' slogan be successfully applied against a IJ player of equal competence in the first six months: "he who does not dare cannot win"? In other words, should the Allied player, train, move supplies, and lurk until late 42 or the Japanese player overcommits too far from home (clear signs of victory disease on the map)? Use the WWII slang "bug out" and you'll feel better. [:D] Of course you can get a debate about Singapore and DEI, because for the most part there wasn't a wholesale bug out there. But the rest of your comments would generally be supported by the official histories on line at ibiblio.org regardless of what other historians say about what the Allies coulda, shoulda, done. Seems to me that most competent JFB's won't even give you the historical 1942 successes like Port Moresby, Milne Bay, or Guadalcanal/Tulagi.

aztez -> RE: Allied strategy - 1st half year (1/17/2010 7:21:28 PM)
wpurdom: I bet these are questions everyone who jump into as action as commander faces. I will try to answer these on my personal views of the game. All in all it boils to your opponent strategy and to be honest pure luck! An lucky hit or two on his carriers and it is whole new game after that. 1. That might be a bit too radical decision. You really need to fight it out somewhere. Where and when well that is down to the developments of the game. There are places where japanese will come and you just pick an spot or two. These units will be lost for good but if you just back off that will spell disaster in the longrun. 2. The ambush should your main strategy. I don't know whether or not Hurricanes are the "early war Corsairs" though. Personally I have had mixed bag with using them in the AE. Whether ot not commit your airforce into duels depends on grand strategic situation. You might want duke it out in order to ease up pressure elsewhere. This was the main goal for me when I have fought in Burma. Whether or not it has done any good is hard to say. At least he really isn't short of aircraft that is for sure. Other thing is that you might want to read those threads in the main forum regarding japanese pilot quality. If those assumptions are correct regarding the training/experķence than the allies might get short end of the stick later on. I cannot say for sure since the better fighters have yet to arrive. When you commit into battles make sure you bring in a lot firepower though! 3. I agree on this. You can pull off some landing interceptions which can be good. The 1st rule though would be not to commit unless you have lba or carrier fighter protection in the area. I have managed couple of interceptions than again lost couple of gambles. Most notably near Noumea. 4. Basically yes. The main thing is to keep your carriers safe until you can gather them together. I lost two of them and prize has been deep. I would suggest that you think about bringing the RN ones up there too with US carriers. It can add crucial punch. Also would suggest that check that each TF gets best AAA fire available via destroyers. Keep them "together" in 40 mile hex but put them in separate TF's if possible. It will bring the total ships needed up but gives you better protection in many ways. It depends though how willingly you should commit them into action. Eitherway you choose to do brings it own gains and disadvantages. This is an pure judgement call on the players part. You will need to keep them together though and it might be wise change some additional fighters into them too. Marine squadrons are able provide extra CAP. 5. Definately train your air squadrons and change poorest ground unit leaders out. Also really put a lot of efforts into your submarines. They are much more lethal now with the AE. Oh, and unless you are not skip bombing 100 feet your normal lba bombers do not hit anything when flying againts ships. Hope that helps.. there are propably as many answers as there are players on these questions. It is an diffrent game when you start to play PBEM though. There are no preplanned "AI scripts" which you can spot. Central Blue: Bug Out = Sir Robin. That is definately "slang" there. [:D] The PBEM is grand scales "If and hindsight" generator. I would be an rich if I would get few bucks everytime I have second guessed my decions in this game. I think Singapore is waste of time to reinforce but DEI might be not. It depends how swiftly the opponent is moving towards the kill. As for the JFB's advance I'am not qualified to answer but the "victory moments" in 1942's are few and far between for the allied side unless your opponent gets careless.

LoBaron -> RE: Allied strategy - 1st half year (1/18/2010 7:58:52 AM)
Aztez there were some replies about erstad having victory disease or losing focus. These comments were mainly directed at him showing up at Perth but also his large scale operations in the Aleuthians. I have my second thoughts about this conclusion. While the cost/benefit of the Aleuthian operation can be discussed I think it does have a focus. When taking a look at Canorebels“ AAR, which is very educative, it shows how the ownership of the Aleuthians can tip the balance of any operation directed at the Kuriles. As a Japanese player id do very much, leaning to nearly everything, to keep the Allies out of there or push them out. This is a much easier task when you don“t have to fear LBA, short range naval and ground reinforcements from the Alaske-Aleuthian line. If this is the intention then he definitely is not running wild but setting up his perimeter defenses and this only makes sense if he also uses other assets to strengthen his othere defenses where he is most vulnerable. Just a wild guess but this operation could have two effects: he drew your forces where he sees them and fights it out there (admittedly with high losses he can“t sustain over a time) far away from the home islands, but this makes his reinforcement fleets free to roam the pacific, stacking all the strategic islands with defenders and maybe other areas that are less obvious. I don“t know if this can be confirmed but if yes, then this could delay the Allied advance seriousely. Btw. what are your CV“s doing? [;)]

aztez -> RE: November 1942 (1/18/2010 2:56:37 PM)
LoBaron: I also read about Canoebrels adventure into Kuriles. I bet Dave has too and thus decieded to create an "buffer zone" in the north. Those airfields can be very valuable in the Kuriles and I haven't abandoned any plans towards them yet. Keeping my options open as it is the wise thing to do. I have send in additional troops but the main force remains elsewhere. I have now pretty much secured the rest of Alaska than again he did capture quite a few nice bases there. I don't know how many aircraft we lost and how many ships has been sunk/damaged but this was an carnage for sure. My carriers are repairing. CV Wasp just entered WC for extensive repairs but the others are operational within couple of weeks time. I also have few CVE's that can add to the CAP provided.

aztez -> RE: November 1942 (1/18/2010 2:57:34 PM)
China (november 14th - 17th 1942) I have decieded to bring in additional fighter cover from US and India. His bombers has been bombing my troops in the south pretty much as they have wanted. Last turn some Wildcat fighters along with P38F's intervened. The losses were pretty much equal but the effects at Kweiyang were minimized since quite a few bombers turned away. That was an good thing since we did engage into heavy duels south of Kweiyang. I was expecting this assault and it was yet another blood bath. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 75,50 Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 136091 troops, 1242 guns, 909 vehicles, Assault Value = 5104 Defending force 117632 troops, 737 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4035 Japanese adjusted assault: 1721 Allied adjusted defense: 6547 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 12005 casualties reported Squads: 171 destroyed, 720 disabled Non Combat: 41 destroyed, 848 disabled Engineers: 2 destroyed, 76 disabled Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled) Vehicles lost 194 (5 destroyed, 189 disabled) Allied ground losses: 6536 casualties reported Squads: 135 destroyed, 253 disabled Non Combat: 132 destroyed, 383 disabled Engineers: 3 destroyed, 12 disabled Guns lost 3 (0 destroyed, 3 disabled) Assaulting units: 58th Infantry Brigade 39th Division 8th Recon Regiment 37th Division 13th Indpt Infantry Regiment 11th Indpt Infantry Regiment 5th Tank Regiment 51st Recon Regiment 13th Tank Regiment 6th Division 41st Division 12th Indpt Infantry Regiment 12th Tank Regiment 17th/A Division 2nd Ind.Mixed Regiment 110th Division 35th Division 10th Tank Regiment 12th Ind.Mixed Brigade 26th Recon Regiment 104th Division 40th Division 17th/B Division North China Area Army 2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 4th Mortar Battalion 21st Mortar Battalion 5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion 15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment 5th RF Gun Battalion Defending units: 52nd Chinese/B Corps 92nd Chinese Corps 79th Chinese/B Corps 28th Chinese Corps 52nd Chinese/C Corps 10th Chinese Corps 36th Chinese Corps 37th Chinese Corps 85th Chinese Corps 16th Chinese Corps 94th Chinese Corps 46th Chinese Corps 39th New Chinese Division 79th Chinese/A Corps 8th Route Army 40th Chinese Corps 53rd Chinese Corps 76th Chinese Corps 4th Chinese Corps 72nd Chinese Corps 64th Chinese Corps 14th Chinese Corps 20th Chinese Corps 60th Chinese/B Corps 11th Group Army 9th Group Army 4th War Area 35th Group Army ...that ought to have hurt him again. He has now launched two assaults here which have ended up 1:3 odds to the chinese which is nice. The bonus being that the experience levels are rising drastically with these victories. Oh, I doubt he will just withdraw here either. The good thing is that I have nice reserves and other parts of the new defensive perimeter is heavily defended. Few units are at Chungking taking replacements and will be ready for action soon enough. Oh, and last turn I was able to enter the hex near Kweiyang and now it again shows "no destination" set. Annoying little feature this is. [image]local://upfiles/15617/7C840E2BDECD4330B43F329C15D3F51A.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: November 1942 (1/18/2010 2:58:26 PM)
Submarine warfare (november 14th - 17th 1942) Here is an detailed map showing US submarine action from the past 4 days. We managed to hit few ships which adds up. [image]local://upfiles/15617/F777802AF51447CB9141048722E59292.jpg[/image]

crsutton -> RE: Allied strategy - 1st half year (1/18/2010 7:33:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wpurdom In reading a number of AAR's, I'm wondering whether the cold, objective Allied strategy (outside China) for the first 6 months should be a complete Sir Robin outside of Hawaii, New Zealand, Cooktown-Geraldton, India frontier, aside from the occasion ambush with unimportant assets or by CV's when you're very sure KB is far away. (Since I haven't been able to participate in a PBEM, I'm wanting an inside retrospective analysis.) Specifically: 1. PULL BACK any land assets you can, 2. Don't engage in prolonged fighter contests where the IJ player can sweep unless you have Hurricanes for high altitude cover available - otherwise either bring your fighters forward for an ambush or keep them grounded most of the time and unpredictably rise to engage ocassionally, ala Speedy; in AE with the reduced Allied AF, it's not clear to me that attrition (outside of CV pilots) serves Allied purposes before mid-43 - on the other hand if you don't fight at all, you won't have 1st class pilots to speed up pilot training) 3. use surface forces for rare ambushes where you're not committed to sticking around - LBA support being largely illusionary or ephemeral in this phase; 4. mostly lurk and train your CV's unless there is a good target, you're sure that KB is far away, and you have LBA parity in the area for a while; 5. train your forces and move supplies. Very boring, but can John Paul Jones' slogan be successfully applied against a IJ player of equal competence in the first six months: "he who does not dare cannot win"? In other words, should the Allied player, train, move supplies, and lurk until late 42 or the Japanese player overcommits too far from home (clear signs of victory disease on the map)? For the most part, yes. Here is my take. 1. No, except for a few select unit, the rest stay and fight. Most of the front line units are low quality. You will not lose the game by losing them. I hold every little base and try to delay in land campaigns. Time is his enemy and you must use your cheap expendable front line units to force him to expend resources and time. Does not mean you can't be creative though. 2. Yep, no way the Allies can win an attrition battle in the air until late 42. Train, train, train. Ambush when he gets careless. 3. As an old poker player there is just one rule. "Never gamble more than you can afford to lose". 4. Yep, and double yep. There are so many things working against your carriers. (No torpedo plane, unskilled pilots, coordination penalty, insufficent AA), lack of escort in early 42 that you want to avoid a big carrier fight. Not to mention uber deadly Japanese subs. I don't care what the potential reward, I don't risk them unless I am certain KB is not in the area, and then I don't risk them much. If your carrier force is intact and hidden, then the IJN player is limited to large single operations because he will need all of KB to cover them. Once again, you are buying time. Lose two or three carriers early and Japan can pull off multiple invasions. 5 Yep And 6. There are always exceptions. ("Bluff once and get caught, then never bluff again" Amarillo Slim)

cfulbright -> RE: November 1942 (1/19/2010 5:50:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar BTW, the dive bomber altitude settings from michaelm (who is dev and code wrangler anyway) may be helpful: Mission: Bombing A/c type: DB (1) Group altitude: 10-15K A/c are treated as if performing a diving attack (2) Group altitude: 16-19K A/c are treated as if performing a glide attack (3) Group altitude: <1K A/c are treated as if performing a low level attack (4) Group altitude: 20+ or 1-9K A/c are treated as if performing a normal horizontal attack Is this true that if you set divebombers to 19K or 26K, they're doing horizontal bombing? That's "whack" as my kids say. Can someone confirm this?

Grollub -> RE: November 1942 (1/19/2010 6:03:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cfulbright quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar BTW, the dive bomber altitude settings from michaelm (who is dev and code wrangler anyway) may be helpful: Mission: Bombing A/c type: DB (1) Group altitude: 10-15K A/c are treated as if performing a diving attack (2) Group altitude: 16-19K A/c are treated as if performing a glide attack (3) Group altitude: <1K A/c are treated as if performing a low level attack (4) Group altitude: 20+ or 1-9K A/c are treated as if performing a normal horizontal attack Is this true that if you set divebombers to 19K or 26K, they're doing horizontal bombing? That's "whack" as my kids say. Can someone confirm this? As the post above states; Divebomber at 19K - It makes glide attack. Divebomber at 26K - It makes a horizontal attack. I don't know what more confirmation you need - as Sardaukar said, this is from the mouth of the dev michaelm (in this thread).

Rob Brennan UK -> RE: November 1942 (1/19/2010 8:01:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grollub quote: ORIGINAL: cfulbright quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar BTW, the dive bomber altitude settings from michaelm (who is dev and code wrangler anyway) may be helpful: Mission: Bombing A/c type: DB (1) Group altitude: 10-15K A/c are treated as if performing a diving attack (2) Group altitude: 16-19K A/c are treated as if performing a glide attack (3) Group altitude: <1K A/c are treated as if performing a low level attack (4) Group altitude: 20+ or 1-9K A/c are treated as if performing a normal horizontal attack Is this true that if you set divebombers to 19K or 26K, they're doing horizontal bombing? That's "whack" as my kids say. Can someone confirm this? As the post above states; Divebomber at 19K - It makes glide attack. Divebomber at 26K - It makes a horizontal attack. I don't know what more confirmation you need - as Sardaukar said, this is from the mouth of the dev michaelm (in this thread). Its actually v v useful as DB's take a lot of flak damage against well defended bases, at least you can use them up high to avoid flak and not lose valuable pilots and planes while getting some exp. Same with Vals but even more so as they don't have armour.

cfulbright -> RE: November 1942 (1/19/2010 9:55:36 PM)
Rob - thanks, I guess there's some sense in that. It also explains why my Hornet SBD's weren't doing very well against AKL's. I'll have to fix that right away. Was it like this in original WITP, or is this a new development in AE?

crsutton -> RE: November 1942 (1/19/2010 10:17:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cfulbright Rob - thanks, I guess there's some sense in that. It also explains why my Hornet SBD's weren't doing very well against AKL's. I'll have to fix that right away. Was it like this in original WITP, or is this a new development in AE? Its new in AE. Set you SBDs to 10,000 feet if you want them to divebomb. Not a good idea to use them against bases as they just are too rare and valuable early in the game.

Sardaukar -> RE: November 1942 (1/20/2010 6:42:34 AM)
I think most useful against bases is using DBs 16-19k, since they do glide attack, which is more accurate than level bombing and does not expose them as badly as dive bombing. And if there is lot of flak, to use them 20k+, so they will just level bomb installations from that altitude, avoiding lot of flak.

Graymane -> RE: Allied strategy - 1st half year (1/20/2010 2:27:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wpurdom In reading a number of AAR's, I'm wondering whether the cold, objective Allied strategy (outside China) for the first 6 months should be a complete Sir Robin outside of Hawaii, New Zealand, Cooktown-Geraldton, India frontier, aside from the occasion ambush with unimportant assets or by CV's when you're very sure KB is far away. (Since I haven't been able to participate in a PBEM, I'm wanting an inside retrospective analysis.) Specifically: 1. PULL BACK any land assets you can, 2. Don't engage in prolonged fighter contests where the IJ player can sweep unless you have Hurricanes for high altitude cover available - otherwise either bring your fighters forward for an ambush or keep them grounded most of the time and unpredictably rise to engage ocassionally, ala Speedy; in AE with the reduced Allied AF, it's not clear to me that attrition (outside of CV pilots) serves Allied purposes before mid-43 - on the other hand if you don't fight at all, you won't have 1st class pilots to speed up pilot training) 3. use surface forces for rare ambushes where you're not committed to sticking around - LBA support being largely illusionary or ephemeral in this phase; 4. mostly lurk and train your CV's unless there is a good target, you're sure that KB is far away, and you have LBA parity in the area for a while; 5. train your forces and move supplies. Very boring, but can John Paul Jones' slogan be successfully applied against a IJ player of equal competence in the first six months: "he who does not dare cannot win"? In other words, should the Allied player, train, move supplies, and lurk until late 42 or the Japanese player overcommits too far from home (clear signs of victory disease on the map)? There have been good discussions on this throughout the thread I think. I've never been quite sure what "complete sir robin" really means in practice (especially since it isn't really possible any longer). I tend to think in terms of the old METT-T adage (mission, enemy, troops, terrain and time). I think each part of the pacific theatre needs its own strategy. I think you need a plan for China and Burma/India, a plan for the PI and DEI, the SW Pacific, Aleutians and finally SOPAC/CINCPAC. Rather than think in terms of "Sir Robin", think in terms of what you want to accomplish (mission) in a given period of time (time). You have to have some kind of estimate of the enemy strength. We all know that in the early months/years, the Japs have a qualitative and quantitative superiority in most categories. That leaves troops and terrain. Given that you are going to be defensive in most places, you must place troops where they will do the most good and you must be aware of your reinforcement schedule. Gathering them all up in one or two locations is maybe not always the best strategy. The DEI is a really good example. Make the Jap player take every one of those bases and locations. Don't just give in. Burma, however, is probably a different story. It really isn't very defensible and it might make more sense to pull troops and consolidate your lines. The thing is, you have to be more like Ali and do a "rope-a-dope". You have to pick and choose your spots and then gather your forces for locale superiority and strike back. The ABDA and Asiatic fleets are good examples. You can really hurt an unwary Jap player early on with that force, especially if you have TF "Z" in it. Same with your carrier strike forces. You can use it to great effect if the Jap overextends too early. Nimitz had a great adage during the war. Paraphrasing, he basically said, take risks as long as you will do more damage to the Japs then you do to yourself. In the real war, those little raids by the carriers and different, limited strikes carried out by all forces served a really useful purpose. It game units real COMBAT experience. It improved their tactics and experience. This is reflected in the game with the training rules for things like air groups. You cannot simply ground your units, you HAVE to use them to get them trained to higher levels.

Nemo121 -> RE: Allied strategy - 1st half year (1/20/2010 3:47:34 PM)
Sorry but I can't agree with this whole run away thing... Sure it is easy to win if you run away and wait until the weight of men and materiel makes it such that you have an insurmountable advantage. However under those circumstances even a monkey could win. Is winning important to you or is playing skillfully important? If winning is then, sure, sit back and wait until you have 2 CVs to every one the IJN has, have hordes of planes and pilots and reserves and then march across the Pacific. You'll win but, frankly, so could almost anyone. What's the point in that? No, far better to fight forward, not necessarily to hold but to delay, disrupt and discombobulate, trading ground for time, launching counter-attacks as and when possible, spoiling operations where counter-offensives aren't possible and skillfully defending what must be defended. That requires some skill and is play worthy of being looked back on with a bit of pride. Pulling back, meekly letting the enemy take what he wills and only striking back when all evitability has been removed from the equation really isn't any sort of play to be happy with. Plus, rather importantly, no-one is going to become a better strategist from engaging in foregone conclusions of campaigns. You get better by engaging in campaigns which might fail and which require skill to succeed. Sure, initially you'll fail more than you succeed but a year later you'll be succeeding more than you fail and will be a much better strategist and operational commander for it. So, do you want to win or become a better player? If you want to win then pull back, if you want to become better then fight when the cards are stacked against you and over time you'll become better and eventually be able to win victories in spite of the odds.

aztez -> RE: Allied strategy - 1st half year (1/21/2010 11:30:09 AM)
Hi guys! It has been slow paced turns lately. Dave has been busy RL so we haven't advanced much. I will do an update later tonight though since it seems I got turn waiting for me in the inbox. crsutton: You definately need to build up the experince levels of the ground units and changing leaders helps in this area of the game. I don't think it is wise to give airsupremacy for free though. He can train as well so it might bite you back later on. Anoher good example how variable the human approach can be when compared to the AI. cfulbright: What other have already said. This was news to me too as have been things with AE. Grollub: As you said the info came from the "horses mouth"! Rob: To me horizontal bombing accuracy is very poor at least with under 70exp squadrons. They haven't hit a damn thing doing this. Sardaukar: What kind of hit "ratios" do those squadrons get bombing bases from that alltitude? These has been toned down a lot from the witp classic at least with lba bombers. Graymane: I concur on the Burma. is doomed and definately not worth to duel it out in full scale at the beginning. If we would start all over again than DEI would get some additional reinforcements. Another good rule is not get your troops get isolated and pick your spots. No need to give him "freebie" 100av units which are fighting. Mass the troops together and force your opponent to dislodge you. Nemo121: Welcome and as said before nice to see you back on the forums. Yeah, it will definately get boring if you just back off 1,5 years so some gambles are worth the effort. Personaly I have made couple of these with CV's but didn't get the big reward. At the moment though time to wait and regroup unless an opportunity presents itself. I have still 2 CV's under repairs after the operation Tango. CV Wasp has just reached the west coast so it will couple of months before it is back in action. We shall see what happens but now it's not the time to rush things out.

aztez -> november 1942 (1/21/2010 4:21:04 PM)
China (november 18th - 21st 1942) I was somewhat to see japanese launching yet another ground assault south of Kweiyang on the 20th of november. The chinese defensive line held firm and inflicted heavy casualties to the enemy forces. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 75,50 Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 141960 troops, 1315 guns, 769 vehicles, Assault Value = 5280 Defending force 118458 troops, 663 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4172 Japanese adjusted assault: 1547 Allied adjusted defense: 6301 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 8421 casualties reported Squads: 101 destroyed, 579 disabled Non Combat: 64 destroyed, 619 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 65 disabled Vehicles lost 231 (131 destroyed, 100 disabled) Allied ground losses: 5713 casualties reported Squads: 15 destroyed, 414 disabled Non Combat: 15 destroyed, 448 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled) Assaulting units: 8th Recon Regiment 17th/B Division 39th Division 37th Division 110th Division 6th Division 13th Indpt Infantry Regiment 5th Tank Regiment 40th Division 10th Tank Regiment 116th Division 2nd Ind.Mixed Regiment 11th Indpt Infantry Regiment 41st Division 35th Division 26th Recon Regiment 13th/A Division 104th Division 13th Tank Regiment 12th Indpt Infantry Regiment 22nd/A Division 12th Tank Regiment 13th/B Division 6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 4th Mortar Battalion 15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment 5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion 5th RF Gun Battalion Defending units: 46th Chinese Corps 4th Chinese Corps 37th Chinese Corps 70th Chinese Corps 20th Chinese Corps 53rd Chinese Corps 14th Chinese Corps 10th Chinese Corps 8th Route Army 64th Chinese Corps 94th Chinese Corps 16th Chinese Corps 28th Chinese Corps 39th New Chinese Division 79th Chinese/B Corps 52nd Chinese/C Corps 36th Chinese Corps 85th Chinese Corps 76th Chinese Corps 60th Chinese/B Corps 4th War Area 11th Group Army 9th Group Army 35th Group Army ...not too bad of an effort here. The chinese experience levels got another boost with this victory. Dave has laucnhed air strikes againts Kweiyang and Chihkiang. Few Tojos were downed and 10-20 bombers has been lost in operational efforts. [image]local://upfiles/15617/4FCEB1D1398A41448C64C84E92D268A4.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: november 1942 (1/21/2010 4:22:07 PM)
Pacific (november 18th - 21st 1942) As said there has not been that much action after Dave seized Dutch Harbour. A lot of my submarines are due to upgraded on 12/42 timeline so I have +20 of them waiting for this. CV Wasp has reached west coast and is expected to be out for couple of months. In Burma my recon shows large scale aircraft deployment of the enemy. I cannot confirm that the reports / recon is true but this hasn't gone unnoticed. In Australia no signs of enemy infantry units. The coastal watchers reports 20-50 ships docked at Darwin though. US submarines score couple of more hits near Home Islands. [image]local://upfiles/15617/3D6378B3839342D2826A3D5B7BEC2169.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 7:35:21 PM)
Midway (november 22nd - 27th 1942) As longtime followers maybe remember there was intel that enemy was preparing for the advance towards Midway atoll. All this came reality in past couple of turns. This show began on landings at Kure Atoll. The base was ungarrisoned so it was seized immediately. The main show began on the november 24th 1942 at the obvious target was Midway. It seems he is using familiar troops and ships from the Aleutians adventure few weeks ago. One note before you start digesting this long report. After reading the main forum thread regarding the CD guns Dave opted to split his forces. Instead of landing single +100 ships he uses 2 separate TF's here. I did not ask him to do this but it just shows how honourable opponent he is. The action at 24th and 25th didn't involve any amphibitious landings but there were plenty of action... ASW attack near Midway Island at 158,90 Japanese Ships DD Asanagi CA Tone CS Chitose DD Makinami DD Usugumo Allied Ships SS Peto SS Peto launches 6 torpedoes at DD Asanagi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 197 encounters mine field at Midway Island (158,91) Japanese Ships DD Naganami, Mine hits 1, heavy damage 2 mines cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Midway Island at 158,91, Range 6,000 Yards Japanese Ships BB Kirishima BB Hyuga DD Umikaze DMS W-19 DMS W-20 Allied Ships PG Sacramento, Shell hits 8, and is sunk AS Pelias, Shell hits 13, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 188 encounters mine field at Midway Island (158,91) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 16 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships DMS W-20, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage DMS W-19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Submarine attack near Midway Island at 158,91 Japanese Ships DD Naganami, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Allied Ships SS S-32 DD Naganami is sighted by SS S-32 SS S-32 launches 4 torpedoes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Midway Island at 158,90 Japanese Ships CL Tatsuta CA Furutaka CS Chiyoda DD Shiranui DD Karukaya DD Asagao Allied Ships SS Peto SS Peto launches 6 torpedoes at CL Tatsuta Japanese also conducted an naval bombardments by BB Hiei, BB Huyga (she is back), BB Kirishima and BB Kongo. KB conducted couple of naval strikes and base bombing runs. The result very minor damage and 10-20 Val's reported damaged by combat.txt files. I have plenty of submarines here since Midway was an submarine base and thankfully this did not happen a week later since he would have nailed an supply/fuel TF on the beach here. The action became much more intense on 26th and 27th when the invasion really begun, ASW attack near Midway Island at 158,91 Japanese Ships BB Kongo SC Ch 13 xAK Yosida Maru #1 xAK Yasuteru Maru xAK Yuzan Maru xAK Sugiyama Maru xAKL Eiwa Maru xAKL Kuramasan Maru xAKL Shinshui Maru xAKL Rozan Maru xAKL Ina Maru xAKL Yuki Maru xAKL Takegawa Maru xAKL Amakasu Maru PB Zosen Maru SC Ch 18 Allied Ships SS S-32 SS S-32 launches 4 torpedoes at BB Kongo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 115 encounters mine field at Midway Island (158,91) Japanese Ships PB Zosen Maru SC Ch 13 BB Hiei, Mine hits 1, heavy damage 4 mines cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Midway Island at 158,91 Japanese Ships PB Shinko Maru #3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage SC Ch 32 AK Yamasimo Maru xAK Nitii Maru xAK Soyo Maru xAK Ryuyo Maru xAK Misaku Maru xAK Jinshu Maru xAK Anzan Maru #2 DD Kagero DD Takanami Allied Ships SS S-32 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-Invasion action off Midway Island - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 19 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships BB Hyuga BB Kirishima DD Takanami, Shell hits 1 xAK Teiyo Maru, Shell hits 3 SC Ch 32 Allied ground losses: 6 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at Midway Island TF 40 troops unloading over beach at Midway Island, 158,91 Japanese ground losses: 275 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 28 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-Invasion action off Midway Island - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 12 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships BB Kongo xAKL Nittatsu Maru, Shell hits 1 PB Zosen Maru SC Ch 18, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage SC Ch 13 SC Ch 2 Japanese ground losses: 6 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at Midway Island TF 115 troops unloading over beach at Midway Island, 158,91 Japanese ground losses: 790 casualties reported Squads: 4 destroyed, 80 disabled Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 90 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off Midway Island - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 20 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1 BB Kirishima, Shell hits 1 xAK Teiyo Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire SC Ch 32, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off Midway Island - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 8 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships BB Kongo, Shell hits 2 xAKL Amakasu Maru, Shell hits 1 PB Zosen Maru SC Ch 13 SC Ch 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off Midway Island 1 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships xAK Mansei Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire BB Hyuga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off Midway Island 8 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships xAKL Amakasu Maru, Shell hits 2, on fire BB Kongo PB Zosen Maru, Shell hits 5, on fire SC Ch 13 SC Ch 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Midway Island (158,91) Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 12235 troops, 62 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 501 Defending force 3265 troops, 65 guns, 69 vehicles, Assault Value = 73 Japanese adjusted assault: 3 Allied adjusted defense: 50 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 16 (fort level 4) Combat modifiers Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-) Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-), supply(-) Japanese ground losses: 8207 casualties reported Squads: 193 destroyed, 94 disabled Non Combat: 185 destroyed, 36 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 14 (14 destroyed, 0 disabled) Allied ground losses: 55 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled) Assaulting units: 46th Nav Gd /1 Guards Mixed Bde /6 144th Infantry Rgt /1 Kure 3rd SNLF /1 67th Nav Gd /2 47th Nav Gd /1 65th Nav Gd /1 64th Nav Gd /1 Defending units: 116th USAAF Base Force 6th Marine Defense Battalion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off Midway Island 9 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships xAKL Amakasu Maru, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage BB Kongo SC Ch 13, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage SC Ch 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack near Midway Island at 158,91 Japanese Ships xAK Nishi Maru xAK Taigen Maru xAKL Junpo Maru xAKL Fuyukawa Maru xAKL Tokiwasan Maru xAKL Shinmei Maru xAKL Takegawa Maru xAKL Amakasu Maru, on fire, heavy damage SC Ch 2 Allied Ships SS S-32, hits 6, on fire, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off Midway Island 1 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships xAKL Amakasu Maru, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage BB Kongo SC Ch 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off Midway Island 5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships xAK Mansei Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire BB Hyuga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off Midway Island 4 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships xAK Daijukyo Maru, Shell hits 4 BB Hyuga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Midway Island (158,91) Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 10576 troops, 142 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 263 Defending force 3139 troops, 65 guns, 69 vehicles, Assault Value = 70 Japanese adjusted assault: 3 Allied adjusted defense: 226 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 75 (fort level 4) Combat modifiers Defender: forts(+), disruption(-) Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-) Japanese ground losses: 4040 casualties reported Squads: 70 destroyed, 8 disabled Non Combat: 105 destroyed, 46 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled) Allied ground losses: 102 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 19 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Vehicles lost 5 (0 destroyed, 5 disabled) Assaulting units: 46th Nav Gd /1 Kure 3rd SNLF /1 Guards Mixed Bde /6 67th Nav Gd /2 47th Nav Gd /1 65th Nav Gd /1 144th Infantry Rgt /1 64th Nav Gd /1 Defending units: 116th USAAF Base Force 6th Marine Defense Battalion ...that is how things ended on evening of 27th of november 1942. Yet another carnage on our PBEM journey, The CD guns did ok and hammered couple of his transports which is definately good thing. I do hope the mine hit on BB Hiei is not FOW. It is a long ride back to Home Islands if this correct. There are still +300 mines and level 4 forts to be dealt with. The KB still seems to be in good shape. A couple of well coordinated strikes launched and no lack of aircraft it seems. Maybe we have not hammered his pilots as bad as I would have loved to. The carnage on the beaches was nice! I wonder how prepared his forces actually were since not all of these had 100 prep points for sure. Medal of honours to those brave marines. I have actually ordered an ground assult of our own since the distrubtion etc must be sky high with enemy troops. Another very important intel and lesson is to see that those atoll assaults are complete massacre and this hasn't gone unnoticed in the alied HQ. I have raised our fleet and lba bombers on red alert at Hawaji. There are some 1500 aircraft action ready along with the naval assets. Whether or not to intervene is completely diffrent issue. [image]local://upfiles/15617/9F2141FF8DDB43B896293A8816F8C540.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 7:36:33 PM)
Pacific (november 22nd - 27th 1942) In china two significant developments to be noted. First the japanese airforce is launching large raids againts Chunghking. The chinese paper airforce is having tough time indeed. Near Kweiyang it seems Dave is withdrawing his troops towards south. There are now some 2800av left standing on the battlefield. I'am tempted to launch an ground assault here but too risky business a the moment. In Burma an large enemy CA TF has visited Cox's Bazar. The damaged inflicted is minimal but he still has big naval assets most likely on Rangoon. In Australia my recon indicates that Cairns and couple of other places are mildly garrisoned. I have sent couple of units to check this out. I'am not trusting my flight recons on these matters. [image]local://upfiles/15617/D877D23044044DA2834B6C083A400151.jpg[/image]

offenseman -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 8:54:16 PM)
I don't understand the Midway move especially this late in the game when he knows you have to have high fort levels there and a monstrous Air force not too far away. I am interested to see how some of this plays out because I just do not understand why.

Smeulders -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 9:13:47 PM)
Might very well be an attempt to draw out the allied CVs now that he still has the advantage, otherwise this doesn't seem like a particularly good move, certainly as his LCU don't seem properly prepared to attack the island.

offenseman -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 9:37:02 PM)
Good point and that is probably the reason. He is dangling his CVs close enough to be bait but not close enough to be in serious jeopardy from LBA at Pearl. He probably knows that Wasp is hurt or maybe even thinks she is sunk and that he has a numerical advantage. I'd not fall into this one. Wait for a few Essex' and a lot of Hellcats first.

aztez -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 9:50:56 PM)
Midway (november 28th - 29th 1942) Things toned down a bit from initial shockwave. KB remained in position south of Midway and it is quite obviously trying to perform an welcoming committee to anykind of US naval intervention here. The enemy carrier force launched an strike againts Midway on 29th... Afternoon Air attack on 6th Marine Defense Battalion, at 158,91 (Midway Island) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 60 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 15 D3A1 Val x 116 Japanese aircraft losses D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed, 42 damaged Allied ground losses: 25 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 3 (0 destroyed, 3 disabled) Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) As you can see the raid did not amount to much and I expect these to continue. I did mention that US marines were set on ground assault last turn. Things went well if you view these in the bigger picture. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Midway Island (158,91) Allied Deliberate attack Attacking force 1233 troops, 53 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 70 Defending force 7376 troops, 108 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 192 Allied adjusted assault: 14 Japanese adjusted defense: 4 Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 Combat modifiers Defender: disruption(-), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: disruption(-) Japanese ground losses: 4234 casualties reported Squads: 127 destroyed, 65 disabled Non Combat: 89 destroyed, 109 disabled Engineers: 4 destroyed, 4 disabled Guns lost 46 (31 destroyed, 15 disabled) Units destroyed 2 Allied ground losses: 457 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 21 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 25 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Assaulting units: 116th USAAF Base Force 6th Marine Defense Battalion Defending units: 67th Naval Guard Unit 144th Infantry Regiment 47th Naval Guard Unit 65th Naval Guard Unit Guards Mixed Bde /6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Midway Island (158,91) Allied Deliberate attack Attacking force 863 troops, 53 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 42 Defending force 4908 troops, 71 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 121 Allied adjusted assault: 0 Japanese adjusted defense: 6 Allied assault odds: 1 to 99 Combat modifiers Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-) supply(-) Attacker: disruption(-) Japanese ground losses: 22 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Allied ground losses: 549 casualties reported Squads: 30 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 7 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Assaulting units: 116th USAAF Base Force 6th Marine Defense Battalion Defending units: 144th Infantry Regiment Guards Mixed Brigade 47th Naval Guard Unit Not bad at all. The total of +4500 enemy troops reported wounded/killed and we lost 1000 men. We might lose this base BUT this was an very good performance in terms of casualties inflicted. Our submarines were unable to attack any naval forces he has here but I will continue the aggressive use of them here. Dave did withdraw his transports too which was the only thing to do after the casualties inflicted here. Intresting to see what he has in store here though. At Pearl Harbour the fleet is ready allthough at the moment no orders are given. The lba fighters/bombers are also in combat mode here. [image]local://upfiles/15617/D74CC36596914665846396652F0C9BEF.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 9:52:04 PM)
Burma (november 28th - 29th 1942) The enemy has landed or transported some new elements into Akyab. There are now 6 units reported and strenght is below 10 000 men, His cruisers were back in action last turn and visited Cox's Bazar. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Naval bombardment of Cox's Bazar at 54,43 Japanese Ships CA Mikuma CA Mogami CA Ashigara CA Myoko CA Maya CA Atago CA Chikuma DD Shinonome DD Hibiki DD Hayashio Allied ground losses: 13 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled ...not much in terms of damage inflicted though. Next turn I moved SBD's into area and set them on navalstrike mission. We shall see whether they take off and hopefully with fighter escorts this time around. Talking about escorting bombers. Well, much has been talked lately and this time things "smiled" on me. We managed to shoot down some 15-20 Sally's flying unescorted missions. So, it wasn't that good of an turn in the imperial HQ. [image]local://upfiles/15617/4BAC3B99C92246F2AAC6BA856EABD540.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 9:53:23 PM)
offenseman: I think there might be few reasons of these kind of behaviour in addition to the bushido spirit ofcourse. a) As Smeulders pointed out the most likely thing is that he wants to duke it out with my carriers. This shows that he still feels confident about his forces and he knows I'am growing stronger by the day. b) Bufferzone. This very likely too since the position of Midway serves as an such. Same thing is likely key idea behind the Aleutians adventure too. c) Our previous game in the classic Witp. I hammered him straight through the middle and to be honest yet again very tempting idea. d) The X-factor! ... I guess he could have some other ideas too but most likely combination of the three above. No idea what his FOW looked but I can confirm that none of the CV''s were sunk earlier. The longerst to be repaired is CV Wasp which +100 days off of full battle readiness. Smeulders: Agreed! He has stayed out of the lba range and most likely will remain so. I know Dave has an allied game too so he knows about the allied carriers coming into service. Looking and and adding numbers and this really isn't such odd move from the KB.

LoBaron -> RE: november 1942 (1/23/2010 10:50:19 PM)
I think Midway is far away from being useless for the Japanese at this time of the war. Just think of it: It brings the Hawaian bases in range of LB naval search. Midways best use is as an early warning base for the central pacific. As soon as loads of ships show up at PH erstad knows theres something in the bush...

offenseman -> RE: november 1942 (1/24/2010 12:42:40 AM)
True but the supply line is so long. I'd rather put an AV and some Mabels in Marcus. You wouldn't see PH but would see ships coming down the middle from pretty far out. As with many things in this game, I am anxious to see how it plays out.

cfulbright -> RE: november 1942 (1/24/2010 12:57:55 AM)
Aztez - Do you have any sub's converted to SST's? You might want to transport some fresh ground troops to Midway, even if it's just part of a small USMC Raider Battalion. You lost a lot on that very last ground attack.

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