FOW is working (Full Version)

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R8J -> FOW is working (8/3/2009 6:27:33 PM)

SB2C-5 Helldiver from VT-74 has spotted a Japanese CA at 173,141
F1M2 Pete reports object near surface at 172, 143 near Christmas Island
F1M2 Pete sighting report: 10 Allied ships at 173,139 near Christmas Island, speed 19, Moving Northwest
OS2U-3 Kingfisher sighting report: 9 Japanese ships at 169,134 near Palmyra, speed 20, Moving East

There is only one Japanese ship in this scenario and it is at 173,141.
There are two Allied ships. Both are in seperate ports.
There is nothing at 172,143.



John Lansford -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 6:47:18 PM)

The Dutch CL Java was attacked and sunk by torpedo bombers north of Borneo in my game.  During the attack, the combat report indicated three different ships had been attacked; Java, a "Helena class CL", and De Ruyter.  If my opponent had been a human instead of the AI he would probably be wondering just how many CL's were in that TF.

How they mistook Java for either a Helena or De Ruyter escapes me; it's not like the difference between a Cleveland and a Helena, or a Chicago and a San Francisco, after all.



AttuWatcher -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 6:55:19 PM)

Playing Aleutians I'm pretty sure I've had my own TF's reported as Japanese TF's a few times. [:D]



R8J -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 6:55:47 PM)

After the first airstrike in my last test Midway vs Shinano three Japnese CVs were reported in three differant hexes north of the Midway.

If this was a PBEM game and early in the war I'd be concerned I was being ambushed and steamed at full speed to the southeast.

In that airstrike the Shinano was ID'd as a Hiryu class.

I can see the mis-identification of ships. The Japanese attacked the Neshoba (sp) thinking (or at least reporting) it was a CV.

When I was in the navy the majoity of sailors (at least on my ship) could not tell a Soviet ship from a NATO. Every merchant ship was a super tanker. Every fishing boat was a AGI.



jazman -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 7:09:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: R8J


When I was in the navy the majoity of sailors (at least on my ship) could not tell a Soviet ship from a NATO. Every merchant ship was a super tanker. Every fishing boat was a AGI.


And on the West Front every German tank was a Tiger tank.



R8J -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 7:20:08 PM)

I forgot about that one.

Every gun was an 88.



AttuWatcher -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 7:30:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: R8J
When I was in the navy the majoity of sailors (at least on my ship) could not tell a Soviet ship from a NATO. Every merchant ship was a super tanker. Every fishing boat was a AGI.


When I patrolled the North Pac we once had a tanker reported as a USN CV and every Russian fishing vessel was reported as a rust bucket [:)]



R8J -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 7:38:20 PM)

Off the coast of Egypt several oil rigs were ID'd as supertankers.

And off VA Beach the top of some hotels were ID'd as super tankers.

If it wasn't grey it was a super tanker.



scott64 -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 7:51:48 PM)

I had one sub be reported as sunk twice now, and yet the sub still swims. [:'(]



wpurdom -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 9:52:33 PM)

Speaking about FOW, I think I saw Zuikaku on the sunk ship list before I encountered it in a crippled state and sunk it (again?).



BoneMaru -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 9:57:40 PM)

I think Japs reported a CV sinking at Coral Sea, in reality was the replenish tanker. Adds to fog of war imo.



Swayin -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 10:28:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford
How they mistook Java for either a Helena or De Ruyter escapes me; it's not like the difference between a Cleveland and a Helena, or a Chicago and a San Francisco, after all.



I remember reading in "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" (perhaps the best book I've ever read on WW II naval surface combat, BTW) that a Japanese VADM was sure he was locked in a running gun duel with US CAs ... and the reality was it was a couple of Fletchers and a DE...pretty common occurence.



Tazo -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 10:51:59 PM)


I agree, FOW works well !

After 2 months of Guadalcanal campaign I had a "certain" idea of which jap ships mine were
able to sunk and this was confirmed by the "list of sunk ships" in the menu counting the points.

But...

I looked at the current turn from the other side just to figure out if it was worth continuing
after very intense operations and then... surprise, some of the actually sunk ships were quiet
different, not the same name or class, and my score was three times the one I believed in.

Indeed the zui and the sho I pursued after our last battle 31 sept' (when they escaped thanks
to bad weather)... were sunk just after the attacks (the date and location are listed and true for
the active side), so my planes under the stormy weather failed to see this, and this is why I only
succeeded in attacking a CA/DD surface TF retiring the next two days, I was not happy since I
especially micromanaged all the sector recos to catch them again... So the FOW is working and
the reports are really likely to provide bad infos ! Or missing some important ones ! I'm not sure
how I will have learned this "two CV sunk" later... and with my Wasp suddenly sunk during the
night by a submarine thus letting the Saratoga alone while waiting 40 and 70 days the 2 others
CV being repaired, I would have hard time under this frustrating uncertainty with respect to the
severely damaged jap CVs. Great simulation of FOW, with major impact on the player's decisions !

Likewise, the reco of this jap turn showed some of the "sighted ships" hex I knew to be empty.

Also, some busy days my pilots reported the Yamato everywhere, say in two TFs ! I damaged
then even sunk her after multi-dive bombings... several times in different locations ! And indeed
she was returned in a port, only lightly damaged, while another BB was sunk and another back
home for long repair.

As IRL we have to be careful with reports and try to proceed by logical deduction. [&o]
So I can imagine large scale uncertainty during the full campaign... [;)]

( Now I go for a second Guadal this time played entirely to report to Andy the long range performance
of the AI, to confirm strengh and weakness - and improve or clarify a few possibilities for the Jap.
To prepare for the grand campaign I think it is worth exploring deeply this not too long scenario I
love so much. )




esteban -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 11:33:42 PM)

All thats needed now is to have these FOW reports, especially the sinkings, rendered ingame via Tokyo Rose voiceovers!!



Tazo -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 11:45:37 PM)


Right Esteban, capital ship sinkings are hard to hide simultaneously to the journalists of
our side, to soldier families and to enemy spies ! Impossible after some delay.

Good new feature : major sinkings announced after a random delay... by a newspaper title !



Dili -> RE: FOW is working (8/3/2009 11:51:42 PM)

There are errors in ID that are mindblowing but that is how the things are in reality. Only after some time in real cases with friends i grasped that are big differences in visual abilities from person to person. Things that i could see clear for others were difficult or uncertain.



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