Aircraft Upgrade Paths! (Full Version)

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Rich Dionne -> Aircraft Upgrade Paths! (6/6/2002 11:49:31 AM)

Here is a list of the aircraft upgrade paths used in UV. It lists the number and name of each aircraft in the database (blanks are omitted), and the upgrade aircraft number and name (if there is one). Once there are "enough" aircraft of the upgrade type available in the aircraft pool, then airgroups of the older aircraft type may be upgraded. You may note some apparent duplicate aircraft in the database; this is provided to cover the different nationalities in the game.

We'll try to provide this list in a better format in the upcoming patch.

Regards,

Rich Dionne


#) Aircraft Name --> Upgrade #) Upgrade Aircraft
1) A5M4 Claude --> 3) A6M2 Zero
2) A6M2-N Rufe
3) A6M2 Zero --> 4) A6M3 Zero
4) A6M3 Zero --> 5) A6M5 Zeke
5) A6M5 Zeke
7) N1K1-J George
8) J1N1-C Irving
10) D3A Val --> 12) D4Y Judy
12) D4Y Judy
13) A6M5-B Zeke
15) B5N Kate --> 17) B6N Jill
17) B6N Jill
20) G3M Nell --> 22) G4M1 Betty
22) G4M1 Betty --> 23) G4M2 Betty
23) G4M2 Betty
25) P1Y Frances
27) J1N1-R Irving
28) H6K Mavis --> 29) H8K Emily
29) H8K Emily
30) E8N Dave --> 32) E13A1 Jake
31) F1M2 Pete
32) E13A1 Jake
33) E7K2 Alf
34) Ki-27 Nate --> 35) Ki-43-Ia Oscar
35) Ki-43-Ia Oscar --> 36) Ki-43-IIa Oscar
36) Ki-43-IIa Oscar --> 39) Ki-61 KAIc Tony
37) Ki-44-IIb Tojo
38) Ki-45 KAIb Nick
39) Ki-61 KAIc Tony --> 40) Ki-84-Ia Frank
40) Ki-84-Ia Frank --> 41) Ki-84-Ic Frank
41) Ki-84-Ic Frank
42) Ki-45 KAIa Nick
43) Ki-51 Sonia
44) Ki-21 Sally --> 46) Ki-67 Peggy
45) Ki-48 Lily
46) Ki-67 Peggy
47) Ki-46 Dinah
48) Ki-49 Helen --> 46) Ki-67 Peggy
49) Ki-57-I Topsy
60) F2A Buffalo --> 62) F4F-3 Wildcat
62) F4F-3 Wildcat --> 63) F4F-4 Wildcat
63) F4F-4 Wildcat --> 65) F6F Hellcat
65) F6F Hellcat
67) F4U-1 Corsair --> 68) F4U-4 Corsair
68) F4U-4 Corsair
71) SBD Dauntless --> 73) SB2C Helldiver
73) SB2C Helldiver
76) TBD Devastator --> 77) TBF Avenger
77) TBF Avenger
80) PBY Catalina
82) OS2U-3 Kingfisher
83) SOC-3 Seagull
87) Hudson --> 96) Beaufighter VIC
89) C-47 Dakota
91) Hurricane II --> 93) Spitfire Vb
93) Spitfire Vb --> 94) Spitfire IX
94) Spitfire IX
95) Boomerang II
96) Beaufighter VIC
97) Beaufort --> 96) Beaufighter VIC
98) Wellington III
99) Wirraway --> 95) Boomerang II
100) P-400 Airacobra --> 101) P-39D Airacobra
101) P-39D Airacobra --> 105) P-38G Lightning
103) P-40E Kittyhawk
104) P-40E Warhawk --> 105) P-38G Lightning
105) P-38G Lightning --> 106) P-38J Lightning
106) P-38J Lightning
107) F-5A Lightning --> 108) F-5C Lightning
108) F-5C Lightning
109) P-47C Thunderbolt --> 110) P-47D Thunderbolt
110) P-47D Thunderbolt
112) A-36A Apache --> 103) P-40E Kittyhawk
113) P-51B Mustang --> 114) P-51D Mustang
114) P-51D Mustang
115) F-6A Mustang --> 116) F-6D Mustang
116) F-6D Mustang
117) P-61A Black Widow
118) P-70A Havoc
119) A-24 Dauntless --> 140) A-20B Havoc
120) A-20B Boston --> 143) A-20G Boston
121) A-20G Havoc
123) B-25D Mitchell --> 124) B-25J Mitchell
124) B-25J Mitchell
126) B-26B Marauder --> 124) B-25J Mitchell
127) B-26G Marauder --> 124) B-25J Mitchell
129) A-26B Invader
132) B-17E Fortress --> 137) B-24J Liberator
133) B-17G Fortress
135) PB4Y Liberator
136) B-24D Liberator --> 137) B-24J Liberator
137) B-24J Liberator
140) A-20B Havoc --> 121) A-20G Havoc
142) P-39D Airacobra --> 103) P-40E Kittyhawk
143) A-20G Boston



Paul Dyer -> (6/6/2002 4:11:11 PM)

Thanks. One question, are upgrades automatic or can we elect to stay with the earlier aircraft? [still waiting for my game to arrive in this far flung corner of the world]. In particular, I'm sure I'll gain eternal gratitude from my fliers by retaining the SBD rather than "upgrading" to Helldivers.



Slaughtermeyer -> (6/6/2002 4:24:48 PM)

You can prevent upgrades by keeping the squadrons out of transport range of the required base (Brisbane/Noumea/Truk)



HARD_SARGE -> (6/6/2002 5:53:35 PM)

Thanks Rich

also, in my game, the 4F4 wildcat will change over to the F4u-1, I got the 2 that came in as reinforcements, 3 land base cat units that changed over and I think it is VF-28, VF-8 and VF-71 have also changed over to F4u-1's also

HARD_Sarge

wish the 47 was in the path, instead of starting the path



Yamamoto -> Re: Aircraft Upgrade Paths! (6/6/2002 11:07:58 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Dionne
[B]
132) B-17E Fortress --> 137) B-24J Liberator
[/B][/QUOTE]

Just want to confirm that this is not a typo. It seems strange that they turn into B-24’s instead of the B17g.

Yamamoto



Rich Dionne -> (6/7/2002 5:11:30 AM)

It is not a typo. This is the way Gary has it hardwired.

Regards,

Rich



von Murrin -> (6/7/2002 5:19:57 AM)

Thank you Rich, that's great stuff. :)



IKerensky -> (6/7/2002 5:52:15 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Dionne
[B]This is the way Gary has it hardwired.

Regards,

Rich [/B][/QUOTE]

Certainly one of the most feared sentence on many of the forum around Gary product, jsut ask PacWar and WiR upgrade team ... :p

I supposed WiTP will be much less hardwired in any way :p



Hartmann -> (6/7/2002 6:09:35 AM)

Great tableau! And I'm already looking forward to the even greater variety of planes in WitP. :)

Hartmann



CynicAl -> Re: Re: Aircraft Upgrade Paths! (6/7/2002 10:11:51 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yamamoto
[B]

Just want to confirm that this is not a typo. It seems strange that they turn into B-24?s instead of the B17g.

Yamamoto [/B][/QUOTE]

It's not strange at all: very, very few B-17Gs, if any, were ever sent to the Pacific. The B-17G didn't enter production until July 1943, by which time the Flying Fortress was already being withdrawn from the theater; to the best of my knowledge the last B-17 squadron in the PTO transitioned to B-24s by about December of 1943, which doesn't give a very large window of opportunity. B-17s turn into B-24s in the game because the PTO B-17 groups converted to B-24s historically.



worr -> (6/7/2002 2:32:05 PM)

Many thanks, Rich.

Could they also give dates for these in the patch?

Worr, out



CJ Martin -> Great idea (6/7/2002 6:35:52 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by worr
[B]Many thanks, Rich.

Could they also give dates for these in the patch?

Worr, out [/B][/QUOTE]

I second this idea...perhaps something in the readme? That would let me plan my upgrades, as I have very few squadrons within range of the main bases.

That brings me to a question on aircraft upgrades - when upgrading from say P-39D's to P-38G's, does the squadron have to be in range for both aircraft types, or just the new type?

-CJ



von Murrin -> (6/7/2002 7:09:02 PM)

I believe a/c upgrades are made based upon the range of the new a/c type. In my current game, nearly all my P-39 and P-400 AG's are flying P-38's, and they're all at Lunga or PM. Same goes for my F4's at Irau and Lunga, which are beginning to switch to F4U's.



Rich Dionne -> (6/7/2002 8:47:32 PM)

Thanks Guys,

I'll see what I can do about getting you info on when the upgrade aircraft start to become available.

Regards

Rich



juliet7bravo -> (6/7/2002 9:59:11 PM)

Rich...do you already have a dbase completed on units before I spend alot more time on it? If not, I'll continue to slog along with it.



Sinjen -> CVE Long Island Mystery revealed! (6/7/2002 10:01:07 PM)

Very revealing thread. My squadron of A-24's I based on the CVE Long Island didn't disappear! They upgraded to A-20B havocs. I was wondering what happened to my A-24's and how those havocs got loaded on there. This explains it all. Thanx.



Reg -> (6/8/2002 7:05:34 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HARD_SARGE
[B]
wish the 47 was in the path, instead of starting the path [/B][/QUOTE]

Valid request but I think the timing might be the issue.

I have a book "Angels Twenty",* an audiobiography by Ted Park who flew the P-39 extensively with the 41st FS, 35FG. He talks about picking up P-47C aircraft from Port Moresby for delivery to the squadron on New Year's day 1944. I appears that there were some available a bit earlier but the squadron was disappointed to get P-39Q's instead. He went to Melbourne to accept some P-47Ds later that year.

The entire group including the P-38 squadrons ended up with P-47s in the end.

* University of Queensland Press, 1994, ISBN 0 7022 2555 X
(An excellent read by the way).

Cheers,
Reg.

P.S. My kingdom for a good spell chequer.....



Capt Cliff -> Question for Rich (6/8/2002 7:23:41 AM)

Rich,

What about the B-24D's? I got 30 of them in the pool, who gets them? I also have 3 B-17E groups with a total of 5 planes. Can I upgrade them to B-24D's? Will they up grade to B-24D's? A B-17 squadron with 1 airplane is less than useless!

Sure would be nice to be able to select when to upgrade!



Rich Dionne -> (6/8/2002 7:27:11 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by juliet7bravo
[B]Rich...do you already have a dbase completed on units before I spend alot more time on it? If not, I'll continue to slog along with it. [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry, at this point, there are no text files separate from the actual database files. Perhaps in the future, but right now I'm pretty busy correcting the OOB errors you guys have pointed out and working on the massive database files for WITP.

Rich



Capt Cliff -> (6/8/2002 7:38:04 AM)

Rich,

No problem! Those 30 B-24's make me drool! Could use them to pound Rabaul! Must be for "Dugout Doug's" private staff!



Rich Dionne -> (6/8/2002 7:52:17 AM)

Capt. Cliff,

Just hold on until September 42; you start to receive some airgroups flying B-24D's (320th BS, 321st BS, etc). That pool buildup will come in handy when you start to pulverize the japanese on Rabaul with these units! You should also start getting some B-17E replacements in September 42.

Regards,

Rich



panda124c -> Re: Re: Aircraft Upgrade Paths! (6/9/2002 9:25:18 PM)

Personelly I don't want the Hudsons to be upgraded to Beaufighters. They are the only twin engine bomber that can hit Rabaul from PM other than B-25s. I always thought that the B-26 could bomb Rabaul from PM but I get the message that it's too far.

Also it's strange that the P-39D's don't upgrade to P-47, since they were both uses for ground attack in the SW Pacific.



HARD_SARGE -> (6/10/2002 2:55:09 AM)

yes it is indeed a shame the P-39 doesn't upgrade to the P-47, the P-47 is a real monster (but the P-39/P-400 will eat up AG, so they are worth haveing none the less)

I finally got my 2 P-47's squadrons, put them on sweep missions over Kavieng, haveing shut down the IJN and there supply runs are a mess, the major bases are out of suppy

first sweep of the day, they nailed around 15 planes destroyed on the ground with close to the same damaged, and killed 2350 men, I was in shock

the 2nd sweep came in, killing even more planes on the ground and scroll down the report and they claim 2700 men killed

close to 30 destroyed planes and 5000 men, a very nice sweep

one other sweep I had the report state 1900 men killed, and another one claimed 1100, but most were in the 200-500 range, not bad for 37 to 44 planes a sweep

(of course, the bases being out of supply, weak to no AA, and no fighter cover, may help these numbers out)

HARD_Sarge



Reg -> Re: Aircraft Upgrade Paths! (6/10/2002 6:28:52 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pbear
[B]Personelly I don't want the Hudsons to be upgraded to Beaufighters. They are the only twin engine bomber that can hit Rabaul from PM other than B-25s. I always thought that the B-26 could bomb Rabaul from PM but I get the message that it's too far.[/B][/QUOTE]

I do not think this is unhistorical. The last delivery of this aircraft type was May 1942 and there was considerable attrition of aircraft amongst the nine squadrons that operated the type. It was always intended to replace this aircraft with locally produced Beauforts as production ramped up. Hudsons were only purchased as an interim measure due to delays in the Beaufort program.

Every Hudson unit was historically re-equipped with Beauforts during this period but as was mentioned in another thread, these may have been immediately upgraded to Beaufighters by the game engine.

I just checked the top of this thread and the Beaufighter is listed as the upgrade. That's definitely an error. Over to you Rich......

[QUOTE]
Also it's strange that the P-39D's don't upgrade to P-47, since they were both uses for ground attack in the SW Pacific. [/B][/QUOTE]

As I posted above, some P-39 units were indeed re-equipped with P-47s. The issue is how many units followed this path since the game can only model so much before becoming unweildy.

I'm afraid we are going to have to accept some compromises so how important do you feel this issue is??

Cheers,
Reg.



Rich Dionne -> (6/10/2002 7:30:51 AM)

Yes, the Hudson squadrons did convert to Beauforts, so this does look like an error in the upgrade paths. I'll look into it.

Regarding P-47's, the 348th FG was the first group in the Pacific to use the P-47 (June 43). The only other group to use P-47's in '43 was the 35th FG, which started conversion from P-38's to P-47's in November / December '43. We'll definitely need P-38's and P-47's on the same upgrade path in WITP, but there is lesser value in UV, consdering the game timeframe. However, I will reconsider this.

Regards,

Rich



Supervisor -> Minor ship name mis-spelling (6/12/2002 12:23:13 AM)

I didn't want to start a new thread just for this. I couldn't find the thread I was looking for, but I thought this would work just about as well. :p

I noticed that the Japanese DD Matuskaze has a transposition in it. It should be Matsukaze.

FYI



Beckles -> Re: Aircraft Upgrade Paths! (6/12/2002 1:32:45 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Dionne
[B]
101) P-39D Airacobra --> 105) P-38G Lightning

103) P-40E Kittyhawk

105) P-38G Lightning --> 106) P-38J Lightning
106) P-38J Lightning

142) P-39D Airacobra --> 103) P-40E Kittyhawk
[/B][/QUOTE]

Assuming there's not a typo in the original above quoted lines, is there a way to tell in the game if a squadron has '101' or '142' P-39D's so you would know when they are eligible to be requipped?



von Murrin -> (6/12/2002 1:36:43 AM)

The 142 line is for RAAF Squadrons.



worr -> (6/12/2002 2:19:28 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Dionne
[B]Regarding P-47's, the 348th FG was the first group in the Pacific to use the P-47 (June 43). The only other group to use P-47's in '43 was the 35th FG, which started conversion from P-38's to P-47's in November / December '43. We'll definitely need P-38's and P-47's on the same upgrade path in WITP, but there is lesser value in UV, consdering the game timeframe. However, I will reconsider this.[/B][/QUOTE]

Rich any ideas about the 475th FG--Satan's Angels? Activated May 15th 1943...they were the tip of the spear for clearing out New Guinea. They remained an all P38 group....and were the most successful fighter group in the SWPAC.

Their first base of combat operation was PM....and first targets were Lae. Squadrons were 431st 432nd 433rd.

Worr, out



vils -> Re: Re: Aircraft Upgrade Paths! (6/12/2002 8:01:13 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yamamoto
[B]

Just want to confirm that this is not a typo. It seems strange that they turn into B-24’s instead of the B17g.

Yamamoto [/B][/QUOTE]

I guess the G version went to the 8th in europe where it was far more needed..



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