1.07 (Full Version)

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Dancing Bear -> 1.07 (8/13/2009 3:15:33 AM)

Marshall,
we have a group ready to give this game another try after a long hiatus. We were waiting for 1.06.03, but there are some good fixes and improvements in 1.07 that might be worth waiting for. Are we still looking at a 1.07 release real soon after 1.06.03 goes official? I'm wondering if we should wait.

(Likely we'll start with 1.06.03 as it takes a while for the game to pick up momentum, but it would be nice to know 1.07 will be out soon, and about the security improvements)



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/13/2009 12:17:25 PM)

I am intending to lock down 1.07 in the next day or 2 which means it should be close to BETA at that time. I could see the 1.07 BETA maybe days/week after the 1.06 general release. 1.07 is smaller and less complicated so I'm hoping this one will be much quicker out the door.



Dancing Bear -> RE: 1.07 (8/13/2009 12:41:09 PM)

That would be great. The sooner the better.

Are you still working on PBEM security, or have are your sights on other horizons?



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/13/2009 12:56:22 PM)

I think we're there on PBEM security. I just answered your earlier hiding chits question. I'm just simply playing the game now to make sure I really did not mess anything up.





pzgndr -> RE: 1.07 (8/13/2009 5:18:10 PM)

The $64 question is whether combined dip/eco phases can make it into v1.07 or have to wait.  Rumor has it a few players might appreciate this.  Just guessing of course... [;)]



Jimmer -> RE: 1.07 (8/13/2009 8:35:32 PM)

I would start using 1.06 when released. 1.07 has a good set of features, but none are compelling (IMO). 1.06 is, IMO very playable.



JavaJoe -> RE: 1.07 (8/14/2009 12:44:36 AM)

Is there be an option for a player to control more than one nation?

I've been out of the loop for awhile.

If not will there be?

Thanks,
Joe



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/14/2009 1:57:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

The $64 question is whether combined dip/eco phases can make it into v1.07 or have to wait.  Rumor has it a few players might appreciate this.  Just guessing of course... [;)]


Well it will not be 1.07 for sure because she's almost locked down. BUT I am doing a small feasibility study ;-)





Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/14/2009 1:58:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JavaJoe

Is there be an option for a player to control more than one nation?

I've been out of the loop for awhile.

If not will there be?

Thanks,
Joe


Joe:

Great to hear ya! Been a while! Hope all is well?

A player to control more than one nation? Are you talking about UMP rules?






Dancing Bear -> RE: 1.07 (8/15/2009 1:15:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I am intending to lock down 1.07 in the next day or 2 which means it should be close to BETA at that time. I could see the 1.07 BETA maybe days/week after the 1.06 general release. 1.07 is smaller and less complicated so I'm hoping this one will be much quicker out the door.


Marshall, you have been a programming fiend this week. You gotta need a beer or two this weekend.



Dancing Bear -> RE: 1.07 (8/15/2009 11:58:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Well it will not be 1.07 for sure because she's almost locked down. BUT I am doing a small feasibility study ;-)



Hi Marshall
If you are looking at this, keep in mind that you might be able to trick the game into being simultaneous without a large re-coding effort. Previously discussed was the idea of simply changing the order of file loading for each player.

So, with one exception, no matter which player you are, as soon as you receive/complete the last land (or eco) phase, the game tells you that you are first in the diplomacy turn. However, when you save your diplomacy turn, the game saves it as it would appear in the regular sequence for other nations (i.e. 2nd, 3rd, etc). You send your file to the other players.

The exception is the last player in the diplomacy phase, who can not load his turn until he has everyone else’s. (This is done so that there is resolution of the diplomacy phase in the diplomacy phase). He loads up all the other players files in the regular sequence, and then does his diplomacy. Diplomacy is resolved on his machine and he sends out the resolved diplomacy phase.

All the other 6 players only need load the final resolved diplomacy phase, so they can see the results. They do not get to load the files from any other player (neatly reducing the number of file exchanges required; two birds, one stone).

Pretty much the same principle applies for economics, however, there no resolution of the eco phase, and you won’t need to hold back the last players turn or, for that matter, any file exchanges between players for eco. This could allow a player to go from loading the last land phase to economics to diplomacy in back to back turns. Very fast, and very few file exchanges.

Alternatively, you might consider moving all the economic functions into the diplomacy phase, since the game board/nation incomes do not change until the end of the diplomacy phase anyways, so there is no need for a separate eco phase.



JavaJoe -> RE: 1.07 (8/15/2009 6:39:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis


quote:

ORIGINAL: JavaJoe

Is there be an option for a player to control more than one nation?

I've been out of the loop for awhile.

If not will there be?

Thanks,
Joe


Joe:

Great to hear ya! Been a while! Hope all is well?

A player to control more than one nation? Are you talking about UMP rules?






All is well, working a lot of OT lately.

Yes of course the UMP rules!!

Glad to see you in good spirits, I hear they are going to release you from the asylum soon....[8|]



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/17/2009 1:58:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I am intending to lock down 1.07 in the next day or 2 which means it should be close to BETA at that time. I could see the 1.07 BETA maybe days/week after the 1.06 general release. 1.07 is smaller and less complicated so I'm hoping this one will be much quicker out the door.


Marshall, you have been a programming fiend this week. You gotta need a beer or two this weekend.


10-4 DB! I just spent the weekend Trout fishing in North Arkansas! It was Awesome! I never touched a keyboard! My batteries are recharged!




Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/17/2009 1:59:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Well it will not be 1.07 for sure because she's almost locked down. BUT I am doing a small feasibility study ;-)



Hi Marshall
If you are looking at this, keep in mind that you might be able to trick the game into being simultaneous without a large re-coding effort. Previously discussed was the idea of simply changing the order of file loading for each player.

So, with one exception, no matter which player you are, as soon as you receive/complete the last land (or eco) phase, the game tells you that you are first in the diplomacy turn. However, when you save your diplomacy turn, the game saves it as it would appear in the regular sequence for other nations (i.e. 2nd, 3rd, etc). You send your file to the other players.

The exception is the last player in the diplomacy phase, who can not load his turn until he has everyone else’s. (This is done so that there is resolution of the diplomacy phase in the diplomacy phase). He loads up all the other players files in the regular sequence, and then does his diplomacy. Diplomacy is resolved on his machine and he sends out the resolved diplomacy phase.

All the other 6 players only need load the final resolved diplomacy phase, so they can see the results. They do not get to load the files from any other player (neatly reducing the number of file exchanges required; two birds, one stone).

Pretty much the same principle applies for economics, however, there no resolution of the eco phase, and you won’t need to hold back the last players turn or, for that matter, any file exchanges between players for eco. This could allow a player to go from loading the last land phase to economics to diplomacy in back to back turns. Very fast, and very few file exchanges.

Alternatively, you might consider moving all the economic functions into the diplomacy phase, since the game board/nation incomes do not change until the end of the diplomacy phase anyways, so there is no need for a separate eco phase.



Yea, I remember this. I think I will be playing around with this sometime this week. I am going to create a new build and see what I can do...



Dancing Bear -> RE: 1.07 (8/18/2009 12:15:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Yea, I remember this. I think I will be playing around with this sometime this week. I am going to create a new build and see what I can do...



This is very good news. I'm hoping that if you can think it through first, it is relatively straight forward.



DCWhitworth -> RE: 1.07 (8/19/2009 9:49:18 AM)

Has the issue of the maximum number of garrisons been resolved in 1.07 ? I can't see it on the Mantis list.

I suspect it hasn't been much reported because few PBEM games have got as far as we have (late 1810) but it is becoming a serious issue with garrison now vanishing and awkward work-arounds having to be used.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/19/2009 12:27:43 PM)

David:

I have looked at this BUT I still do not have a way to allow the change to migrate to existing games so even if I added it today it could only be flipped to new games! Not much good to you guys with ongoing games. I will have to design a way for this to integrate. Too many PBEM games have been going on for a LONG time so I must pay attention to be inclusive of those games! I'll keep you posted. BTW: It should still be on Mantis???




Dancing Bear -> RE: 1.07 (8/19/2009 12:42:32 PM)

If the problem is run away minor state garrisons in outside their home territory, maybe we could limit the number of garrisons outside of the home territory to a certain number or certain areas (i.e. maybe adjacent to the minors home, or 5 garrisons per minor mp).



DCWhitworth -> RE: 1.07 (8/19/2009 12:54:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
David:

I have looked at this BUT I still do not have a way to allow the change to migrate to existing games so even if I added it today it could only be flipped to new games! Not much good to you guys with ongoing games. I will have to design a way for this to integrate. Too many PBEM games have been going on for a LONG time so I must pay attention to be inclusive of those games! I'll keep you posted. BTW: It should still be on Mantis???


I meant it wasn't on the list of fixes for 1.07 on Mantis, not that I couldn't find the logged issues, sorry for the confusion.

I think this will increasingly become an issue as more games progress to later stages.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/19/2009 8:07:55 PM)

In fact, I am hearing about this more and more since more games are getting deeper (A good thing) but I still have no way to implement this yet :-0 and preseve existing games.





pzgndr -> RE: 1.07 (8/19/2009 8:18:04 PM)

quote:

I have looked at this BUT I still do not have a way to allow the change to migrate to existing games so even if I added it today it could only be flipped to new games! Not much good to you guys with ongoing games.


What about an offline conversion, where the pbem game host emails you an ongoing game file and you convert it to the updated game version?



DCWhitworth -> RE: 1.07 (8/19/2009 10:29:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
In fact, I am hearing about this more and more since more games are getting deeper (A good thing) but I still have no way to implement this yet :-0 and preseve existing games.


Marshall. Please forgive me for labouring at this, but I can't see the issue here.

Database changes have been made in the past I believe and yes this means saved games are no longer backwardly compatible with older version of the software, but is this an issue ?

Or are you saying that the conversion process is just too major to package into the main program ? In which case is there an issue with producing a one-off conversion utility ? It might not be elegant but if there is no other way what can you do ?



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/20/2009 1:43:46 PM)

David:

The changes in the past have been data formatting and not data amounts. I need to extend the limit and I just do not have a graceful way to do this yet. I'm not saying that it cannot be done just that I haven't figured it out yet! I'm not giving up yet.



Jimmer -> RE: 1.07 (8/20/2009 4:56:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Well it will not be 1.07 for sure because she's almost locked down. BUT I am doing a small feasibility study ;-)



Hi Marshall
If you are looking at this, keep in mind that you might be able to trick the game into being simultaneous without a large re-coding effort. Previously discussed was the idea of simply changing the order of file loading for each player.

So, with one exception, no matter which player you are, as soon as you receive/complete the last land (or eco) phase, the game tells you that you are first in the diplomacy turn. However, when you save your diplomacy turn, the game saves it as it would appear in the regular sequence for other nations (i.e. 2nd, 3rd, etc). You send your file to the other players.

The exception is the last player in the diplomacy phase, who can not load his turn until he has everyone else’s. (This is done so that there is resolution of the diplomacy phase in the diplomacy phase). He loads up all the other players files in the regular sequence, and then does his diplomacy. Diplomacy is resolved on his machine and he sends out the resolved diplomacy phase.

All the other 6 players only need load the final resolved diplomacy phase, so they can see the results. They do not get to load the files from any other player (neatly reducing the number of file exchanges required; two birds, one stone).

Pretty much the same principle applies for economics, however, there no resolution of the eco phase, and you won’t need to hold back the last players turn or, for that matter, any file exchanges between players for eco. This could allow a player to go from loading the last land phase to economics to diplomacy in back to back turns. Very fast, and very few file exchanges.

Alternatively, you might consider moving all the economic functions into the diplomacy phase, since the game board/nation incomes do not change until the end of the diplomacy phase anyways, so there is no need for a separate eco phase.



Yea, I remember this. I think I will be playing around with this sometime this week. I am going to create a new build and see what I can do...


I would do this in two phases:

First, break apart the powers, but leave them in the same order.

Second, change the ordering/simultanaity.

This will most likely save you headaches over doing both phases at once.



Jimmer -> RE: 1.07 (8/20/2009 4:58:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear
Alternatively, you might consider moving all the economic functions into the diplomacy phase, since the game board/nation incomes do not change until the end of the diplomacy phase anyways, so there is no need for a separate eco phase.

This isn't quite right. Economics depends on whether GB is trading with a person or not. But, that can change in the diplomacy phase. It would be a very tricky exercise in coding to get this correct. In fact, it would be impossible, unless I miss my guess, with the current structure of the game.



Jimmer -> RE: 1.07 (8/20/2009 5:01:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

In fact, I am hearing about this more and more since more games are getting deeper (A good thing) but I still have no way to implement this yet :-0 and preseve existing games.


Then don't. Implement it only for new games. Then, players can decide whether they want to start over (without the limit) or keep going (but be broken).



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.07 (8/20/2009 5:05:07 PM)

I wish it were that easy Jimmer but I must pay attention to those games in progress! It may have to be this way but it would be a little early to decide that now.



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