John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (Full Version)

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JRodda -> John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/16/2009 12:13:23 AM)

I quite by accident stumbled across this recently-released game on the web, and felt like a kid at Christmas when I received it in the mail! If any of you have ever seen one of your favorite battles/campaigns released as a game, then you know exactly how I feel. I would add that my interest in the Siege of Dien Bien Phu and the French experience in Vietnam is due largely to the two great Bernard Fall books, 'Hell in a Very Small Place' and 'Street Without Joy'. If any of you out there have not read them, they are a must-have in any historian's collection.

I'm about a third of the way through the scripted battle scenarios, and I have to say that thus far the game has been fantastic! It plays a little like JT's great WW2 Campaign series, but it's even more intense due to the increased micromanagement needed in managing your forces at the squad level. Also, the low-level scale vastly increases the realism and makes for one of the most engaging and intense gaming experiences I've ever had. You really need to put your war helmet on for this game!!

Also, for a wargame the graphics are great (see screen shot). I especially like the unit faces. The artist did a great job.

The game has a number of campaigns which I'm assuming are similar to the WW2 Campaign Series campaigns, but for now I've been playing the scripted missions in chronological order, and they have been a blast (literally and figuratively ;o)!! Indeed, I'm hard-pressed to think of a scenario I didn't like. There was one cool early one right after WW2 where your French forces are trying to nail some Viet Minh units in training along the 'Street Without Joy'. As the French, not only do you have an armored riverboat and a landing craft, but also a couple of ex-Japanese light tanks.

In another you have three large river transports that are bombarded by the Viet Minh from the shore. In this one you have to land your forces and suppress the Viets, then quickly move your riverboats (with their non-combatant passengers) off the other end of the map before the clock runs out and without getting any of them sunk by Viet shore guns.

There is also a really fun land convoy escort mission that has a lot of replay value due to the random entry and placement of Viet forces and the traps and obstacles along the road.

There have also been a number of Rorke's Drift (or should I say 'Beau Geste'?? lol) desperate defenses against massive Viet Minh human wave attacks. These have been real nail biters, often going down to the last turn and with just a few squad remnants remaining of 2-3 men each.

I think my favorites thus far have been the defense of Mao Khe scenarios. In one you have modest French forces tasked with relieving the pro-French Viets besieged at the top of the map. Gosh, this one was as bad as the relief of Korsun!!! lol In the following one you have a polyglot force of Frenchmen, Moroccans/Algerians, and friendly Viets holding a large compound against a substantial Viet Minh attack (see attached screen shot). This battle was my defensive masterpiece!!! :o)

Anyway, needless to say I highly recommend the game; possibly the best, most intense and engaging wargame I've ever played, and heck, I haven't even gotten to the Dien Bien Phu battles yet!!!! FYI, I know it's a great game because I've been occasionally breaking my rule of not playing any computer games on nights when I have to get up for work the next day!!!! lol

Dansons la Carmagnole
Vive le son,
Vive le son,
Dansons la Carmagnole
Vive le son du canon!!!! ;o)





[image]local://upfiles/32112/BC8E58CED5914BE7926EEFCF4814EA8C.jpg[/image]



junk2drive -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/16/2009 12:16:28 AM)

If you find that you enjoy the SB series, the regulars hang out at the blitz, gamesquad, and wargamer (under HPS).



E -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/16/2009 12:51:28 AM)

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Erik Rutins -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/16/2009 1:44:07 AM)

Where is that avaiable, E?



E -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/16/2009 2:32:15 AM)

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invernomuto -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/16/2009 8:07:37 PM)

Very interesting mod, SB (eagle strike) is a great game, with this mod the map looks a lot clearer



JRodda -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/17/2009 3:45:18 AM)

I admit that I do like the bright color scheme of ASL, but I don't think it's better than the JT Squad Leader graphics. One thing I really like about the SL rendering is the fantastic artwork of the soldier's faces. I think it gives the game a lot of atmosphere.

I also like the fact that the scenarios are very well-designed. Although it is of course the same game system, I've been finding that no two scenarios have been too much alike.

FYI, here's a screen shot of my most recent battle - the defense of Na Son by the French Foreign Legion. Did I say Beau Geste????? [;)]

Again, a truly marvelous game. John Tiller and his team did a magnificent job. [&o]

[image]local://upfiles/32112/356ADF31B2064232B1F554D3F2481CE5.jpg[/image]



V22 Osprey -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/17/2009 4:14:31 AM)

You've made me want this game now...



Hertston -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/17/2009 1:28:27 PM)

The counter art definitely looks a lot better than the earlier games; I noticed the same with Soviet Afghan. I was truly dire early on and rather let the side down, but the series is quite smartly presented now.

V22.. in case you are unfamiliar with the series in general there's some superb replacement art for the WW2 titles floating about from 'Volcanoman' (who did all the Panzer Campaigns stuff). Sadly, though, I'm not aware of any for Korea or the 'Nam games other than a half-finished set for SB: Vietnam.

BTW, that sign pic for WitP:AE is terrific!



eastwindrain -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/17/2009 1:52:26 PM)

The counter art is an absolute must for these games any other map art is a bonus, all gratefully received.
Hope this is only the first installment and you complete the series.

Have six of the Squad Battles games and they are very very stable, smooth and well supported with patches, the latest which enable the games to run without the need to insert the game disc in the drive.




V22 Osprey -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/17/2009 3:39:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

The counter art definitely looks a lot better than the earlier games; I noticed the same with Soviet Afghan. I was truly dire early on and rather let the side down, but the series is quite smartly presented now.

V22.. in case you are unfamiliar with the series in general there's some superb replacement art for the WW2 titles floating about from 'Volcanoman' (who did all the Panzer Campaigns stuff). Sadly, though, I'm not aware of any for Korea or the 'Nam games other than a half-finished set for SB: Vietnam.

BTW, that sign pic for WitP:AE is terrific!


Thanks, my sig was made for me by rogueusmc.I love the squad battles series, I have Winter War and advance of the reich.This recent title I wasn't interested, but with this review it's start to look like a fun game.



pvthudson01 -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/17/2009 7:48:21 PM)

Im hoping for good things from http://www.matrixgames.com/products/349/details/Mark.H..Walker's.Lock.'n.Load:.Heroes.of.Stalingrad



JRodda -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/18/2009 12:41:25 AM)

I admit that I am a little biased by my interest in the French-Indochina war in general and the siege of Dien Bien Phu in particular, but again, I really like this very intense and engaging gaming system. I would also mention that for those of you like me whom had not played any of John Tiller's Squad Leader series, it had a moderate learning curve. A little patience, however, will reward you with many hours of fun, exciting, and intelligent game play.

As an aside, I can almost guarantee that like me, you will want to play this game after reading the Bernard Fall books; 'Street Without Joy' and 'Hell in a Very Small Place'. They are some of the best military history I've ever read.

You know, I'm enjoying this game so much that it's making me want to resurrect my idea for an historical novel on Genevieve deGalard, the 'Angel' of Dien Bien Phu.

Cheers! [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/32112/DD4720D27E764C4691970E25A7E4267C.jpg[/image]

[image]local://upfiles/32112/9977E29E3111449AB859A5D36FEBCE7F.jpg[/image]



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/18/2009 3:19:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01

Im hoping for good things from http://www.matrixgames.com/products/349/details/Mark.H..Walker's.Lock.'n.Load:.Heroes.of.Stalingrad



I too am anxiously awaiting this title. Never have I played L'n'L, but it looks great. Love the dice rollin'. Adds to the immersion. Everyone should look at the videos posted on their Products page. Awesome!

mo reb



V22 Osprey -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/18/2009 3:30:34 AM)

Lock n Load PC has the potential to give Squad Battles a run for it's money, but with Squad Battles being on it's 11th title, This means the Squad battles series has much more to offer, plus you can't beat the editors.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/18/2009 7:39:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Where is that avaiable, E?


Apparently it's not yet... I uploaded it to http://tfe4.wordpress.com/ (the new Task Force Echo site) about a month ago, but he was waiting for the ability to upload files to the site, as he had recently taken it over.

However, you can get the original (for Eagles Strike only) by "Franzi" (see example below) that mine is a variation of at his Battles Project site...

http://battlesproject.ifrance.com/battlesproject/ (under mod graphisme)

The biggest differences between the two are that his weapons are cooler (I didn't want to try and figure out who would _actually_ receive which graphic for four games), and his uses whatever graphic for whatever unit (he wanted more ASL counters on screen, whereas mine has two classes... squads and leaders). His is also for Eagles Strike only, but it does mod the game to add more nationalities (I did one each for Advance of the Reich, Eagles Strike, The Proud and the Few, and Pacific War).

The most important item to note is that 99% of the art & concept was done by Franzi. I just wanted what I perceived as more functionality (i.e. I wanted leaders to have leader graphics... see below versus above), so I did these up about 4 or 5 months ago and finally got around to asking Franzi's okay to share my version.

Actually, if you really want mine, I can get them to you in two 5mb emails (but ALWAYS backup your originals first).


[image]local://upfiles/26541/61EE1C0F535043F79DD79E4B78A1F32A.jpg[/image]


Now this just 'feels' right to me.....




Grell -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/18/2009 8:36:32 PM)

I love the French Foreign Legion. I have a friend whose father fought at Dien Bien Phu, too bad he died of a stroke.

Regards,

Grell



JRodda -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/19/2009 3:29:38 AM)

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen the vaunted French Foreign Legion in a game before.  They are very cool to command in DBF, with a solid 'A' morale. 

I think one of the reasons for my fascination with Dien Bien Phu is it's a great example of good troops being put into a bad (albeit no win???) situation by questionable political leadership.  I'm reminded of something General Sir John Hackett one said about how "Soldiers are not set up as slayers, but rather to be slain."  The men are put in harm's way for political agendas.  :o(  BTW, I was surprised to find on the BBC that France still has one of the biggest military budgets in the world.  Go figure???

Someone mentioned 'Heroes of Stalingrad' in this thread, and yes, I would be very interested in purchasing that game too.  The trouble is, development seems to be proceeding at a snail's pace.  As someone noted on the 'Heroes of Stalingrad' Forum, it's been "All quiet on the Eastern Front".  Gosh, I think we'll see Starcraft Two sooner than we will this game!!!  [:-] 





Jason Petho -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/19/2009 3:37:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JRodda

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen the vaunted French Foreign Legion in a game before.  They are very cool to command in DBF, with a solid 'A' morale. 


You'll see them in Modern Wars: Volume I.

Platoon level though, 250 metre hexes.

Jason Petho




Titanwarrior89 -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/20/2009 2:48:39 AM)

Decided to load up and play Korea-You made me want to play it again. Nice little game.[:D]



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/20/2009 2:52:43 AM)

Korea is the only one I own, but I've never played it. Looks rather good though. I have more games than time. Not a bad thing really.

mo reb



TheBigRedOne -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/20/2009 9:14:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Where is that avaiable, E?


Apparently it's not yet... I uploaded it to http://tfe4.wordpress.com/ (the new Task Force Echo site) about a month ago, but he was waiting for the ability to upload files to the site, as he had recently taken it over.

However, you can get the original (for Eagles Strike only) by "Franzi" (see example below) that mine is a variation of at his Battles Project site...

http://battlesproject.ifrance.com/battlesproject/ (under mod graphisme)

The biggest differences between the two are that his weapons are cooler (I didn't want to try and figure out who would _actually_ receive which graphic for four games), and his uses whatever graphic for whatever unit (he wanted more ASL counters on screen, whereas mine has two classes... squads and leaders). His is also for Eagles Strike only, but it does mod the game to add more nationalities (I did one each for Advance of the Reich, Eagles Strike, The Proud and the Few, and Pacific War).

The most important item to note is that 99% of the art & concept was done by Franzi. I just wanted what I perceived as more functionality (i.e. I wanted leaders to have leader graphics... see below versus above), so I did these up about 4 or 5 months ago and finally got around to asking Franzi's okay to share my version.

Actually, if you really want mine, I can get them to you in two 5mb emails (but ALWAYS backup your originals first).



No-one's more frustrated than I am right now in terms of the sluggishness of getting your ASL conversions uploaded, E!

I'm working on it!

Here's a DBP shot with some updated graphics, using some SB graphics files lifted from IronX's Red Star over Europe MOD.





E -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/20/2009 10:53:18 PM)

.



TheBigRedOne -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/21/2009 4:19:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBigRedOne

No-one's more frustrated than I am right now in terms of the sluggishness



I'm not frustrated, I was a little surprised, at time of the question put to me. As it turns out, there is still no hurry, if at all (there has only been one request for them, and it was fulfilled).



I fully expected to have the issue resolved in a matter of days, not weeks. I'm taking matters into my own hands at this point. I'll give you a heads up when they are uploaded, hopefully by next week sometime...



eastwindrain -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/21/2009 6:14:22 PM)

Well I did'nt like to ask " E " but could you send me a copy of your mod as well, had some SL games decades ago but the growing mass of rules stifled my enjoyment. Have the first 6 Squad Battles titles which as you say are great games but would prefer squad on map graphics instead of heads and shoulders.



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/21/2009 8:19:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowlander

... Have the first 6 Squad Battles titles which as you say are great games but would prefer squad on map graphics instead of heads and shoulders.



Would you be interested in selling any of them? I bought Korea on e-bay for 15 bucks but missed buying the ones I wanted.

Thanks,
mo reb



eastwindrain -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/21/2009 8:51:55 PM)

Sorry not for sale especially with this game transforming mod by E lurking on the horizon.
Must admit I'm well into AE but these games are good for a change of pace.

Why don't you continue to watch e-bay as games keep popping up.
But you will have to compete with me for Winter War and The Spanish Civil War.




eastwindrain -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/23/2009 9:56:06 AM)

This mod should be titled " Squad Battles meets the 21st Century " what a brilliant game transformation.



JRodda -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/23/2009 4:13:56 PM)

I finally got to the first of the 'Battle of Dien Bien Phu' scenarios proper; the Viet Minh assault on the Beatrice fortifications. The scenario is entitled 'This is no time for a case of nerves!', and I must say that truer words were never spoken. A large force of Foreign Legionnaires must hold off an even larger force of Viet Minh for 15 turns, and I must say that the battle is not for the squeamish or faint of heart. I always said I wanted to play a game on this, one of my favorite battles, and on hindsight it may be a case of "be careful what you wish for, you might get it".

Anyway, I'm about half way through the Beatrice scenario and it has been quite an intense challenge. The Viet Minh breached my forward trench line around turn five and now are threatening my second line. That line needs to hold for 4-5 turns if I'm going to have any chance of victory. Gosh, not since some of the Starcraft battles have I been put through the ringer so much by a game. In fact, the Beatrice battle reminds me of the Terrans holding off waves of Zerg!!!! [;)]

Vive la France!!!



[image]local://upfiles/32112/592720EF33A04B6B944F9DF4182797D6.jpg[/image]



wodin -> RE: John Tiller's 'Dien Bien Phu' (8/24/2009 3:02:53 PM)

Great series.



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