RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> Tech Support



Message

pzgndr -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/1/2009 11:11:59 PM)

quote:

Other columns should allow the user to

A- Forage with movement.
B- Forage without movement.
C- Draw supply at cost listed.
D- Abort the whole auto-forage process.



Jimmer, this highlights a point I was trying to make that this is not a simple binary choice. Either auto-forage (A/B) or auto-supply (C) as defaults could have worked, but either which way players would have to be able to manually select alternative choices, however clunky that might be. Auto-forage is the preferable default because in an unforgiving PC game it saves the player money (ie, the least cost option) unless he overrides the default. Of course the only problem is the case being discussed here where auto-forage prevents seige after battle, and this specific problem needs to be fixed. That requires an adjustment to the current model, not an overhaul because it is "wrong."



NeverMan -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 1:39:23 AM)

I don't see a reason to give the player the option to auto-forage twice, it's needless and redundant.

You keep using the term "binary", I'm not sure you know what it means, maybe some other word choice would be better.




pzgndr -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 2:38:07 AM)

I understand binary, thank you.  You do have a point though; when all's said and done a unit either forages or pays for supply.  But there are more than just two situations for players to consider when making the decision to forage or pay for supply, and Jimmer's table idea would be helpful for reviewing pros and cons.  If the depot supply limits could ever be introduced, that would be even more complex. 



NeverMan -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 3:33:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

I understand binary, thank you.  You do have a point though; when all's said and done a unit either forages or pays for supply.  But there are more than just two situations for players to consider when making the decision to forage or pay for supply, and Jimmer's table idea would be helpful for reviewing pros and cons.  If the depot supply limits could ever be introduced, that would be even more complex. 


I understand what you are saying and can see this point to a degree, though I still think it's pointless to offer something twice.

If the player doesn't auto-forage during his turn then the unit should be paid for by normal supply unless the unit is not within a valid supply chain or is within a valid supply chain but there are insufficient funds in which case the unit should forage, normally.

Maybe Marshall shouldn't let you end your phase if you don't have enough money to pay for supply, forcing players to go and pick corps to forage manually... again, this requires no addition to the UI (it's already cumbersome enough).



bresh -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 6:36:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer


quote:

ORIGINAL: bresh
I dont experience this, though havent done any testing, but this turn in one of my pbm-games(1.06.03).
I moved attacked 3 areas, 1 i myself foraged, the other 2 where eligble for supply and did not forage, giving me the option to siege after winning the land battle vs 1 Corps who withdrew. No autoforage happend for any of my corps, since i did not use the autoforage all key.
The area where i laid siege after battle, one of my corps was able to "autoforage" if it wanted by using all its moves, but it did not.

This is a different situation (I think). If you move into the besieging "box" in an area, then the game knows you cannot be allowed to forage using movement.

What Neverman ran into was similar, but there was a battle first. As a result of having the battle, he could not invoke the game's automatic rejection of foraging with movement, because he wasn't in the besiege "box".


Actually its quite similiar, since like i posted i moved my forces into the city to siege after the land battle where vs 1 corps who withdrew.

Regards
Bresh



Jimmer -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 4:15:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

I understand binary, thank you.  You do have a point though; when all's said and done a unit either forages or pays for supply.  But there are more than just two situations for players to consider when making the decision to forage or pay for supply, and Jimmer's table idea would be helpful for reviewing pros and cons.  If the depot supply limits could ever be introduced, that would be even more complex. 

It's actually two binary choices in succession:

Choose forage or supply.
Supply = complete
Forage requires second question: Choose "using movement" or "not using movement".

I added the "abort" option because it is quite possible that someone completely forgot about a stack, and needs to look the situation over before deciding.

The other elements in the table (cost, movement remaining, etc.) are niceties that might as well be there, but don't strictly have to be. But, I contend that if they are missing from the table, the "abort" option will be chosen more often (so the player can look at the strategic situation).



Jimmer -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 4:17:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bresh
Actually its quite similiar, since like i posted i moved my forces into the city to siege after the land battle where vs 1 corps who withdrew.

This could be a second flaw in the code (possibly a bug, or possibly another unforeseen end-case). If you see it again, I would capture the game and send it in.



Jimmer -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 4:20:55 PM)

NOTE: The reason I offered the "complicated" solution earlier is that such a methodology would prevent much of the "forgetfulness" of players, due to having all of the data on one screen. Right now, you can see all your corps, but you can't really tell much about them, and you can't DO anything to them.



NeverMan -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 6:59:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

NOTE: The reason I offered the "complicated" solution earlier is that such a methodology would prevent much of the "forgetfulness" of players, due to having all of the data on one screen. Right now, you can see all your corps, but you can't really tell much about them, and you can't DO anything to them.


Yes, this is correct, like I said earlier it allows the player to be "lazy", or what you call "forgetfullness", though it adds more bulky to, IMO, an already bulky UI.

So, I offer the solution that a player cannot end his land phase until all his corps can either 1) be paid for with normal supply or 2) have foraged. I haven't checked in awhile but does Marshall still have that popup box that asks if you want to end your phase even though some of your units are out of supply? If so, then if the person says "yes" then it should be assumed that either 1) the corps auto-forages or 2) the corps forages... either way I still STRONGLY suggest that this happens AFTER normal supply.



Jimmer -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 8:15:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
So, I offer the solution that a player cannot end his land phase until all his corps can either 1) be paid for with normal supply or 2) have foraged.

This solution would work, too. I doubt many people would want it, though. It does eliminate forgetfulness, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
I haven't checked in awhile but does Marshall still have that popup box that asks if you want to end your phase even though some of your units are out of supply?

Yes

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
If so, then if the person says "yes" then it should be assumed that either 1) the corps auto-forages or 2) the corps forages... either way I still STRONGLY suggest that this happens AFTER normal supply.

Despite the extra cost? I definitely don't want that to happen to me, and I'm not alone. I want it done the EiA way: Autoforage anything that can and doesn't have a battle & possible siege pending, and let me choose for the rest.

About the forages after supply: Does the game use the corps' unused movement?



NeverMan -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/2/2009 8:31:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer
Autoforage anything that can and doesn't have a battle & possible siege pending, and let me choose for the rest.



This works but it's not the way it's done now. This would also keeping from adding to the UI (if we are on the same page here).

I believe it does use the unused movement points... which is why I couldn't siege.



Jimmer -> RE: Cav/LightInf auto-foraging? (9/3/2009 5:29:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
This works but it's not the way it's done now. This would also keeping from adding to the UI (if we are on the same page here).

I believe it does use the unused movement points... which is why I couldn't siege.

Autoforage always uses movement points unless the corps being foraged is besieging a city. End of turn regular forage also always uses movement points.

You are correct that this is not how it happens now. The middle piece ("doesn't have a battle & possible siege pending") is not checked for at all. And, the last entry ("let me choose for the rest") has become "pay for everything in range of a depot, and forage the rest -- always using movement".

Current model:

1) Forage all corps which can safely forage, always using movement points.
2) Pay for those corps which cannot safely forage and are in range of a depot.
3) Forage all remaining corps, always using movement points.

My proposed model adds step 0) (or, 0.9, really), which prevents the hole you found from being an issue.

0) Check for potential battles with possible sieges present; prompt player for choice if any such places are found.

Note that by adding step 0) as part of the basic auto-forage (by button AND at end of turn), this allows the player to safely use the auto-forage button. Currently, if you have a corps in an army that can safely forage using movement, and you click the auto-forage button, that corps will forage using movement, and your potential siege is over right then and there. It doesn't have to wait for the end of the turn. So, it's really important to make this part of auto-forage (step 1, at the end of turn, and any time one clicks the button during the turn).



Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.75