5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (Full Version)

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The Gnome -> 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 1:46:54 AM)

I don't have time for the forums as much as I used to but the little I'm able to read, there are some critical differences between WitP and AE that may be difficult to see at first glance.

If you had to pick the top 5 things that every experienced WitP player should know that is changed in AE, what would they be?



Nomad -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 2:12:38 AM)

#1 there is a huge difference in a Transport TF and an amphibious TF

Transport are for moving from large ports to other large ports efficiently.

Amphibious are for invading enemy bases and for landing your troops on your small to nonexistent port bases


#2 Very different TF rearming, no longer can small ports load everything if they just have supply

#3 Port loading/unloading is very different and needs study.

#4 Airbase stacking uses engines and not aircraft. Plus the number of units is counted.

#5 Combat of all three kinds is different and FOW is much higher.



madflava13 -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 2:12:52 AM)

Logisitics. Logistics. Logistics.

Ports rule. Airfields are secondary.

Guard your replacement pools like they're gold.

Escort everything, everywhere.

There's never enough of anything, anywhere.




kfmiller41 -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 2:30:27 AM)

All so very very true[:)]



Mynok -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 2:31:12 AM)


Logistics could probably cover all 5. [:D]



Nomad -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 2:36:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Logistics could probably cover all 5. [:D]



Or 10. [:)]



Cap Mandrake -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 3:28:39 AM)

Ships that run out of fuel can no longer be magically propelled to their destination by friendly marine animals.

Under the right circumstance, torpedo bombers can operate from level 2 airfields.

Magic naval reconaisance out to 720 miles in all directions with 12 PBY's is gone.

Air groups now require more TLC. You can't just set fighters on 90% CAP for 8 mos straight.

Ditto bombers.

Lastly...be aware of the Allied Achilles heel...the Valdez..Fairbanks...Great Slave Lake Fishing Lodge...Edmonton potential invasion route.



The Gnome -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 3:29:35 AM)

Hahaha, so logistics then?

Yeah I'm only on the first turn (long campaign, as US vs AI), my god there is so much more.... stuff. I just feel overwhelmed right now.

All the air units with withdraw dates for one. The new ship types also have me scratching my head, I may really need the manual on this one. I didn't see an computer controlled subs option which I always used in WitP, so there is some added stuff.

- So when you guys say there isn't enough of anything anywhere, are there a lot fewer supply points generated?

- Do you US players do any ship conversions to start?

- Someone mentioned guarding my replacement pools like they're gold - what do you mean? Do you mean like replacement pilots and whatnot?

- Is there much of a change in pilot fatigue? Normally I set all my US based squadrons to about 80% training - will I be flying my pilots into the ground out of fatigue?

I ran a quick test turn before I was done entering my moves to get a feel for things. I noticed the AI kept KB near PH after turn one and nearly sank Lexington, there's a big change lol.




bradfordkay -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:05:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Ships that run out of fuel can no longer be magically propelled to their destination by friendly marine animals.




Yes they can... the difference is that now there are unfriendly marine animals hammering on the hulls of those fuel less ships, so they may not make it to port!



V22 Osprey -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:09:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Ships that run out of fuel can no longer be magically propelled to their destination by friendly marine animals.




[:D][:D][:D]



DrewMatrix -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:31:19 AM)

In WITP as the Allies my strategy was to put all the CVs in one TF, put all the fighters on CAP and let the IJ destroy their carrier air groups hammering against that invulnerable CAP. Now the occasional DB or TB gets through. At least in '42. I don't know they will be able to in a Phillipine Sea scenario.



jomni -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:31:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

I didn't see an computer controlled subs option which I always used in WitP, so there is some added stuff.


Subs can be toggled to computer control... in the TF screen.

quote:

- So when you guys say there isn't enough of anything anywhere, are there a lot fewer supply points generated?


Its not the number of supplies. Supply is abundant but concentrated in limited places.
There are not enough transports to ferry the supplies.
There are not enough large ports for efficient transport operations.
There are not enough DD's to escort supply TFs.
The list goes on.

quote:

I ran a quick test turn before I was done entering my moves to get a feel for things. I noticed the AI kept KB near PH after turn one and nearly sank Lexington, there's a big change lol.


Yup AI more aggressive. Which can also go against it like sending too many unescorted transports.



DrewMatrix -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:49:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

quote:

I ran a quick test turn before I was done entering my moves to get a feel for things. I noticed the AI kept KB near PH after turn one and nearly sank Lexington, there's a big change lol.


Yup AI more aggressive. Which can also go against it like sending too many unescorted transports.



In Allies vs IJ the aggressiveness of the AI is leading to a very bloody first few months. I suspect what will happen is huge losses by mi 1942 then the Allied building will replace what the IJ can't.

After the patch I plan to try Scen 2 the HI for that reason (more IJ industry to replace stuff)



Cap Mandrake -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 6:02:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Ships that run out of fuel can no longer be magically propelled to their destination by friendly marine animals.




Yes they can... the difference is that now there are unfriendly marine animals hammering on the hulls of those fuel less ships, so they may not make it to port!


Duh-duh..duh-duh..duh-duh



The Gnome -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 6:48:32 AM)

Does the new AI fix the suiciding transport behavior? Gosh that was frustrating



skrewball -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 7:45:43 AM)

I think a big thing to remember is that the map scale is DIFFERENT!

I'm still thinking in WitP terms..."I'm 5 hexs from the Allied CV TF, I'm the perfect striking distance"

Yeah...not so much...that's what we call a mulligan [:D]



Sheytan -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 8:15:38 AM)

? Specifically what is that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

Does the new AI fix the suiciding transport behavior? Gosh that was frustrating




rockmedic109 -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 10:39:56 AM)

1.  Eating is still required. 
2.  Caffeine is a good way to stay awake longer in order to get more turns in per day.
3.  You still have to spend time with your wife.  Those two hours you spend sleeping can be spent next to your wife.
4.  Play on a laptop is preferred to a desktop.  That way you can take the computer with you when nature calls.
5.  AE is even more addictive than WITP.  There is no cure.  The only support group is this forum unless you want to call divorce lawyers a support group for your wife.



John Lansford -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 12:43:38 PM)

The AI is much more aggressive, stubborn, and opportunistic than it was in WitP.  It will do stupid things but it will also surprise you too.

However, if it's current rate of major ship loss continues for much longer, it will have no surface fleet to speak of by the end of 1942.  Six CA's, a BB, a CVL, and about 2 dozen DD's have been sunk by my forces before the end of February 42, mostly in surface battles and by submarines.  Kongo was sunk by a 300 kg bomb dropped by a lucky Dutch pilot.



Icedawg -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 12:57:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheytan

? Specifically what is that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

Does the new AI fix the suiciding transport behavior? Gosh that was frustrating




He's referring to the way the AI would endlessly send unescorted transports with no air cover directly into a contested batttle zone. Needless to say, few of those transports made it to their destination and virtually none unloaded their cargo. It kind of made the game too easy. The AI would just set itself up for you to knock down without much effort. Not much fun.



m10bob -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 1:04:24 PM)

I used to be able to evac Phillipino infantry to Manado, kill the initial Japanese grunts, and after that first wave, the Jap AI kept sending rear echolon non-combatants to my warriors..No more.
Now, when I conquer in an initial battle, I better get reinforcements there ASAP because more combat types are coming, and their naval and air support will be with them in force!!![X(]



Hanzberger -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 1:44:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

1.  Eating is still required. 
2.  Caffeine is a good way to stay awake longer in order to get more turns in per day.
3.  You still have to spend time with your wife.  Those two hours you spend sleeping can be spent next to your wife.
4.  Play on a laptop is preferred to a desktop.  That way you can take the computer with you when nature calls.
5.  AE is even more addictive than WITP.  There is no cure.  The only support group is this forum unless you want to call divorce lawyers a support group for your wife.

And for some of us you still have to show up at work~! good one Rock [&o]



Chickenboy -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 2:05:26 PM)

Gnome,

I'd add the following to the list:

1. Different economic engine make greater use of fuel rather than oil as WiTP.

2. Different malaria zones, different cities that can produce their own supplies (e.g., Manila)

3. Different allied access to supplies and fuel in theater. IRL, the allies 'paused' for much of 1943 whilst they built up their offensive reserves of men, materiel, supplies and fuel. AE seems to be going this way as well. In WiTP, I'd be positively awash with supplies and fuel as the allies by early 1943.

4. PT boat effectiveness-see other threads on this topic.

5. Somewhat toned down "Netty" (Nells / Betties) that can teleport across hundreds of miles of open tractless ocean and magically torpedo everything afloat. Everyday. Twice a day.



Chickenboy -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 2:13:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

- So when you guys say there isn't enough of anything anywhere, are there a lot fewer supply points generated?

- Do you US players do any ship conversions to start?

- Someone mentioned guarding my replacement pools like they're gold - what do you mean? Do you mean like replacement pilots and whatnot?



Other posters have commented on the difficulty of getting supplies in theater versus the generation of said supplies on CONUS. I agree that that has changed the dynamic of supplying SWPac or SPac. Additionally, Karachi and Bombay do not produce meaningful supply now, as they did in WiTP. IIRC, Karachi spontaneously supplied 5,000 / day in WiTP. No longer. Now, the allies have to move that stuff onto the subcontinent from off map suppliers. This takes scarce shipping, and lots of it.

I have not yet had an opportunity to upgrade much of the USN. Everything afloat is being used in some capacity. No downtime-the pace for APs and AKs is much more hectic.



Chickenboy -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 2:20:14 PM)

Alright, I'm hogging the thread, but wanted to add:

Mid-ocean intercepts by SCTFs. In WiTP, this was a very rare occurence. In AE, it happens frequently. It gives surface combatants a new lease on life and provides a realistic check on CV TFs operating in restricted waters. IRL, operating a CV TF in restricted waters was very dangerous if engaged by a challenging SCTF. AE reflects this risk much more so than the Uber death stars that could roam at will through shallow and narrow straits. [8|]

Escorts. Transport or Amphibious TFs without escort are very, very, very susceptible to intercept and destruction. Add another 'very' to the above statement if the transport ships are loading or unloading. Again, more realistic than WiTP. One simply MUST provide strong escort to these TFs now if one wishes them to live.



John Lansford -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 3:06:04 PM)

RE: Logistics

I ran Aden out of both fuel and supplies from TF's picking up LCU's and returning to that base.  Now I'm having to send TF's from Abadan to Aden loaded with fuel, and supplies from Karachi.  At least those transports can pick up LCU's on the return trip, but the tankers are just lost for the return trip back to Abadan.

(Makes note to set all TF's going to Aden to "minimal refuel" to keep that from happening again)

In fact, the Indian theater is awash in supplies and fuel while the eastern half of Australia is starving for fuel.  I've got a largish convoy of tankers from Surabaya headed towards Horn Island and south to Sydney that will help, but they're still a week out.  I may have to reverse transport some fuel from Noumea and PagoPago back to Sydney (as soon as I deal with that surprise invasion in the SoPac area...)



EUBanana -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:29:24 PM)

I don't know if it's changed from WITP but it seems to me that heavy bombers slurp up supply like you wouldn't believe.

Combined with the restrictions on port sizes, at Port Moresby, for example, the convoy runs are constant shuttles - soon as one is done it reloads and sets sail again.

I'm not sure if this is due to not being able to land One Big Convoy or because supply gets consumed quicker now, but 15k supply seems to magically become 12k, and then 8k, and then 5k, disturbingly fast.



jjax -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:35:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

I don't know if it's changed from WITP but it seems to me that heavy bombers slurp up supply like you wouldn't believe.

Combined with the restrictions on port sizes, at Port Moresby, for example, the convoy runs are constant shuttles - soon as one is done it reloads and sets sail again.

I'm not sure if this is due to not being able to land One Big Convoy or because supply gets consumed quicker now, but 15k supply seems to magically become 12k, and then 8k, and then 5k, disturbingly fast.



Funny thing is that I never noticed heavy bombers sucking up supply in WITP. But there have been more than a few times when i had to rush supplies to a base to keep them flying in AE. So maybe.



Canoerebel -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:38:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109
5.  AE is even more addictive than WITP.  There is no cure.  The only support group is this forum unless you want to call divorce lawyers a support group for your wife.


This worries me! I took my vow of celibacy in April because WitP had nearly detroyed my ability to function in real life. If AE is worse (!!!!), perhaps I'd be better off sticking to my vow...



Xargun -> RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE (8/24/2009 4:41:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: skrewball

I think a big thing to remember is that the map scale is DIFFERENT!

I'm still thinking in WitP terms..."I'm 5 hexs from the Allied CV TF, I'm the perfect striking distance"

Yeah...not so much...that's what we call a mulligan [:D]


It is perfect striking distance.. Just not for you [:D]

Xargun



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