Help with brave men of Betio (Full Version)

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Mr.Ed -> Help with brave men of Betio (11/2/2000 7:08:00 AM)

I have had some major trouble with this scenario. I've taken red Beach One but I take heavy casualties trying to clear the HMG's, because if I go straight for the victory locations I quickly lose them to the guns in the nests along the southern part of the island. On Red Beach Two I lose around 40-50% of my initial landing force to those two HMG's in the nests. I tried flanking them but my Marines fell to another HMG team a little ways from the beach. I can't even get my Marines up to the sea wall because they are under such heavy fire. On top of this I lose my oh so fragile Alligators en masse usually a good third of them never even make it close to Red Beach 2. If anyone who has had success in this battle can help me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.



molset -> (11/2/2000 10:29:00 PM)

Hi Ed What you are experiencing is quite in line with history. These 13 mm HMG there did inflict massive casualties. Green beach is the key and so is the peer. In reality the red beach sector was only secured towards the end of the battle. Regards molset "Jakki er ekki frakki nema sidur se"



Mr.Ed -> (11/3/2000 2:03:00 AM)

Yes, but hoy did they eventually sieze Red Beach 2?



JNL -> (11/3/2000 1:21:00 PM)

Brave Men has always been one of my favorite scenarios. The key for me was the use of OBA and smoke. Your first turn is critical in placement of smoke or HE. One hex movement as well - each move brings down fire fom the HMGs and Anti-boat guns. Once they fire at one Amtrac - stop movng it. Pick another Amtrac and move it next. This forces the AI into multiple first time shots. If things don't go well right at the start - your in for a long drawn out crawl to the sea wall. No matter what you do, however, your going to get hurt on this one. Part of the appeal in this scenario is trying to persevere as the Marines actually did. As a side have note - there was a scenario called Red Beach2(?). Done by Eric Hammel (any one know if this is the author Eric Hammel? If it is he wrote a book for the Bantam Military Book Series called "Tarawa"-as well as a host of other books on the Pacific - not bad either). This one was done for an earlier version of SPWAW - so if your at 4.2 or better now I wouldn't recommend it. This was a tough scenario. Very satisfying to finally take that last victory hex.



Wild Bill -> (11/3/2000 10:17:00 PM)

JNL offers some good advice. By moving first one and then another LVT, you force the Japanese to change targets, thus loosing an advantage of percentage points. Smoke is important. But anyway you slice it, Red Beach is a nightmare, especially Red Beach Two. On Red Beach One, they flanked the beach defenses and were able to reach the outksirts of the airfield by the end of the first day. This is one of the harder, more painful ones, but it can be done. I still play it occasionally when I get the urge for a good beach invasion. WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Mr.Ed -> (11/4/2000 6:15:00 AM)

Huzzah I used the advice everyone gave me and finally won! The problem I had was with the smoke placements, I should have been more careful about where I put them, I should have realized that I needed to bring down the fire from the anti-boat guns, because I was losing Alligators like mad thanks for that piece of advice. Those extra boats had just enough men for me to punch through that seawall on Red Beach One and flank the defenses. It was still a bloody as hell battle on Red Beach 2 like Wild Bill said it would be. Red Beach 2 was so jammed up with Alligators, and routed infantry. Man fighting my way to through that was amazing, what a challenge! I have never felt so satisfyed in any game after winning this battle, I lost over five hundred men taking that little island. Excellent Excellent scenario. It really gave me an idea of how brave those men in Betio were, they were truly "The Brave Men of Betio".



rexmonday -> (11/9/2000 6:19:00 AM)

Anybody got any good advice on how to deal with those evil turretted fortifications? Advancing an engineer unit on their blind side is not an option, because they don't have one. After losing a lot of men in failed approaches and failed assaults I end up just sniping at them with the a Stuart and a Sherman, until I got turret hits and disabled the main gun. Then I brought in the engineers and toasted them. It worked but it wasn't the most elegant. Any other tactics apart from use of planes or artillery?



Wild Bill -> (11/9/2000 6:40:00 AM)

The only thing I can think of is a some smoke to cloak your movements. The overlapping fire is horrendous, I know. Betio was a horrible place and the scenario is not much more comfortable either. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



JNL -> (11/9/2000 2:16:00 PM)

No words of wisdom here - Artillery is the only sure fire way I know of suppressing any type of fortification. Not just those in Brave Men. Fortifications in 4.4 are a CIB (cast iron bitch). Most US AFVs have a hard time cracking anything above a MG nest. I've stopped trying. Usual method for dealing with them now is: Saturate with indirect fire (any caliber will do), drive up next to them with and APC/AFV with either an engineer or bazooka armed squad, and close assault till toasty brown. I've also found it pointless to close assault without satchel charges, flamethrowers, and/or bazookas. A standard US inf squad just don't have enough bang to crack them without the extra firepower.



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