Surviving crews - live and let live, or die? (Full Version)

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molset -> Surviving crews - live and let live, or die? (11/2/2000 9:56:00 PM)

Gentlemen! During the course of the Utha to Rhine campaign I began wondering about a thing. I get a lot of kills from finishing of bailed out crews. In fact I make a hobby out of this, since its worth its share towards increasing experience. Thats how my recon teams get their thrills and kills! The AI dont seem to be as cruel. In fact it behaves more chivalrius along the line "having survived the ordeal a burning tank inferno, who am I to play good". Just a question: Whats the practice of fellow warriors ot there? I suppose "Ol blood and Guts" would strip me of all rank for even think morals of this sort. Regards Molset "Jakki er ekki frakki nema sidur se"



Pack Rat -> (11/2/2000 10:26:00 PM)

Kill em,this is but a game. ------------------ Good hunting, Pack Rat



David F. Wall -> (11/2/2000 10:33:00 PM)

I shoot at them till they run away, and shoot at them some more if they get heroic. Otherwise, they're low priority targets, and only get shot at if the hit chance is good and there's nothing else around. DFW



Nikademus -> (11/2/2000 10:36:00 PM)

i cannot tell a lie. I often slaughter all the crews within range. But here's where the guilt really comes in....my main motivation is because it makes the battlefield look neater. Having all those little red dots all over the place (on the strategic map) can get tedious when trying to distinquish between active enemies and KO'd teams. historical wise though, it was a fairly standard practice to follow up AP rounds on knocked out tanks with an HE round to destroy the crew. George Forty's US Tanks in action transcripts quoted actual tankers specifically stating this (following up with HE to destroy the crew)



Dave_R -> (11/2/2000 11:39:00 PM)

I tend to ignore crews, unless they get in the way. The exception to this is crews that abandon a damaged tank, if they get their act together they will often remount, so those poor shmucks become a high priority target!



halstein -> (11/2/2000 11:52:00 PM)

I let it depend on circumstance. Are there more dangerous targets near by, I rather fire at them. I also vary it to theatre of operations. If I play UK vs DAK, I often let the crews go. If it is USSR vs Germany, I usually kill the Facist Swines/Bolsjevik Subhumans on general principle. ------------------ Halstein



The MSG -> (11/3/2000 12:57:00 AM)

I can only tell you what Swedish tankers are taught to do (in real life)... Machinegun Žem. After all, a trained crew is harder to replace than a tank. Usually a knocked out tank only need to be hosed down, get some internal stuff replaced and the engine cleared, and then throw in a crew and roll of towards battle. ------------------ The MSG [This message has been edited by The MSG (edited November 02, 2000).]



Tankhead -> (11/3/2000 1:31:00 AM)

Hi All! I can't lie so I kill everything in sight when it comes to the enemy. I've seen crew hiding in building and doing assault on anything that comes around. In a Campaign more so it really hurt the enemy, if you don't kill the crew he will come back in the next battle with a new tank and maybe put an end to your favorite hero with 30 kills, then you will cry and say I should of finish him off in the previous battle. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://smilecwm.tripod.com/paladin/jesse6.gif[/img] Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://tankhead.home.icq.com



Hauptmann6 -> (11/3/2000 1:44:00 AM)

My artillery tends to get the crews if not my recon anvil gets them as they retreat!!! Or if I have nothing better to shoot at and ammo to do it with, I use them for ISU 152 target practice... hehe



Don -> (11/3/2000 1:48:00 AM)

You are right, Tankhead, you've got to kill them all. For one thing, you then get 2 kills for every tank (tank + crew), which can really up your total. Secondly, I've had those crews really get in my way when I'm going for that far V-hex. Here is a demontration of how I do it: [img]http://smilecwm.tripod.com/paladin/uzi.gif[/img] Don



mogami -> (11/3/2000 2:51:00 AM)

You must close their eyes in online games or other player knows where to place arty. also they report your movements. Some of those guys are pretty good shots with those pistols too. Given a choice between a crew or a formed squad of course I would shoot sqd. ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!



Don Doom -> (11/3/2000 2:53:00 AM)

I can not tell a lie. I use them as grease for my tank treads, when I can other wise just blow them up. [img]http://smilecwm.tripod.com/paladin/jesse1.gif[/img] Don



Mr.Ed -> (11/3/2000 5:55:00 AM)

Bah kill em' all, there are no war crimes tribunals in SPWAW



Anzac Rambo -> (11/3/2000 11:25:00 AM)

They have of course declined to honorably surrender and deserve what ever comes their way.



Fredde -> (11/3/2000 2:39:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by The MSG: I can only tell you what Swedish tankers are taught to do (in real life)... Machinegun Žem. After all, a trained crew is harder to replace than a tank. Usually a knocked out tank only need to be hosed down, get some internal stuff replaced and the engine cleared, and then throw in a crew and roll of towards battle.
Agreed, the loss of a trained elite crew must be much more painful and costful then the enemy then the loss of the hardware they ride. Building a new tank in the factory is much quicker (even cheaper?) than training new men. Cynical, yes [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]



Skandranon -> (11/3/2000 11:42:00 PM)

Heh, I say gun them down... it is just a game. And there's even arguments for doing it IRL (as the gentleman from Sweden pointed out), however ignoble that might be. Personally, I just destroy them since they can rally and assault an oblivious, expensive vehicle, and equally important - they seem to count toward the overall casualties/morale of the opposing side. More units destroyed, more chance the whole force will collapse and retreat.



Viriato -> (11/5/2000 9:09:00 AM)

Hello all , Kill'EM ALL , they were riding their big tanks or their At guns shooting our nice top units and infantry right ? so now that they lost their toy they want to say " ok you got me , take me home and feed me " . No way . Shaka Zulu had one line I like " Only a dead enemy will not rise and attack you again "...... This is were we got to play God , we don't have to be nice or polite or honorable , when you have some squads hiding in a ville , do you think of the poor people who live there and are hidding terrified in the cornors of the houses ? no you dont , you hit the houses with everything you have , right ?........... Tip - Use your AA units to wipe out the crews , they'll get experience and shoot down more planes besides... relax , it's just a game ;O)



Tortfeasor -> (11/5/2000 2:38:00 PM)

First i shoot the objekt and then i Flame it then i strip the crew and i let them go. That mens i dip them in tar and hunt them with flares. If it`s winter then it dos not matter if they get away in the deap deep cold finnish forest. It`s the Unknown soldiers way.



silentsurfer -> (11/5/2000 7:35:00 PM)

Definately kill 'em, kill 'em all. I often use my low kill/experience troops for this. They gain valuable points for later in the campaign with minimal risk to the unit. Another reason is, as mentioned before, neatness. The crew can also cause suppression in your troops that are trying to advance on a hex and get stopped because some hero is shooting at you...boy do I make 'em pay for that one. I think we should have a "slow death" icon..you know, shoot 'em in the knees, arms, thigh, earlob, than deliver the final blow. That'll learn 'em [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Surfer [This message has been edited by silentsurfer (edited November 05, 2000).]



Warrior -> (11/6/2000 1:23:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by molset: Gentlemen! During the course of the Utha to Rhine campaign I began wondering about a thing. I get a lot of kills from finishing of bailed out crews. In fact I make a hobby out of this, since its worth its share towards increasing experience. Thats how my recon teams get their thrills and kills! The AI dont seem to be as cruel. In fact it behaves more chivalrius along the line "having survived the ordeal a burning tank inferno, who am I to play good". Just a question: Whats the practice of fellow warriors ot there? I suppose "Ol blood and Guts" would strip me of all rank for even think morals of this sort. Regards Molset "Jakki er ekki frakki nema sidur se"
Like insects, if they don't bother me, I'll ignore them. But if they shoot or impede my advance - adios.



MECH ENGINEER -> (11/6/2000 5:13:00 AM)

KILL THEM ALL, LET DEFRAG SORT THEM OUT. I don't know how many times I've been driving to a victory hex, some crew decides to get froggy and squeezes off a few rounds. Of course, the the squad next to the victory hex routs. Hose' em



troopie -> (11/6/2000 7:57:00 AM)

I let 'em go if, they are running from a destroyed gun or vehicle, don't fight and aren't in my way. If they have abandoned a vehicle or a gun and are still with it, I hose them down with rifle fire and make 'em run. If they fight, I cut them down. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete



Weasel -> (11/6/2000 3:00:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by molset: The AI dont seem to be as cruel. In fact it behaves more chivalrius along the line "having survived the ordeal a burning tank inferno, who am I to play good".
AI not cruel, my ass :-) In Northern Africa scenarios Germans kill every poor crewman in sight. Usually these horrified crewmen (british) stay near their wrecked tanks and do not run away, but when you try to move the survivors into a better shelter, German tanks and their machinegunners feel no mercy. Of course desert is quite open place and these crewmen are in the open, but still...



Viriato -> (11/6/2000 3:33:00 PM)

hello all , hey Weasel , it's like the men said ... " you can run but you can't hide " ------------------



Bill -> (11/7/2000 2:18:00 PM)

I think that bailed out crews are too prepared to fight. There are only three or four of them with pistols and perhaps an SMG, not trained to fight on foot, and they open up on a 12 man infantry squad. From my readings they usually hide in a ditch until they can withdraw. I end up shooting them because otherwise they spoil the nil suppression bonus by opening up on a squad. Any thoughts? Bill



Charles22 -> (11/7/2000 7:36:00 PM)

Killing enemy crews? For me, generally I don't waste fire on them unless I'm playing defensive and there's no more targets for the tank. I say tank, because probably 95% of my fire, if I'm playing successfully, comes from tanks/TDs. My main priority is to dismantle the worst of enemy anti-tank fire so that crews will normally be only of a very secondary nature. That situation changes slightly if the crew has only 'abandoned' the tank, which might actually cause me in certain instances to actually give it more fire than it deserves, simply because I hate tha idea of having to shoot at the tank again should I fail to rout the crew and it be remanned. Sometimes, though, like when I destroy a tank close to my infantry, and then use that infantry to fire on a more regular unit further back, I'm so irked by the crew firing and possibly killing one of those infantry, my command might somewhat go into a berserk mode and then I'm all out to destroy them (everyone after me: "kill, crush, destroy"). One positive other than the obvious of gaining more experience from killing them that helps enormously, is that doing so reduces the clutter on the field, and it certainly helps to eliminate them while they're in place, stationary, as opposed to bumping into them every other hex should a general mopping up take place later.



Lazarus -> (11/8/2000 3:31:00 AM)

well They can choose: they You can surrender now or They can die. (one time one crew destroyed one trunk... I don't want to repeat the experience). They can conquer a victory point, can't they? so why they should survive... in my case run is not an option available for them. ------------------ "The conqueror is always a lover of peace; he would prefer to take over our country unopposed." CLAUSEWITZ



Peregrine Falcon -> (11/8/2000 4:29:00 AM)

True. Crews are far too eager to engage enemy after they have abandoned their tank or other piece of equipment. I think it was good thing to give them more firepower than couple lousy pistols (and maybe few grenades), but now they all want to play heroes and they fire their guns against any target they find - Even infantry AND concrete bunkers [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/mad.gif[/img] Damn stupid - And very unrealistic... They should hide - not fight.
quote:

Originally posted by Bill: I think that bailed out crews are too prepared to fight. There are only three or four of them with pistols and perhaps an SMG, not trained to fight on foot, and they open up on a 12 man infantry squad. From my readings they usually hide in a ditch until they can withdraw. I end up shooting them because otherwise they spoil the nil suppression bonus by opening up on a squad. Any thoughts? Bill



Drex -> (11/8/2000 9:12:00 AM)

Believe it or not I've lost vehicles because of those damn crews. Kill them! Kill them all!



Frontenac -> (11/8/2000 6:19:00 PM)

I like to edge the battlefield and send a few unit toward the enemy retreat flag and massacre whatever i can shoot at. I dont want those crews to come back so i either kill or make prisoners. ( pardon my poor english )



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