PT Boats are... not that awesome.

PT Boats are... not that awesome. (Full Version)

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moose1999 -> PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 7:41:20 AM)
I've had 7 major PT boat attacks since the patch and in all of them the PT boat TFs evaded combat. The TFs were all set on direct route, absolute threat tolerance level, 1 reaction and with very good, very aggressive commanders. All attacks were against warships, all in ocean hexes (adjacent to coast hexes) and all in reasonable weather (no storms). Only 2 of them were daytime attacks. So I guess the PT boats don't rule the waves post-patch... I don't mind the changes, the PTs were overpowered pre-patch, but one time I caught two CVs and 3 destroyers near Darwin with a force of 13 PT boats in the middle of a calm night. I sure would have liked to see them at least take a swing at the underescorted carriers...! But they instantly evaded combat and a golden opportunity was missed. Another time I caught two BBs, 1 CA and 2 destroyers off Pearl (what on earth were they doing there...! Well, for one thing, sinking an Air-transport TF of mine with 4 Catalina squadrons [:@] !). Night-time, 80% moonlight. Again not as much as a token effort from the PTs - they ran away immediately. Anybody else seen similar drastic changes with PT boats? Or am I just on a bad roll...

Kull -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 7:51:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: briny_norman All attacks were against warships, all in ocean hexes (adjacent to coast hexes) and all in reasonable weather (no storms). See if you get similar results taking on Transport TFs in shallow/coastal hexes.

moose1999 -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 7:58:22 AM)
Yeah, I would expect to have better results against soft targets. But I haven't had one of these yet, unfortunately. But it seems like attacks on warship-heavy TFs are pretty much gone post-patch.

John Lansford -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 9:23:57 AM)
Against fast warships PT boats will have trouble getting into position to attack. Vs transports, though, they are still very effective. I've had similar results as you have when encountering combat TF's, but if you send them after unloading transports or those in a harbor you'll get better results. BTW, why were you shipping PBY's anywhere? They can fly to just about any base on the map by themselves!

tigercub -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 9:30:06 AM)
Good so its fixed! Tiger!

medicff -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 10:33:10 AM)
PT boats are less of impact now. Still can use them but usually wont encounter warships or transports with heavy escort now even at night. I have had some success in encounters vs light warships/escorts of DD or smaller with some sinkings, not near as many though. I also lose more PT's than before to combat during the encounter.

moose1999 -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 10:36:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford BTW, why were you shipping PBY's anywhere? They can fly to just about any base on the map by themselves! They were from Kodiak. I couldn't see any other way to get them to the South Pacific where they were sorely needed. Just wanted to get them to Pearl and then let them island-jump from there. But then these two idiot BBs show up and ruin everything. This is the last time I put all my eggs in one TF, though. [:)]

Q-Ball -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 2:35:35 PM)
Excellent! I consider this fixed then. PT boats IRL didn't do much against IJN warships. Against transports, barges, etc, though they were effective, and if that's the same in AE, kudos

John Lansford -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 2:46:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: briny_norman quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford BTW, why were you shipping PBY's anywhere? They can fly to just about any base on the map by themselves! They were from Kodiak. I couldn't see any other way to get them to the South Pacific where they were sorely needed. Just wanted to get them to Pearl and then let them island-jump from there. But then these two idiot BBs show up and ruin everything. This is the last time I put all my eggs in one TF, though. [:)] Hmmm, Kodiak to Anchorage to Seattle to SF to Pearl is still faster than loading them in a ship and sending it to Pearl. I rarely, if ever, put my PBY's on a ship; their range is just too great to need that.

crsutton -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 2:54:18 PM)
Seems fine to me...

SuluSea -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 3:38:13 PM)
PTs seem just about right right now. Good to see this was patched up. I can't remember the book because I sold it but I read in the Solomons some skippers would use ash cans and roll them off the back just incase a DD got on their heels. I know it doesn't pertain to this game but just thought I'd share a note on just how resourceful these guys were.

FOW -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 7:51:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: briny_norman They were from Kodiak. I couldn't see any other way to get them to the South Pacific where they were sorely needed. Just wanted to get them to Pearl and then let them island-jump from there. But then these two idiot BBs show up and ruin everything. This is the last time I put all my eggs in one TF, though. [:)] There is away. You can now 'disband' PT Boats back to the pool. Several days (more likely a week) later they appear in the pool so you can recreate them elsewhere. Rather than sail my PH ones to SOPAC I returned them to the pool and then later recreated them at PagoPago (had to have shipped sufficient supplies there first of course).

medicff -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 7:57:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FOW quote: ORIGINAL: briny_norman They were from Kodiak. I couldn't see any other way to get them to the South Pacific where they were sorely needed. Just wanted to get them to Pearl and then let them island-jump from there. But then these two idiot BBs show up and ruin everything. This is the last time I put all my eggs in one TF, though. [:)] There is away. You can now 'disband' PT Boats back to the pool. Several days (more likely a week) later they appear in the pool so you can recreate them elsewhere. Rather than sail my PH ones to SOPAC I returned them to the pool and then later recreated them at PagoPago (had to have shipped sufficient supplies there first of course). Ok I have look at screen to check for disband but never can find it. What are the requirements to disband back into pool? thanks

Nikademus -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 8:03:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuluSea PTs seem just about right right now. Good to see this was patched up. I can't remember the book because I sold it but I read in the Solomons some skippers would use ash cans and roll them off the back just incase a DD got on their heels. I know it doesn't pertain to this game but just thought I'd share a note on just how resourceful these guys were. [:)]

FOW -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 8:33:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: medicff Ok I have look at screen to check for disband but never can find it. What are the requirements to disband back into pool? thanks With PT Boats disbanded in port, select a PT from the list of active ships. On right side of ship display 2/3rds way down, between victory value and upgrade option is button to 'Return to pool' [image]local://upfiles/30433/B9F3E87ACF9B44409F69EF6A9FD31840.jpg[/image]

Fallschirmjager -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 8:39:43 PM)
Probably the biggest nerf is the .50 cal M2 They are worthless now. They penetrate but do next to no damage and do not start fires at all. Even if your PT force catches a thin skinned vessel they hardly damage it since their MGs do nothing.

FOW -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 8:42:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager Probably the biggest nerf is the .50 cal M2 They are worthless now. They penetrate but do next to no damage and do not start fires at all. Even if your PT force catches a thin skinned vessel they hardly damage it since their MGs do nothing. You need to wait until they upgrade to include 20mm and 40mm guns. I have noticed that my PTs even flee from porrly escorted AKs in base hexes at night [:(]

Fallschirmjager -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 8:47:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FOW quote: ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager Probably the biggest nerf is the .50 cal M2 They are worthless now. They penetrate but do next to no damage and do not start fires at all. Even if your PT force catches a thin skinned vessel they hardly damage it since their MGs do nothing. You need to wait until they upgrade to include 20mm and 40mm guns. I have noticed that my PTs even flee from porrly escorted AKs in base hexes at night [:(] A twin .50 mount would tear up the superstucture of a DD or transport pretty good if the distance was close and it could hit with long sustained bursts. The .50 cal is an extremly powerful bullet and the tracer ammunition would also probably start some fires. I fear that the gun was probably nerfed a little too much in the patch.

88l71 -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 8:56:08 PM)
Yeah, PLEASE don't make the B-25 gun-ship version useless now...

Q-Ball -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 9:55:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager A twin .50 mount would tear up the superstucture of a DD or transport pretty good if the distance was close and it could hit with long sustained bursts. The .50 cal is an extremly powerful bullet and the tracer ammunition would also probably start some fires. I fear that the gun was probably nerfed a little too much in the patch. Maybe, but that's pretty dangerous pulling into .50 cal range of a DD, isn't it? I don't recall PT's IRL wrecking havoc with .50cals. PT's should be able to bust barges still though, since that's one thing they were very good at IRL.

Dili -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 10:08:18 PM)
The problem with a 0.5 and a DD is that you need to be too close and will not make much damage. Penetrating doesn't mean big damage since 0.5 bullets doesn't explode. quote: I can't remember the book because I sold it but I read in the Solomons some skippers would use ash cans and roll them off the back just incase a DD got on their heels. I know it doesn't pertain to this game but just thought I'd share a note on just how resourceful these guys were. All italian PT's had depth charges to do that since WW1.

Fallschirmjager -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/3/2009 10:13:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dili The problem with a 0.5 and a DD is that you need to be too close and will not make much damage. Penetrating doesn't mean big damage since 0.5 bullets doesn't explode. quote: I can't remember the book because I sold it but I read in the Solomons some skippers would use ash cans and roll them off the back just incase a DD got on their heels. I know it doesn't pertain to this game but just thought I'd share a note on just how resourceful these guys were. All italian PT's had depth charges to do that since WW1. But fires and crew casulties would be horrific. And I think you guys are overstating a ships ability to hit a 77 foot target moving at 35+ knots with a 4.7" or 5" shell. I am not saying PTs should be used against DD's. But if the game happens to put them up against one another at close range the DD should take some significant damage from a PT with high crew EXP. Dual .50 mounts would tear the superstructure of a DD to shreds. Against a slow moving transport the PT could make slashing attacks or simply circle it's prey and probably mow everyone topside down in a hail of .50 cal bullets.

Panther Bait -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/4/2009 9:37:18 PM)
I am thinking that concentrating fire on a DD from a .50 cal from 500-700 yards (about 1/3 of a mile) when shooting from a PT boat moving at 35+ knots in a even light chop is probably not that easy. Add in the other guys shooting back at you, and it probably gets worse. Make it nighttime, and it probably gets impossible.

Dobey455 -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/6/2009 6:08:09 PM)
Yeah but Destroyers have HMG's too. (or a light AA equivalent in the 0.5 cal - 20mm range) and probably far more of them than a PT boat.

Jones944 -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/6/2009 6:24:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: medicff quote: ORIGINAL: FOW quote: ORIGINAL: briny_norman They were from Kodiak. I couldn't see any other way to get them to the South Pacific where they were sorely needed. Just wanted to get them to Pearl and then let them island-jump from there. But then these two idiot BBs show up and ruin everything. This is the last time I put all my eggs in one TF, though. [:)] There is away. You can now 'disband' PT Boats back to the pool. Several days (more likely a week) later they appear in the pool so you can recreate them elsewhere. Rather than sail my PH ones to SOPAC I returned them to the pool and then later recreated them at PagoPago (had to have shipped sufficient supplies there first of course). Ok I have look at screen to check for disband but never can find it. What are the requirements to disband back into pool? thanks Only PT boats can disband back to the pool. Not the Catalina squadrons that were being transported as mentioned in the original post.

crsutton -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/7/2009 2:51:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager quote: ORIGINAL: FOW quote: ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager Probably the biggest nerf is the .50 cal M2 They are worthless now. They penetrate but do next to no damage and do not start fires at all. Even if your PT force catches a thin skinned vessel they hardly damage it since their MGs do nothing. You need to wait until they upgrade to include 20mm and 40mm guns. I have noticed that my PTs even flee from porrly escorted AKs in base hexes at night [:(] A twin .50 mount would tear up the superstucture of a DD or transport pretty good if the distance was close and it could hit with long sustained bursts. The .50 cal is an extremly powerful bullet and the tracer ammunition would also probably start some fires. I fear that the gun was probably nerfed a little too much in the patch. Not at high speeds or in any kind of seas. All mounts on PTs were manually sighted. Have you ever been in a 50 foot craft going 30 knots and making hard manuevers. (Well, me neither to be honest [;)]) No way you can hold a target for any length of time. Plus a sustained burst at close range at a DD was going to most likely be rewarded by sustained burts from multiple light and heavy automatic weapons. Lets see, plywood vs half inch steel.....I think we have a winner [:D] 50 cal could shoot up a merchant superstructure a bit but the steel is still there and fairly thick. Might set a fire or two but there is really very little to burn on the upper deck of a merchant ship. Against motor launches and barges, that is another story.

Dili -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/7/2009 4:30:38 PM)
quote: I am not saying PTs should be used against DD's. But if the game happens to put them up against one another at close range the DD should take some significant damage from a PT with high crew EXP. Germans sunk 11 destroyers with PT's, one of them was American in Mediterranean. The British prefered lighter guns like 6pdr as a gun to face PT's.

RCNVR -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/8/2009 1:48:23 AM)
Remember that PT boats, MTBs and E boats (or S boats) relied primarily on torpedoes against larger surface vessels. They would usually turn and run after firing the torpedoes. MGBs were a different story but they were mainly to fight smaller ships (trawlers, schooners, barges & coastal vessels) and enemy torpedo boats. The later MGBs were fairly well gunned 2 57mm (6lb) 2 20mm cannon, 4 50cal and 4 303.

eMonticello -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/8/2009 5:45:40 AM)
After the Marine SBD's sunk the supporting Light Cruisers earlier in the day, LCDR Gilbert (A careful and promising officer[Leadership 71; Inspiration 44; Naval 78) and his intrepid PT Boat Squadron engaged the remnants of the enemy transport fleet during the night... --------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 01, 42 Morning Air attack on TF, near Tassafaronga at 113,137 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Allied aircraft F4F-4 Wildcat x 16 SBD-3 Dauntless x 30 No Allied losses Japanese Ships CL Kashima, Bomb hits 1, on fire CL Kashii, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires xAK Yodogawa Maru xAK Toa Maru PC Ch 11, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk ---------------------------------------------------------- 2nd Morning Air attack on TF, near Tassafaronga at 113,137 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Allied aircraft F4F-4 Wildcat x 16 SBD-3 Dauntless x 30 No Allied losses Japanese Ships CL Kashima, Bomb hits 1, on fire CL Kashii, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires xAK Yodogawa Maru xAK Toa Maru PC Ch 11, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Final Attack: Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Tassafaronga at 113,137 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Allied aircraft F4F-4 Wildcat x 16 SBD-3 Dauntless x 30 Allied aircraft losses SBD-3 Dauntless: 3 damaged Japanese Ships CL Kashima, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage CL Kashii, Bomb hits 6, and is sunk xAK Yodogawa Maru PC Ch 10 DD Hatsukaze -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 02, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Tassafaronga at 113,137, Range 1,000 Yards Japanese Ships PC Ch 16, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk xAK Soyo Maru, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk Allied Ships PT-60 PT-61 PT-64 PT-66 PT-109 PT-114 Japanese ground losses: 372 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 49 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching! Japanese TF suspends loading operations and begins to get underway Reduced sighting due to 25% moonlight Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 25% moonlight: 1,000 yards Range closes to 7,000 yards... Range closes to 2,000 yards... Range closes to 1,000 yards... PT-114 engages PC Ch 16 at 1,000 yards PT-114 engages xAK Soyo Maru at 1,000 yards Range increases to 2,000 yards PT-114 engages PC Ch 16 at 2,000 yards PC Ch 16 sunk by PT-66 at 2,000 yards Range increases to 3,000 yards PT-114 engages xAK Soyo Maru at 3,000 yards Range closes to 2,000 yards xAK Soyo Maru sunk by PT-114 at 2,000 yards Combat ends with last Japanese ship sunk... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2nd Attack: Night Time Surface Combat, near Tassafaronga at 113,137, Range 1,000 Yards Japanese Ships PC Ch 18, Shell hits 17, heavy fires, heavy damage xAK Yamahagi Maru, Shell hits 5 Allied Ships PT-60 PT-61 PT-64 PT-66 PT-109 PT-114 Japanese ground losses: 9 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching! Japanese TF suspends loading operations and begins to get underway Reduced sighting due to 25% moonlight Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 25% moonlight: 1,000 yards Range closes to 8,000 yards... Range closes to 4,000 yards... Range closes to 1,000 yards... PT-114 engages PC Ch 18 at 1,000 yards PT-114 engages xAK Yamahagi Maru at 1,000 yards PC Ch 18 engages PT-66 at 1,000 yards PC Ch 18 engages PT-64 at 1,000 yards Range increases to 2,000 yards PT-114 engages xAK Yamahagi Maru at 2,000 yards PT-64 engages PC Ch 18 at 2,000 yards Range increases to 3,000 yards PC Ch 18 engages PT-64 at 3,000 yards Range closes to 2,000 yards PT-114 engages PC Ch 18 at 2,000 yards PT-61 engages PC Ch 18 at 2,000 yards Range increases to 3,000 yards PC Ch 18 engages PT-66 at 3,000 yards Task forces break off...

Swayin -> RE: PT Boats are... not that awesome. (9/8/2009 10:18:57 PM)
My PI PTs chewed through a ton of AKs before ventually being ground down by escorts.

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