Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (Full Version)

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rogueusmc -> Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/6/2009 8:12:18 PM)

Today in 1915 : First tank produced

On this day in 1915, a prototype tank nicknamed Little Willie rolls off the assembly line in England. Little Willie was far from an overnight success. It weighed 14 tons, got stuck in trenches and crawled over rough terrain at only two miles per hour. However, improvements were made to the original prototype and tanks eventually transformed military battlefields.

The British developed the tank in response to the trench warfare of World War I. In 1914, a British army colonel named Ernest Swinton and William Hankey, secretary of the Committee for Imperial Defence, championed the idea of an armored vehicle with conveyor-belt-like tracks over its wheels that could break through enemy lines and traverse difficult territory. The men appealed to British navy minister Winston Churchill, who believed in the concept of a "land boat" and organized a Landships Committee to begin developing a prototype. To keep the project secret from enemies, production workers were reportedly told the vehicles they were building would be used to carry water on the battlefield (alternate theories suggest the shells of the new vehicles resembled water tanks). Either way, the new vehicles were shipped in crates labeled "tank" and the name stuck.

The first tank prototype, Little Willie, was unveiled in September 1915. Following its underwhelming performance--it was slow, became overheated and couldn’t cross trenches--a second prototype, known as "Big Willie," was produced. By 1916, this armored vehicle was deemed ready for battle and made its debut at the First Battle of the Somme near Courcelette, France, on September 15 of that year. Known as the Mark I, this first batch of tanks was hot, noisy and unwieldy and suffered mechanical malfunctions on the battlefield; nevertheless, people realized the tank's potential. Further design improvements were made and at the Battle of Cambrai in November 1917, 400 Mark IV’s proved much more successful than the Mark I, capturing 8,000 enemy troops and 100 guns.

Tanks rapidly became an important military weapon. During World War II, they played a prominent role across numerous battlefields. More recently, tanks have been essential for desert combat during the conflicts in the Persian Gulf.




Panjack -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/6/2009 8:56:52 PM)

We turn to the Oxford English Dictionary and find a series of notable usages of the word "tank", starting with perhaps the first time (?) the word appeared in print:

1916 Times 18 Sept. 9/6 ‘Tanks’ is what these new machines are generally called, and the name has the evident official advantage of being quite undescriptive.

The next usage example suggests something more:

1917 A. MACHEN Terror i. 19 Last summer there were very few people outside high official circles who knew anything about the ‘Tanks’, of which we have all been talking lately.

But the OED also provides the key in this:

1970 Sunday Times (Colour Suppl.) 16 Aug. 13/4 For security purposes the cumbersome metal machines needed a code-name: ‘water carriers’ was rejected in favour of ‘tanks’.

So "tank" appeared to be an intentionally undescriptive code name that just stuck after the machine was revealed to the public.




Lesbaker -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/6/2009 9:16:14 PM)

As Rogue hinted in his original post; the official name for 'Tanks' used by the war office in 1915 was HMLS or His Majesty's Land Ship.




pat.casey -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/6/2009 9:23:56 PM)

I believe that during the development phase, British intelligence used a cover story that the large metal boxes folks saw moving about the countryside were motorized water tanks for the Mesopotamian campaign. Once they hit the field, the name more or less stuck.




V22 Osprey -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/6/2009 10:37:27 PM)

That's what I've always wondered....why "tanks"?Though I don't know what else I would call them....maybe a MAAV(Main Armored Assault Vehicle).Heck I don't know.




Torplexed -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/6/2009 10:46:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

That's what I've always wondered....why "tanks"?Though I don't know what else I would call them....maybe a MAAV(Main Armored Assault Vehicle).Heck I don't know.


AFV. Armored fighting vehicle. Basically the same thing as the German 'panzerkampfwagen.'




V22 Osprey -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/6/2009 11:19:23 PM)

Ahhh, I forgot about AFV.I can't believe I forgot that one.[:'(]

man....




vlcz -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/6/2009 11:26:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pat.casey

I believe that during the development phase, British intelligence used a cover story that the large metal boxes folks saw moving about the countryside were motorized water tanks for the Mesopotamian campaign. Once they hit the field, the name more or less stuck.


Thisd is the explanation I allways have read, a codename..acording to some sources the descriptor "tank" is reputed to have evolved from the construction of the early batches by North British Locomotive Company in Glasgow. The order was coded as "special tanks", and ironically much of the work was undertaken in the NBLC Tank shops and the name stuck.




Marc -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/7/2009 12:16:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

That's what I've always wondered....why "tanks"?Though I don't know what else I would call them....maybe a MAAV(Main Armored Assault Vehicle).Heck I don't know.


Ah that's easy. Panzer [:D]




fbs -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/7/2009 2:42:36 PM)

Nonsense ([:D][:D]). It's all because the French couldn't understand Sir John French. When he showed the French his Little Willie in a private demonstration in 1915, the French were enthusiastic: "Mon General! C'est magnifique! You haf a huge Littley Uillie!", and they gave John French a medal (with the traditional kisses on the cheek). John French then said "Duude, you have my Thanks, Sir!".

So the French thought that Little Willie was a Thank, and the name stuck (and that was also the beginning of a beautiful friendship between John French and the French).

Cheers [:D]
fbs




Fokko -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/7/2009 5:03:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


Nonsense ([:D][:D]). It's all because the French couldn't understand Sir John French. When he showed the French his Little Willie in a private demonstration in 1915, the French were enthusiastic: "Mon General! C'est magnifique! This izz a huge Littley Uillie!", and they gave John French a medal (with the traditional kisses on the cheek). John French then said "Duude, you have my Thanks, Sir!".

So the French thought that Little Vehicle was a Thank, and the name stuck (and that was also the beginning of a beautiful friendship between John French and the French).

Cheers [:D]
fbs


ROFLOL

Coffee coming out of my noose and ears and wasted a keyboard again.[:D]




Blackhorse -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/7/2009 5:20:27 PM)


A slight variation on Rogue's history:

According to one of Churchill's biographers, the fighting armored tractor advocates approached Churchill after the British Army rejected the concept.

The design team originally nicknamed them "W.C.'s" in honor of Winston Churchill, and came up with "Water Carrier" as the code name. However, in British English "W.C." is the marking on a "Water Closet" -- what Americans call a bathroom or outhouse.

Upon reflection, the designers thought it would be unfortunate for their new armored toy to be called a "W.C", so changed the code name to "Water Tank."





mariandavid -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/7/2009 8:14:27 PM)

In Harry Turtledove's alternative history of the USA/Confederate States he calls them 'barrels' - another deception title!




stuman -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/7/2009 8:19:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mariandavid

In Harry Turtledove's alternative history of the USA/Confederate States he calls them 'barrels' - another deception title!


I red those a looong time ago. Were fun [:)]




Hokum -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/7/2009 11:29:05 PM)

quote:

he design team originally nicknamed them "W.C.'s" in honor of Winston Churchill, and came up with "Water Carrier" as the code name. However, in British English "W.C." is the marking on a "Water Closet" -- what Americans call a bathroom or outhouse.


This topic reminds me of something...

Ok, I remember reading in a japanese book the fact that sensha (japanese for tank) was a literal translation of "War cart", but, well, I have never seen war cart anywhere so I kind of assumed the japanese author was a bit too much creative and/or looked at french or italian.

So, back to the topic, is there any indication anywhere the british ever used WC as in "War Cart" in the origins?




Iridium -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/8/2009 2:13:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mariandavid

In Harry Turtledove's alternative history of the USA/Confederate States he calls them 'barrels' - another deception title!


So wait, which side did the Nazis take during the US Civil War? [:D]




rogueusmc -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/8/2009 2:16:42 AM)

With Harry Turtledove, you never know...




gladiatt -> RE: Whay are 'tanks' called 'tanks? (9/8/2009 9:46:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


Nonsense ([:D][:D]). It's all because the French couldn't understand Sir John French. When he showed the French his Little Willie in a private demonstration in 1915, the French were enthusiastic: "Mon General! C'est magnifique! This izz a huge Littley Uillie!", and they gave John French a medal (with the traditional kisses on the cheek). John French then said "Duude, you have my Thanks, Sir!".

So the French thought that Little Vehicle was a Thank, and the name stuck (and that was also the beginning of a beautiful friendship between John French and the French).

Cheers [:D]
fbs



For the kiss on the cheek, it's maybe because without moustaches we french thought that General French was a girl....you know, the "british look" [:D].
About the "Tank" word: we have a french word for it, wich is NOT elusive: char d'assaut. Something that could be translatted as....hmmm....panzerkampfwagen [;)].
Last: what is the problem with the medal ? It allow us to pretend to thanks someone without giving money [:D] (but i'm pretty sure that after the meeting, we would bring our invities to a meal with much wine [:)] )




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