Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (Full Version)

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DaveP -> Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 3:56:44 AM)

Anyone have a feeling whether Mogami's pilot training guide from stock is still viable?

Thanks,
Dave



GB68 -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 4:18:40 AM)

My early indications are that it is almost certainly a viable strategy. But I'm no expert.

I have not quite figured out yet, the pro's and con's of the Traning Command. Or even if it is useful at all? But on-map training seems to be effective to some degree.

P.S.- what happened to Mogami? His guide in WitP was exceptional.



Pascal_slith -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 7:24:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GB68

My early indications are that it is almost certainly a viable strategy. But I'm no expert.

I have not quite figured out yet, the pro's and con's of the Traning Command. Or even if it is useful at all? But on-map training seems to be effective to some degree.

P.S.- what happened to Mogami? His guide in WitP was exceptional.


Where would I find Mogami's guide? In the WitP forum?

And yes, Where is Mogami? [&o][&o][&o]



vlcz -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 8:51:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

Where would I find Mogami's guide? In the WitP forum?



extracted from a doc...



Mike Solli -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 1:23:30 PM)

I don't think Mogami's Method will work in AE.  The difference is that in WitP, you could train fighters up by bombing ground targets.  No longer possible in AE.  You need to either train A2A or fight inferior planes/pilots (increasingly difficult as time moves forward) to increase your A2A experience level.



vlcz -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 1:41:14 PM)

Donīt you think that general training (including air defense) of "training groups" in a proper base (well suplied, Air HQ..) could be useful? I must agree it will not make the elite it used but...



Mynok -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 2:03:36 PM)


Spend your training on skills. You'll need at least two for fighters: Air and Defense. That's about two months of on-map training to get decent.

I have no clue what general training is for yet.



Mike Solli -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 3:07:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vlcz

Donīt you think that general training (including air defense) of "training groups" in a proper base (well suplied, Air HQ..) could be useful? I must agree it will not make the elite it used but...



Yup, I think training is essential. I have to agree with Mynok though that specificed training is the way to go. But, I have read that the only way to increase defense is by generalized training.



Q-Ball -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 6:59:08 PM)

On pilot training, it's true that bombing bases will not yield fighter pilot results. Only half the equation though.

I think you can still move experienced pilots from one unit to another of the same plane type. Only done it a couple times not wholesale, but pretty sure you still can. This is the method of "breaking" all the planes, flying off a parent fragment, disbanding all the pilots and planes in the remaining fragment to the unit you want to get pilots to, then restocking the reduced parent unit with new pilots and planes for training. If this still works, then you can use all those units nailed down in the Home Islands as training units; once trained, siphon them off to front-line units, then refill the unit with pilots from the pool.

It will still be a bad idea to take pilots straight out of the trained pool and into front-line units. It will be inefficient to pull a unit with 10 or 12 good pilots still out of the line for 2 months while the new pilots in the unit are training.



pompack -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 7:57:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Spend your training on skills. You'll need at least two for fighters: Air and Defense. That's about two months of on-map training to get decent.

I have no clue what general training is for yet.



O mighty Martian! [&o]

Tell me what buttons I push to train for "Defense" . I find it easy to train (low-level) pilots up in "Air" but I have never seen an increase in "defense"



Mike Solli -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 9:25:41 PM)

Pompack, the only way you can increase your defense skill is to do general training.

Edit: ....or you can take your chances in combat....



Q-Ball -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 9:27:34 PM)

What does DEFENCE do anyway? Reduce your chance of getting shot down?




Mike Solli -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 9:27:54 PM)

I think so. *Shrug*



Mynok -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 10:02:43 PM)


Yes. Somewhere in the Air thread Halsey expounded on this, as well as training. Maybe the Allies with their tougher aircraft can skimp on the defense training but I wouldn't try it with the Japs without a lot of testing.

So you are still talking basically 3 months to train up a group. Which actually seems somewhat reasonable to me, considering that's 60-70 average skill levels.

As far as I know it appears you can disband a group, pilots AND planes, directly into the pool now. That seems to me to be the best way to get trainees to the front. Yeah, you have to wait 90 days for the training group to return, but we'll be rotating groups a lot more anyway.



Djordje -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 10:21:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

As far as I know it appears you can disband a group, pilots AND planes, directly into the pool now. That seems to me to be the best way to get trainees to the front. Yeah, you have to wait 90 days for the training group to return, but we'll be rotating groups a lot more anyway.



No it is not.
When you disband them into the pool they lose experience (and probably skills too). The higher the exp, more they lose. Exp 60 loses 5-6 points, exp 85 loses 8-9 points. I did that with Saburo Sakai, and once I realized there was penalty I went back few turns before I made that mistake.
Until that penalty is gone no way I'll disband anything to the pool.



Mynok -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/9/2009 11:04:41 PM)


Hmm....that's interesting. I'll have to research that.



erstad -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 1:06:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Yeah, you have to wait 90 days for the training group to return, but we'll be rotating groups a lot more anyway.



I thought 120 days?



Mynok -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 3:23:09 AM)


Is it 120 for a disbanded group now? It was 90 in Witp.



erstad -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 4:03:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Is it 120 for a disbanded group now? It was 90 in Witp.



The times, they are a-changing.



Smeulders -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 11:04:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Djordje


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

As far as I know it appears you can disband a group, pilots AND planes, directly into the pool now. That seems to me to be the best way to get trainees to the front. Yeah, you have to wait 90 days for the training group to return, but we'll be rotating groups a lot more anyway.



No it is not.
When you disband them into the pool they lose experience (and probably skills too). The higher the exp, more they lose. Exp 60 loses 5-6 points, exp 85 loses 8-9 points. I did that with Saburo Sakai, and once I realized there was penalty I went back few turns before I made that mistake.
Until that penalty is gone no way I'll disband anything to the pool.



There is a penalty for putting pilots in other types of planes (fighter to bomber, etc.) but are you saying that the penalty applies every time a pilot gets 'reassigned' to another squadron, no matter the type ?



Djordje -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 11:22:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders
There is a penalty for putting pilots in other types of planes (fighter to bomber, etc.) but are you saying that the penalty applies every time a pilot gets 'reassigned' to another squadron, no matter the type ?


This is a different penalty. And yes, it happens the moment you move pilots to the pool, not when you pull them out of it. So even if you disband P38 pilots and pull them into P38 unit (new one, or even the same one when it comes back) they will still have lower experience as penalty is applied the moment they enter the pool.

When you disband unit pilots are no longer assigned to it, they become general reserve for the type (fighter reserve, bomber reserve). I guess developers wanted to simulate time needed to change from one plane to the other within the same type (fighter pilots changing from P39 to P38 for example). In the game it would take several months to get best pilots to the level they were before the penalty (if they survive), while I am not sure in the real life it took so long for pilots to adapt. Several days would be more like it.

The problem is not the penalty itself, it is the fact that you can avoid it by spending some time micromanaging your squadrons, so in fact there are two systems for pilot training - one for lazy people that has penalties, and one for micromanagement freaks that is rewarding. I am ofc the latter.

Also there is no penalty for manually changing aircraft type within the squadron. Again I would like to see consistent approach, either penalty for every new plane you change, or no penalty for all (talking about changes within the same type, B17 to B24 etc).



Flying Tiger -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 1:20:11 PM)

And where is Mogami???



medicff -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 1:26:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders


quote:

ORIGINAL: Djordje


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

As far as I know it appears you can disband a group, pilots AND planes, directly into the pool now. That seems to me to be the best way to get trainees to the front. Yeah, you have to wait 90 days for the training group to return, but we'll be rotating groups a lot more anyway.



No it is not.
When you disband them into the pool they lose experience (and probably skills too). The higher the exp, more they lose. Exp 60 loses 5-6 points, exp 85 loses 8-9 points. I did that with Saburo Sakai, and once I realized there was penalty I went back few turns before I made that mistake.
Until that penalty is gone no way I'll disband anything to the pool.



There is a penalty for putting pilots in other types of planes (fighter to bomber, etc.) but are you saying that the penalty applies every time a pilot gets 'reassigned' to another squadron, no matter the type ?



There is a penalty EVERYTIME you disband a group and the Pilots go into the pool. I am sure about the experience penalty as Djordje said, but do not know about indiv skills being penalized.




Mike Solli -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 1:36:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

And where is Mogami???


Good question. He returned safely from Kuwait late last year and had mentioned that he is now married. I'll give him a holler to see what he's been up to and to come in and say hi.



stuman -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 2:54:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

And where is Mogami???


Good question. He returned safely from Kuwait late last year and had mentioned that he is now married. I'll give him a holler to see what he's been up to and to come in and say hi.


So it could be said that he jumped out of the frying pan, into the fire. If one were a bit cynical. Which none of us are of course.



Mistmatz -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 7:03:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Djordje


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

As far as I know it appears you can disband a group, pilots AND planes, directly into the pool now. That seems to me to be the best way to get trainees to the front. Yeah, you have to wait 90 days for the training group to return, but we'll be rotating groups a lot more anyway.



No it is not.
When you disband them into the pool they lose experience (and probably skills too). The higher the exp, more they lose. Exp 60 loses 5-6 points, exp 85 loses 8-9 points. I did that with Saburo Sakai, and once I realized there was penalty I went back few turns before I made that mistake.
Until that penalty is gone no way I'll disband anything to the pool.




Is he in your game still flying the same aircraft class or did he eventually switch. Like from a fighter to a bomber or something like that?



Halsey -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 8:51:59 PM)

Pilots training for different types of aircraft will start cross training to related skills, once they reach 60+ in the main skill.[;)]

General training, based on altitude, will cross train the entire skills available.

For example:
Fighters, skill escort/sweep.
Air, defence, and straffing.

Bombers, skill ground.
Ground, defence and air.



Djordje -> RE: Mogami Pilot Training -- still viable? (9/10/2009 10:50:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz
Is he in your game still flying the same aircraft class or did he eventually switch. Like from a fighter to a bomber or something like that?


Still fighter, Zero ofc.

I've never seen pilots of one type being pulled into another (fighter pilots pulled to bomber squadrons for example). I know manual mentions it, so I guess it will only happen later in the war when Japanese pilot pool is completely empty and you start training untrained cadets.



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