No Venetian Frigates? (Full Version)

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Dancing Bear -> No Venetian Frigates? (9/11/2009 12:24:51 AM)

Does anyone know why Venetian Free State has a heavy fleet counter, but not a light fleet counter? Every other minor in the game with fleets has both. It seems strange that Venice can buils ships of the line, but not frigates.

I’m thinking this is an oversight, which the Marshall could readily correct by adding a light fleet counter to the base scenario. Marshall could you add a light fleet counter to the Venetian Free State?



ndrose -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/11/2009 3:58:10 AM)

On the other hand, the Venice heavies go up to 20, whereas other minor fleets only go to 15.

I have no idea where this comes from, assume it's an EiH thing. Any basis in history, anyone know?



easterner -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/11/2009 5:01:16 AM)

Note that Venice stars as Au minor, Au has no heavies, Major heavies hold 20. So Ven Heavy is meant to be 'backdoor' Au heavy it seems.



Mardonius -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/11/2009 1:39:28 PM)

There is no historical basis for this ommission of frigates. Recommend that Venice be treated as the other naval minors.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/11/2009 2:58:45 PM)

I will look at the OOB to see if they should have one???



Rosen -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/11/2009 9:19:19 PM)

At least they had Frigates up to 1797.....

http://3decks.pbworks.com/Venetian+Small+Frigates



easterner -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/15/2009 3:10:06 AM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_%281811%29

Battle of Lissa 1809



Dancing Bear -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/16/2009 2:04:23 AM)

Well Marshall, looking at Easterners post, I think this means that you should add a light fleet counter to the Venetian free state.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/16/2009 12:56:22 PM)

I need to look back at the original OOB and see why/if Venetia had a light fleet and if not why?
I'm certainly not going to argue the historical facts BUT need to be VERY careful what I add here!




Dancing Bear -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/16/2009 11:35:37 PM)

I know the original EIA had a fleet counter for Venice, if it were part of the Kingdom of Italy (something hard to implement for us). However, where do you get the OBB information from? is it something we can look up?



Marshall Ellis -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/17/2009 12:47:40 PM)

LOL! I'm embarrassed to say BUT I believe we used the EIH 3.0 OOB??? LOL! I will need to go back on my notes...



Mardonius -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/17/2009 1:28:03 PM)

Just to build on DB's comment, the Venetian Fleet counter is available to the controller of Venetia if the Kingdom of Italy Option is not in use.

He is correct that if that option (the Kingdom of Italy) is being used then one must have the Kingdom in creating to use the Venice Fleet counter with its full 30 factors of capacity.

Therefore, since we are not using the Kingdom of Italy Option as of now, then we can revert to the full (20 HS plus 10 LS) fleet capacity for the Venetia FS without screwing up game balance.




Dancing Bear -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/25/2009 12:36:07 PM)

One thing I just noticed, that unlike other minors, which only have 15 heavies per fleet, the Venice fleet has 20 heavies (all major powers have 20 heavy ships per heavy fleet). Perhaps this explains why Venitia does not have a light fleet?



Mardonius -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/25/2009 4:37:28 PM)

There should be no difference in potential fleet sizes of any minors as there was no difference in the original game where all minors had a 30 Ship Fleet counter available for builds. With that, under the HS/LS breakdown, I would think that all minors should have a 20 HS and 10 LS Fleet counter available.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/28/2009 12:58:58 PM)

I looked at the EiH OOB and Venice does have a light as well.
I will add this when I get a chance.



Dancing Bear -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/29/2009 2:26:34 PM)

There's no rush on this, and maybe all you need to do is change the scenario for new games, and not worry about existing games.

What about the limit of 15 heavy ships per fleet for minor fleets, is this also correct, or should it be 20 heavies per minor fleet like the major powers?



Marshall Ellis -> RE: No Venetian Frigates? (9/30/2009 1:02:00 PM)

DB:

That's probably what I will do is simply change the base start and let the new games get the new light fleet!




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