Can someone please explain this?

Can someone please explain this? (Full Version)

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JocMeister -> Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 3:55:23 PM)
I can´t for the life of me understand how this is even remotly possible? AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 20, 41 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 30,000 Yards Japanese Ships xAK Azuma Maru xAK Katuragi Maru xAK Arimasan Maru xAK Imizu Maru xAK Asahisan Maru xAK Seian Maru xAK Tamashima Maru xAK Okuyo Maru xAK Seikai Maru xAK Keihuku Maru xAK Tohuku Maru xAK Hokumai Maru xAK Hokutai Maru xAK Hukuzyu Maru xAK Argun Maru xAK Ryuun Maru xAK Sugiyama Maru xAK Tyoko Maru xAK Hakusika Maru xAK Kinryu Maru xAK Hiyama Maru xAK Chojun Maru xAK Hokutatsu Maru xAK Izumo Maru xAKL Koyu Maru xAK Yamura Maru xAK Yamakuni Maru xAKL Bokuyo Maru xAKL Buyo Maru xAKL Kamishima Maru xAKL Keizan Maru xAKL Taiyo Maru xAKL Tama Maru xAKL Suez Maru xAKL Gyokurei Maru xAK Kinrei Maru xAKL Tientsin Maru xAKL Shun Yuan Allied Ships CL Java CL De Ruyter CL Tromp DD Banckert DD Van Nes DD Witte de With DD Evertsen DD Kortenaer DD Piet Hein Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!... Japanese TF begins to get underway... Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards... Range closes to 25,000 yards...... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape... Japanese Transport TF evades combat... How can a huge convoy consisting of almost 40 ships manage to evade a surface fleet capable of doing atleast 15-20 knots more? That in clear weather with maximum visibility?! Not once but three times (didn´t post the two other encounters). I would understand if many ships could escape during the battle but for all of them to completly evade? Seems a bit weird to me...

DivePac88 -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 4:18:07 PM)
It can happen… some real bad dice rolls, and we all know that anything can happen in real-life. But I wouldn’t be buying any lotto tickets, or doing any hazardous work if I was you my friend, as I don’t think you’re lucks in at present. [;)]

rockmedic109 -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 4:33:41 PM)
The Dutch thought they were all warships. Or had a report of carrier planes or an IJN battleship group closing in?

herwin -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 4:40:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister I can´t for the life of me understand how this is even remotly possible? AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 20, 41 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 30,000 Yards Trimmed... Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!... Japanese TF begins to get underway... Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards... Range closes to 25,000 yards...... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape... Japanese Transport TF evades combat... How can a huge convoy consisting of almost 40 ships manage to evade a surface fleet capable of doing atleast 15-20 knots more? That in clear weather with maximum visibility?! Not once but three times (didn´t post the two other encounters). I would understand if many ships could escape during the battle but for all of them to completly evade? Seems a bit weird to me... A stern chase is a long chase, and 12.5 nautical miles is a long ways to spot someone who is trying to sneak out of the room at night. A SAG usually cruised at about 15 knots, which meant that contacting the convoy was a hit or miss proposition. For the flavour, look at the after action reports for the surface engagements in the South Pacific.

emasino -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 4:42:00 PM)
I don't see in the report that the allies spotted the convoy.[>:]

Oliver Heindorf -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 5:49:49 PM)
the dutchies didnt spot the japanese. the dutchies just had no clue. makes sense as the japanese hat the better binoculars at this time. and the dutch ships had no radar at this time too.

dorjun driver -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 6:17:17 PM)
It might have been one of those "turkey trots to water" padding thingies.

Erik Rutins -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 6:55:38 PM)
The key here is the Japanese were actually unspotted and had a report that the Dutch SAG was closing in. They went the right direction to evade, the Dutch didn't spot them, and the encounter was over.

Canoerebel -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/16/2009 7:50:30 PM)
Why did the Japanese admiral who totally demolished a TF of American cruisers at Savo Island in August '42 then retire rather than moving foward to anhiliate the unprotected American transports between Tulagi and Guadalcanal? Because he didn't realize the American carriers had also retired, so he feared a carrier strike the next morning. But in AE that would look terrible - the Jap player would be beside himself as his totally victorious ships pulled back toward Rabaul. Weird, inexplicable, awful things happen with FOW and human error and misjudgment. So the fact that weird, inexplicable, awful things happen in the game is just how things ought to be (as long as they reflect random chance, as appears to be the case here, rather some permanent bug).

DeriKuk -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 4:36:06 AM)
Your TF commander does not have the god-like, top-down image that you have. [:'(]

jazman -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 5:16:01 AM)
I just had the three Hong Kong British DDs run across a Jap landing at Miri, Borneo, and the Jap TF evaded. Bummer! As the combat animation was starting I was drooling.

JocMeister -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 5:49:50 AM)
Well, I missed the fact that my cruisers didn´t spot the jap TF. But as I said this was only one out of three encounters. Here is the two others. I cut out all the ship names but its the same TF. Day Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 30,000 Yards Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!... Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway... Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards... CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 30,000 yards... CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 30,000 yards... Range closes to 25,000 yards...... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape... Japanese Transport TF evades combat... Day Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 30,000 Yards Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!... Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway... Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards... CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 30,000 yards... CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 30,000 yards... Range closes to 25,000 yards...... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape... Both times my TF actually spot the Jap TF. I find it a bit unlikly that my crusisers doing almost 35 knots can´t chase down atleast some of the merchants doing perhaps 10-12 knots?

castor troy -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 8:17:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf the dutchies didnt spot the japanese. the dutchies just had no clue. makes sense as the japanese hat the better binoculars at this time. and the dutch ships had no radar at this time too. I doubt that Japanese merchants were better in spotting than Dutch warships. It still ins´t impossible though that a convoy get´s away undamaged I guess. Just depends on the circumstances.

Streptokok -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 11:26:05 AM)
All in one turn, Imperial commander of the TF was decorated after saving amph. TF [:D] Allied TF chased amph. TF from Tarakan to Jesselton and Japs evaded and escaped: quote: NAVAL MOVEMENT PHASE Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 70 , 92 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Sandakan after combat Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 70 , 91 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Sandakan after combat Task Force 307 encounters enemy Task Force at 99 , 133 Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 71 , 90 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Sandakan after combat Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 71 , 89 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Sandakan after combat Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 71 , 88 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Cam Ranh Bay after combat Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 70 , 88 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Cam Ranh Bay after combat Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 70 , 87 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Cam Ranh Bay after combat Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 70 , 86 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Cam Ranh Bay after combat Task Force 143 encounters enemy Task Force at 69 , 85 Amphibious TF 143 withdrawing to Cam Ranh Bay after combat quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Tawi Tawi at 71,90, Range 30,000 Yards Japanese Ships xAK Meisho Maru xAK Midori Maru PB Nako Maru #2 Allied Ships DD Van Nes DD Evertsen Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards Range closes to 28,000 yards... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape Japanese Amphibious TF evades combat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Tawi Tawi at 71,89, Range 30,000 Yards Japanese Ships xAK Meisho Maru xAK Midori Maru PB Nako Maru #2 Allied Ships DD Van Nes DD Evertsen Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards Range closes to 28,000 yards... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape Japanese Amphibious TF evades combat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Sandakan at 71,88, Range 30,000 Yards Japanese Ships xAK Meisho Maru xAK Midori Maru PB Nako Maru #2 Allied Ships DD Van Nes DD Evertsen Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards Range closes to 28,000 yards... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape Japanese Amphibious TF evades combat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Sandakan at 70,88, Range 30,000 Yards Japanese Ships xAK Meisho Maru xAK Midori Maru PB Nako Maru #2 Allied Ships DD Van Nes DD Evertsen Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards Range closes to 28,000 yards... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape Japanese Amphibious TF evades combat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Sandakan at 70,87, Range 30,000 Yards Japanese Ships xAK Meisho Maru xAK Midori Maru PB Nako Maru #2 Allied Ships DD Van Nes DD Evertsen Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards Range closes to 28,000 yards... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape Japanese Amphibious TF evades combat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Kudat at 70,86, Range 30,000 Yards Japanese Ships xAK Meisho Maru xAK Midori Maru PB Nako Maru #2 Allied Ships DD Van Nes DD Evertsen Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards Range closes to 28,000 yards... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape Japanese Amphibious TF evades combat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Banggi at 69,85, Range 30,000 Yards Japanese Ships xAK Meisho Maru xAK Midori Maru PB Nako Maru #2 Allied Ships DD Van Nes DD Evertsen Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 30,000 yards Range closes to 28,000 yards... Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape Japanese Amphibious TF evades combat

Sonny II -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 6:29:36 PM)
Are these reports from Patch 1?

Mike Scholl -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 7:42:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins The key here is the Japanese were actually unspotted and had a report that the Dutch SAG was closing in. They went the right direction to evade, the Dutch didn't spot them, and the encounter was over. Actually there is a real problem with this report. Forty Japanese merchantmen suddenly trying to raise anchor and evade at maximum speed are going to raise a cloud of funnel smoke that could be spotted at 25 miles, let alone 25,000 yards. Unless we are to believe they were all diesel powered....

AcePylut -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 7:50:41 PM)
With all that black smoke, visibility would be obscured. All the allies would know was that there's a bigass smokescreen up ahead and who knows what that commander thought lay beyond the big black morass. Prolly enough to scare him away.

AcePylut -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/17/2009 7:51:40 PM)
What's the tf commanders skill ratings?

Mike Scholl -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 3:14:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AcePylut With all that black smoke, visibility would be obscured. All the allies would know was that there's a bigass smokescreen up ahead and who knows what that commander thought lay beyond the big black morass. Prolly enough to scare him away. Actually "smoke on the horizon" is generally the first thing lookouts report. After that any good TF commander will close the range to get a visual on the source of the smoke. That's how the battle of Jutland got started.

Mynok -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 3:28:45 AM)
Aren't those merchies gonna scatter like dropped marbles? Sure they are.... yeah, they probably should have overtaken some of them and sunk them, but I don't think the game models that concept. It would be good if it did, but those are high hopes at this point.

DivePac88 -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 3:53:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mynok Yeah, they probably should have overtaken some of them and sunk them. Only ruthless Martian Raiders sunk unarmed merchies. [:D]

Mynok -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 6:22:15 AM)
Martian raiders don't sink Jap merchies, but allied ones...sure. [:D]

Streptokok -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 10:36:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sonny II Are these reports from Patch 1? My reports are from latest official patched version. 1.084?

jomni -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 10:41:38 AM)
NINJAS!!!

Mike Scholl -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 12:35:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mynok Aren't those merchies gonna scatter like dropped marbles? Sure they are.... yeah, they probably should have overtaken some of them and sunk them, but I don't think the game models that concept. It would be good if it did, but those are high hopes at this point. Of course they will TRY to scatter! But remember, they start anchored and unloading against the coast, with the enemy approaching from the sea. That eliminates about 270 degrees worth of "escape routes" to "scatter to". The "action" described is "feasible", but not "plausible". So you are absolutely right that in Daylight the Dutch should have sunk a fair number of them...

xj900uk -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 1:42:39 PM)
You've got to understand that you are dealing with Dutch warships here... It is worth noting that there was once in Feb '42 a communique from Abdacom to Pacific C-in-C in response to Nimitz's question 'How good are the Dutch warships?' which went something like : 'Dutch warships excel at only one thing. They sink faster than anything else we've got!'

Sonny II -> RE: Can someone please explain this? (9/18/2009 7:03:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Streptokok quote: ORIGINAL: Sonny II Are these reports from Patch 1? My reports are from latest official patched version. 1.084? Thanks.

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