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Charles2222 -> Which One? (7/6/2002 2:30:05 AM)
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I've followed a bit of this thread, and here's my most current impressions of SPWAW and SPWW2.
1. SPWW2 has superior campaigning in regards to the generated or WWII variety, though the recent SPWAW halving of upgrade points helped SPWAW considerably. Being able to add units to the core along the way, makes SPWW2 superior in this area as well. I always hated not being able to choose partisans in the USSR core when beginning the WWII campaign in Finland, but as I can't recall if SPWW2 allows to pick them in Poland (yes, the WWII for the USSR starts there in SPWW2, not in Finland) you can at least add them later.
2. SPWAW gets the nod in graphics of course, but I'm surprised at how good a lot of the SPWW2 AFVs look, in some cases perhaps even better than the current SPWAW same unit, but the infantry just doesn't compare, but it's alright.
3. SPWAW has the sound advantage too, though one guy did a sound number on SPWW2, an unofficial upgrade if I recall correctly, which has a couple of interesting concepts. One, the artillery actually sounds as though it's flying through the air, though it's not in stereo. Two, though I'm not sure if I like it, many of the AFVS, instead of going ka-boom when they fire, you will hear what I take to be the sound of the gun going off from the inside of a tank; sort of recoiling metal sound.
4. Here's the major issue for me, and unfortunately I keep going back and forth and can't decide which I like better. I like the SPWAW opfire, but it just seems it's too silly at times, where units fire infinitely, which of course was put in to punish abusers of the "count-the-reaction-fire" strategy. It's too bad, because the interaction of when the enemy has command alongside your countering it by fire, really puts turn-base into something of a bridge with RTS. OTOH, SPWW2 opfire is all controlled by the computer, so it does give something of an element away from hivemind and kind of gives you a little show to watch. The bad thing about this, assuming you can play with controlling opfire or not controlling it, as I can relatively painlessly, is that I have to do considerable amounts of range adjusting to units throughout the game, so that every Tom. Dick, and Harry wasting all their ammunition ineffectively. In SPWAW in always facing whether to decline the opfire or not, this isn't such a problem.
Another major issue which I'm somewhat unresolved about is small-arms fire. It seems to me that SPWAW has the losses far too high at times, whereas, especially in AFV's vs. infantry conflicts, SPWW2 seems far too generous to the infantry. I often feel as though I have to get an AFV within 2 hexes to get losses fairly reliably.
5. Though a seemingly minor issue, this overall issue has me playing SPWW2 for SP play at the moment; it tips the scales, though SPWW2 even here is short as well. The issue is mines and smoke. SPWAW allowing infantry to clear mines is good, SPWW2 doesn't allow for that. Also with mines, SPWW2 has their being spotted perhaps a bit too easily, but their being cleared by the engineers is definitely too quick and easy. Though such easy work of mines is somewhat distressing, SPWAW's treatment really leaves me gasping for air. It seems very many of the mines take ten or more turns to spot, even with unsuppressed spotting type units, and that is just unacceptable especially with so many scenario designers clamoring for 20 turn affairs.
On the subject of smoke, again SPWW2 comes out in front. I like that SPWW2 smoke seem to always clear, assuming there's no new smoke added, within 2-3 turns, but I can't stand SPWAW's smoke, it just hangs around far too long often enough. Normally this wouldn't be a problem for me, only I get VERY tired of so many of those close battles resulting in infantry slinging smoke all over the place in retreats; it's very irritating. By contrast, it seems the SPWW2 maybe sees them slinging smoke from infantry perhaps 20% of the time, and since it doesn't last very long it seems just right. The fact that the AI will use smoke from artillery, or tanks, on occassion is another advantage to SPWW2.
5. AI play. A tough one, while SPWW2 seems to have a greater realm of placing units, it seems as though it never counterattacks, and just waits for you to cross it's LOS, but it seems as though the general AI SPWAW attacks are better.
6. OOB's. I'm not sure which version I prefer, though I do like being able to pick some offboard artillery in core with SPWW2. I also like being able to pick the same guns with larger amounts of ammo but at a higher cost. I'm not sure which would be historically correct, but it does concern me that AC's often have very little smmo in SPWAW, though I think it might be not as necessary since SPWAW ammo usually has more effect. I also like that SPWAW will let you pick equipment from other nations in core. SPWW2 will only let you do that with support.
7. Maps and visibility. Large advantage to SPWW2 here. I hate all those blasted ahistorical night battles of SPWAW (though I can and have bypassed that - it's just another hassle to have to deal with, all the same) and the severe limitations of SPWAW's map size, while in campaign, are pretty bad.
8. CC. Advantage SPWAW. I can't stand being able to throw every single bit of my artillery through for FO, as I can in SPWW2, or that my movement is fairly unlimited, but I must say that SPWW2 does make up a bit for the CC not being there, in that you will, as irritating as it may be, see that when a squad has lost half it's men, you'll rarely if ever get them out of the pinned state, so that if you don't stick them by the HQ you will often pay.
9. Advance and defense modes. Advantage SPWAW. After playing SPWAW for awhile it is quite distressing to realize that your infantry on the defensive, unless it's a hold mission, will never pass time and see their position improve defensively. I also like that SPWAW engineers can lay mines, though I emphasize that with the way I play I've yet to see a single enemy unit fall to one of these types of mines. Not that they don't work, it's just the enemy never reaches those particular types, though they will reach the purchased mines fairly frequently.
10. Armor modeling. I'd like to say SPWAW, but in many ways it seems to pretty much work out the same, as SPWW2 seems to adjust armor ratings for slope and give one flat number. If I couldn't make up my mind there, SPWW2 not having vulnerable hits does give it something of a disadvantage. SPWW2 does have some mode of panic for gunners of AFV's and maybe for infantry as well, but, this brings up another advantage for SPWAW, in that SPWW2 has no discernable log. If you didn't catch the message when it whizzed by, you're out of luck.
11. Overruns and melees. Clearly SPWAW here, only the funny thing is, I've not once used melee in SPWAW, yet in SPWW2 it has automatically mentioned that they've went into melee when in the same hex. The only way I'd melee would be defensively because of the risk suppression getting quite high from helping fire, on my own unit, sees me always firing direct with the unit in the hex instead. Funny, I use melee and overrun in completely the opposite manner, as I never, not once, thought of using overrrun with a stationary tank (might help a ton against those Finns) with enemy infantry in the same hex. Instead, whether starting off in the hex with the enemy or not, I will get other units I have to suppress the enemy unit and then roar ahead with the AFV to overrun.
12. Upgrading Within Class. SPWW2 here. I just don't like the huge clutter I get in SPWAW from being able to turn every single unit into any given unit, plus SPWW2 works as a good guide when if you're not sure they're of the same class, to not buy something pretty pointless like a tank with high infantry ratings. I suppose, if you wanted to feign an infantry company campaigning, to start off with no armored help, and then molding some in, that SPWAW allows you to change some infantry or HT's to tanks, but SPWW2 allows you to roughly do the same thing, in that you can 'add to the core' and bring your tanks in that way. Without being able to add to the core, a formation started off deliberately deprived of a key arm to help them, and getting that arm later, can only be realized via this changing any unit into another.
I'm sure there's some things I've left out, but those are the ones that pop to my attention most often. I sure do hope CL campaigning improves massively on SPWAW campaigning.
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