Ghost divisions and secret weapons.

Ghost divisions and secret weapons. (Full Version)

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Joshuatree -> Ghost divisions and secret weapons. (9/24/2009 9:51:49 PM)
Well this is just an idea I had for some time. We all know how important information is about enemy forces, the intelligence services do their utmost best to find out which units the army is facing. This is done it AT by reconnaisance points, giving very little or very precise info about an enemy unit, sometimes not displaying a hidden unit at all. But how about the idea of the possibility to place an unit somewhere that does not exist at all. I mean for the other player, or AI, it would seem that there is this unit, say armour or infantery, at a particular spot. He would have to react to this threat, only to find out that when he actually reaches this spot, or does a good reconnaissance, there is no unit at all. This is very different from placing a unit with just some horses of 5 inf. in it to feint an attack or threat, by a "ghost division" I mean something like Rommel did in France, where the French staff could not keep up with this advance, seeing threats everywhere. AT has the ability to not show units which are still hidden because your units still have to few recon points, but I want to give it also the possibility to display an unit, where there is no unit at all. And my other idea, maybe for the next installment of AT2, is the possibility of producing, inventing, secret weapons. As it is now we develop the standard weapons, tanks and artillery. Maybe it would be nice to introduce radar, jetfighters (of which the Germans had some quite promising types), anti aircraft missiles, anti ship missiles (Fritz X) and so on. This way the technology tree would expand much and much further, making gameplay in long games more interesting... maybe. Well my 2 cts you know. Any comments on this? Victor?

SSFSX17 -> RE: Ghost divisions and secret weapons. (9/24/2009 10:46:38 PM)
Fake units could be simulated with a "Cardboard" or "Painted Wood" SFType. Perhaps there could be some recon level where you can see the SFType picture, but cannot positively identify the actual SFType. This could make for an interesting scenario in which you can see General Patton and what appear to be a lot of troops and tanks, but you can't be sure if those tanks are real or just painted wood. Expanded technology tree is the job of mod/scenario designers. I had large ambitions, but am limited by time in real life.

british exil -> RE: Ghost divisions and secret weapons. (9/24/2009 11:00:43 PM)
Some people might call this gamey. We know about the Allies prior to operation Overlord had fake tanks and planes. Radio stations to simulate HQ's. Rommel let his armour drive around Tunis(I think)a couple of times, to give the impression he had a larger force than in reality, knowing the British had their spies watching him. But in AT it would be not really fair, ok to put maybe 1 tank in a unit to give the impression amoured unit(s) would be traveling down a road. But the idea to have a spy ring in a captured city, that gathers intel of units that pass through or that are in the vicinity, that might be interesting. Plus as you mentioned how far into the territory will these ghost units be seen. If ghost units appear then the real fighting units will also be revealed.Then by reading the history we would be able to figure out roughly who is who. But as in real life the green slime (intel) would also be looking where what units were. Would be nice to simulate this. Fog of war on battle casualties too. As in WitP AE (read about this in the forum)Was a unit really badly hit? Did we really shoot down so many bombers/fighters?

rjh1971 -> RE: Ghost divisions and secret weapons. (9/24/2009 11:27:20 PM)
One thing I would change in the game regarding to fow is the dot frontline, unless your army is able to locate advancing enemy units I would not retreat the frontline painted on the map. British exil, in our pbem game, landed in Constanza with the soviets and had it not been for that frontline moving backwards I don't think I would have noticed, until maybe when it would have been too late.

kondor -> RE: Ghost divisions and secret weapons. (10/5/2009 10:04:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rjh1971 One thing I would change in the game regarding to fow is the dot frontline, unless your army is able to locate advancing enemy units I would not retreat the frontline painted on the map. British exil, in our pbem game, landed in Constanza with the soviets and had it not been for that frontline moving backwards I don't think I would have noticed, until maybe when it would have been too late. I second that! As it is now, it´s kind a negates FOW.

Joshuatree -> RE: Ghost divisions and secret weapons. (10/5/2009 3:41:11 PM)
Then there should be two options: a) where the frontline doesn't move at all because your intell is too low, despite the fact that an enemy unit is present. Or b) the situation as it is now, the frontline does move when an enemy unit appears, when you have enough intell about the hexes concerned.

Widell -> RE: Ghost divisions and secret weapons. (10/5/2009 9:33:51 PM)
+1 for the Joshuatree proposal, but with a small comment: It's 1) frontline doesn't move, 2) frontline moves or 3) there is no frontline at all. Of course all three possibilities are depending on your intel level. Once there is a frontline there is various degrees of information about the units present: a)unit(s) present = empty container, b) type of unit(s) present, c) number and type of unit(s) present and d) number, type and strength of unit(s) present. There can probably be a whole range of possible combinations here, but for the sake of gameplay and simplicity, a system like this should be a few basic options that are still developed enough to give the right feeling of not really knowing what's on the other side of that line (whether you can see it or not!)

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