Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (Full Version)

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Streptokok -> Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/25/2009 1:35:35 PM)

2 Air units training, left one 40% no specific training selected, right one 40% Escort training.
Both units went trough patching, dont know what was the effect of patches this is how it is.



[image]local://upfiles/32710/190753405E0C434580AD1590776EF3F9.jpg[/image]



jwilkerson -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/25/2009 7:27:09 PM)

If you want more training use the 1079 build plus possibly the 1080 build.



Streptokok -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/25/2009 7:37:23 PM)

Couldnt if I wanted to. Anything below lates patch (84e?) crashes on my PC during AI turn.
Im just not training units anymore, useless for now. Waiting for patch to "fix it" then I will seek PEBM oponent.

Need someone to spank my newbish ass [:'(]



Nomad -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/25/2009 7:50:40 PM)

Are you sure that the pictures are not backwards. I really would not expect any of the stats to decrease.



Streptokok -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 12:09:10 AM)

Backwards?

Top left is 144th Sentai @ 11.1.1942, below that is earlier pic from 26.11.1941, squad pic is bottom.
On the right is the same thing for 4th Sentai.

hirabayashi is 49exp on 26.12.1941 and 50exp on 11.1.1942, doesnt seem backwards to me?



DaveConn -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 12:36:10 AM)

It looks to me like the squadrons trained for about two weeks and a good chunk of the pilots increasesed in experience and/or skill. Is there something that I am missing that makes this wrong?



erstad -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 5:26:32 AM)

<Post no longer valid as the typos I pointed out have been edited>



Streptokok -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 10:14:04 AM)

Right. Edited the port [:'(]
It was late when i typed that, sorry...



seydlitz_slith -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 1:55:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveConn

It looks to me like the squadrons trained for about two weeks and a good chunk of the pilots increasesed in experience and/or skill. Is there something that I am missing that makes this wrong?



When I looked at the colors I thought that it looked like they were training up OK, but when I looked at the ratings, I see exactly what Nomad is talking about....some of these guys are getting dumber, not better.

For example ( all in the 144th -left unit):
Maj Kakimoto S. Grdb shows 29 in the top, then 29 <in green> on the bottom. Since green means that he just gained a point on the previous turn, then that means that somewhere in between he had lost a point in this skill.

2nd LT Shibayam R. Grdb shows 23 in top and 22 on bottom. Definitely got dumber.

In overall experience, 1 LT Eto K shows a 47 on top and drops to a 44 on the bottom.

Most likely several other examples if you look closely at the screenshots.

This is not good.



TheElf -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 7:58:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: seydlitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveConn

It looks to me like the squadrons trained for about two weeks and a good chunk of the pilots increasesed in experience and/or skill. Is there something that I am missing that makes this wrong?



When I looked at the colors I thought that it looked like they were training up OK, but when I looked at the ratings, I see exactly what Nomad is talking about....some of these guys are getting dumber, not better.

For example ( all in the 144th -left unit):
Maj Kakimoto S. Grdb shows 29 in the top, then 29 <in green> on the bottom. Since green means that he just gained a point on the previous turn, then that means that somewhere in between he had lost a point in this skill.

2nd LT Shibayam R. Grdb shows 23 in top and 22 on bottom. Definitely got dumber.

In overall experience, 1 LT Eto K shows a 47 on top and drops to a 44 on the bottom.

Most likely several other examples if you look closely at the screenshots.

This is not good.

unfortunately, the dates on this screenshot are man made. is it possible they are mislabeled?



vaned74 -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 8:09:06 PM)

Hmm. I can't find an example of any pilot skills going down - the listings on the top are from Jan 11, 42 and those on the bottom from Dec 26, 41 - about 16 days of time.

The aforementioned case of Eto, K actually shows an experience of 44 on Dec 26 and 47 on Jan 11. Don't see the problem?



Nomad -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 8:15:47 PM)

I think I and others have read things wrong. First the date is not normal for me and second the idea that the bottom listings are earlier than the top listings confused me.

Now, I agree with DaveConn, I see a bunch of pilots gaining experience over 16 days. I'm not sure how much gain you are expecting, but it looks acceptable to me. Certainly not what I would consider "useless."



seydlitz_slith -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/26/2009 9:50:16 PM)

I stand corrected. It looks like the top screenie is the later date and the lower screenie the start date. Looks ok to me now also.

Thanks Nomad for pointing that out.



Streptokok -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 12:43:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: seydlitz

It looks like the top screenie is the later date and the lower screenie the start date.


Correct. its dd/mm/yy, upper is '42 lower is '41.

And its useles, couple of points over a month for few pilots. Not enough to keep poor Japs "afloat" when pesky Allies get Hellcats and Corsairs [:'(]



pompack -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 12:51:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Streptokok


quote:

ORIGINAL: seydlitz

It looks like the top screenie is the later date and the lower screenie the start date.


Correct. its dd/mm/yy, upper is '42 lower is '41.

And its useles, couple of points over a month for few pilots. Not enough to keep poor Japs "afloat" when pesky Allies get Hellcats and Corsairs [:'(]


I must still be missing something. The people under 50 in the unit on the right seem to have gained about 2-4 points per person in only two weeks. That seems like pretty fast training to me; it is certainly a lot faster than the training rate in the schools. In fact, that seems to indicate that you want to pull students out of flight training early since they seem to gain experience faster in an OTU.

EDIT: well not exactly faster since I was only looking at a single skill. The training schools only add about 0.75 point per week but they do it for all skills.



stuman -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 12:56:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: Streptokok


quote:

ORIGINAL: seydlitz

It looks like the top screenie is the later date and the lower screenie the start date.


Correct. its dd/mm/yy, upper is '42 lower is '41.

And its useles, couple of points over a month for few pilots. Not enough to keep poor Japs "afloat" when pesky Allies get Hellcats and Corsairs [:'(]


I must still be missing something. The people under 50 in the unit on the right seem to have gained about 2-4 points per person in only two weeks. That seems like pretty fast training to me; it is certainly a lot faster than the training rate in the schools. In fact, that seems to indicate that you want to pull students out of flight training early since they seem to gain experience faster in an OTU.


I have actually taken to filling up some of my ( allied ) units with pilots even if I am still short on planes. I have not done this but for a few weeks game time, but it seems to be working well.



Streptokok -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 1:20:51 AM)

I patched the game, cant remember when exactly. So training was much faster before the patch, will keep an eye on it for now. But there is a thread about air training, people said its useles now, way too slow.

quote:

have gained about 2-4 points per person in only two weeks. That seems like pretty fast training to me


Well at the rate Im loosing figter pilots early in the game (2 to 1 in favor of allies in the opening days) this is pretty slow. AI had 2 aces while I didnt have a pilot above 3 kills, sounds like a really bad statistic for me [:'(]
In PEBM this would be catasrophic loss so early in the war, might be a boring game pretty soon, like second half of 42 since at this rate there would be no Jap pilots good enough to make things a bit interesting when allies get better planes...

And I think that since the edge goes to allies with better planes it would be nice to be able to train some Jap pilots so that Japs could put up a fight or two [:)]



Kull -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 1:59:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Streptokok

I patched the game, cant remember when exactly. So training was much faster before the patch, will keep an eye on it for now. But there is a thread about air training, people said its useles now, way too slow.


The real lesson here is that "general" training is probably a bad idea. If you want your fighter pilots to improve their air-to-air skills, put 'em on "Escort" training and within a few months they'll definitely be much better. Only problem is that one would half expect the "defense skills" to improve as well. Also, what's the difference between "sweep" and "escort" training?



Nomad -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 3:59:30 AM)

Here is one thing to think about. It does not matter how many aircraft the unit has. Put lots of pilots into a unit with 1 aircraft and many of the pilots will train.

This game has only gone to Dec 18, 1941.

I haven't kept track and I didn't set up training until the third to sixth turn. But even if I did set this one up
on the 8th, that is a minimum of 30 increases in 10 days.

[image]local://upfiles/4176/72F9CC48296A46F5AD1FBCA77F7D985A.jpg[/image]



seydlitz_slith -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 10:36:35 AM)

Nomad,
with only one plane, they must all be running around with their arms stretched out like wings making engine and machine gun noises while they learn the ballet of air combat tactics.



Jonathan Pollard -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 2:09:54 PM)

Or they can spend their time watching training films such as one starring Ronald Reagan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiL5Xl9UFa0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9TUCcy0JX0



stuman -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 9:21:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Here is one thing to think about. It does not matter how many aircraft the unit has. Put lots of pilots into a unit with 1 aircraft and many of the pilots will train.

This game has only gone to Dec 18, 1941.

I haven't kept track and I didn't set up training until the third to sixth turn. But even if I did set this one up
on the 8th, that is a minimum of 30 increases in 10 days.

[image]local://upfiles/4176/72F9CC48296A46F5AD1FBCA77F7D985A.jpg[/image]


That must be a very well maintained airplane.



medicff -> RE: Air training - if anyone needs this. If not sorry for spam (9/27/2009 10:27:34 PM)


quote:

have gained about 2-4 points per person in only two weeks. That seems like pretty fast training to me


Thats not too bad depending on starting skill and also slows as approach the 50 mark. Skills don't improve above 50 very easily at all.

But even a just out of school recruit with 30 air/air skill at (avg 3pts/2weeks). It will take an additional 14 weeks to get them to 50 so they can somewhat hold there own and hope for a chance to earn some more combat experience (air to air as well as experience - when fixed) that will get them to the 60-70 average mark and a real pilot.

That also applies to taking a battered unit with 50% losses out and filling with recruits for 14 weeks of training before they can rejoin combat unless you want the new pilots to be cannon fodder. Thats seems like a long time to take a good fighting unit out of action for replacements. Thus the experienced pilots never gain skills waiting for the rookies to train up. Maybe the old fragment training method would be preferred so that you can send a complete unit back into action sooner.

Pilots are not pulled to get this final 14 week boost until you have airgroups to place them. So as long as they sit in pool they are not increasing much at all, you need to pull them to get them ready. Thus you are managing you training pools on map as well.






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