OPs, Docking & Anchored detailed questions (Full Version)

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Deca -> OPs, Docking & Anchored detailed questions (9/27/2009 12:11:50 AM)

My apologies for the long and detailed set of questions, but as I continue to play the smaller scenarios, re-read the manual, and search the forums, I unfortunately still find myself feeling at a lose for certain key elements of the game.



quote:

6.2.14 OPERATION POINTS page 107
"Operation Points (or OPs) reflect the time spent on refueling, replenishing of ammo, loading and unloading of cargo. These actions reduce the movement of a TF during a Resolution Phase......If a ship has any ammo replenished, it will use 1000 Operation Points.

1) Reading the above, leads me to ask what exact order is refueling, loading/unloading, and replinishing of ammo done because it would seem that it is possible to have a TF remove all 1000 OP by simply taking on a single piece of ammo, thereby preventing any other actions requiring the expenditure of OP (ie refueling & load/unloading).

Am I reading this wrong?
Can somebody help clarify the exact mechanics?





quote:

6.2.15 DOCKING page 107
TFs may dock at a friendly base (this is different from ships anchored at a port because they’re not assigned to a TF). Ships that are docked do not suffer operational damage and will be able to repair damage faster than if at sea, but they will also be easier to hit by attacking aircraft.

quote:

7.2.1.7 AIR UNIT TARGETS AND DESTINATIONS page 162
Bombers attacking ports will attack any ships at anchor 50% of the time, however, TF’s docked in port will not be attacked......Planes that bomb a port can hit the port facilities...ships at anchor in port"

quote:

9.3 Ports page 210
Ships that are docked expend no Endurance unless they are attacked. Ships at a friendly port with a current size of at least 3 may exist in the port separate of a TF in which case they will maximize their repair capability at the expense of additional vulnerability to enemy attacks (this is considered being at anchor). Ships docked or at anchor at a port with a current size of at least 3 are immune to enemy submarine attacks.

2) Now I am thoroughly confused because I thought that....

Not being in a TF = being anchored, which = vulnerable to Air Port Strike mission & enemy TF on Bombard Missions

Being in TF = Not being anchored, which meant Air Port Strike does not target an TF docked (ie because it is in a TF & thus not anchored).


So what mission is that section from 6.2.15 talking about when it says "Ships that are docked do not suffer operational damage and will be able to repair damage faster than if at sea, but they will also be easier to hit by attacking aircraft."

Moreover, what do they mean by section 9.3 Ports, "Ships at a friendly port with a current size of at least 3 may exist in the port separate of a TF in which case they will maximize their repair capability at the expense of additional vulnerability to enemy attacks (this is considered being at anchor)."

I thought it was one or the other. In other words, I thought either a ship is NOT in a TF (ie thus automatically anchored, but by no means is this considered docked), or a ship is in a TF with the option of either being docked/notdocked based upon port size.

Where is that separate place? It's function? What's it called? And what mission are they more vulnerable to when in that 'place'?







quote:

6.4.2 SURFACE COMBAT page 130
Task forces that are stopped (loading/unloading, docked or fueling from a port) when engaged are at a severe disadvantage and their ships are sitting ducks for a few combat rounds until they can get underway.


quote:

6.4.3 SHIP-TO-SHORE BOMBARDMENT page 131
Naval bombardment is the only means by which ships may attack enemy ships at anchor.

3) Hence, if a TF is docked (ie refueling, ammo, load/unload etc...) in a friendly port while an enemy SC TF enters that same coastal Base hex, does the docked TF always undock in order to flee/enage? I saw this in a few threads as well as AAR in which this unexpectedly caught some players by surprise (ie their own transports in a TF while loading decided to flee their own port got engaged by enemy SC TF & get mauled). I'm seeking additional clarification on this issue.

Will they always undock in order to flee/enage?



As a purely additional hypothetical example, what is more vulnerable?
A TF of 5 CA docked and enaged by an enemy SC TF of 5 CA?
or
The same 5 CA anchored ships Bombarded by the same 5 enemy CA Bombarding TF?

Will those ships at anchor attempt to return fire even if a reduced & inaccurate amount of the enemy Bombarding TF?








davbaker -> RE: OPs, Docking & Anchored detailed questions (9/29/2009 1:02:03 AM)

Bump.

Any clarification on these?




vlcz -> RE: OPs, Docking & Anchored detailed questions (9/29/2009 8:41:44 AM)

I will try to expose my experience in some of those, I´m afraid its empirical try and error and can´t help with exact mechanics…

Nothing about Op points ....

quote:


Not being in a TF = being anchored, which = vulnerable to Air Port Strike mission & enemy TF on Bombard Missions

Being in TF = Not being anchored, which meant Air Port Strike does not target an TF docked (ie because it is in a TF & thus not anchored).


quote:


So what mission is that section from 6.2.15 talking about when it says "Ships that are docked do not suffer operational damage and will be able to repair damage faster than if at sea, but they will also be easier to hit by attacking aircraft."

Naval Attack mission.
Ships anchored (i.e disbanded in port)
Can be damaged if an air units in Port Strike mission strikes the port (targeted 50% of the time).
- Can be damaged if a surface enemy TF on Bombard Missions strikes the port
- Will not be targeted by air units in Naval Attack mission
- Will never engage in surface combat with enemy TF.
Quickest (self) repairs, and helped by port dependind on size
quote:


Moreover, what do they mean by section 9.3 Ports, "Ships at a friendly port with a current size of at least 3 may exist in the port separate of a TF in which case they will maximize their repair capability at the expense of additional vulnerability to enemy attacks (this is considered being at anchor)."
I thought it was one or the other. In other words, I thought either a ship is NOT in a TF (ie thus automatically anchored, but by no means is this considered docked), or a ship is in a TF with the option of either being docked/notdocked based upon port size.
Where is that separate place? It's function? What's it called? And what mission are they more vulnerable to when in that 'place'?

I am with you here… The “size of at least 3” reference in reference to being disbanded seems strange, I will almost assure its an errata as the program allows disbanding ships in any base, I have no conclusive experience in this, but doesnńt seem in anyway a new separate state.

quote:


6.4.2 SURFACE COMBAT page 130 …
6.4.3 SHIP-TO-SHORE BOMBARDMENT page 131 …
3) Hence, if a TF is docked (ie refueling, ammo, load/unload etc...) in a friendly port while an enemy SC TF enters that same coastal Base hex, does the docked TF always undock in order to flee/enage? I saw this in a few threads as well as AAR in which this unexpectedly caught some players by surprise (ie their own transports in a TF while loading decided to flee their own port got engaged by enemy SC TF & get mauled). I'm seeking additional clarification on this issue.

Will they always undock in order to flee/enage?

Yes (at least every time I have seem it, including big and small ports)
It seems even to docked unloading TFs are not helped by ports’ AA vs naval attacks nor by CD gunnery vs surface threats (what seems very strange to many people , myself included). Given this it is not such a bad move un dock and “fight” , note that they will try to disengage if they see fit.

quote:


As a purely additional hypothetical example, what is more vulnerable?
A TF of 5 CA docked and enaged by an enemy SC TF of 5 CA?
or
The same 5 CA anchored ships Bombarded by the same 5 enemy CA Bombarding TF?
Will those ships at anchor attempt to return fire even if a reduced & inaccurate amount of the enemy Bombarding TF?

Depending purely of the CD of the port. In PH anchored its best, in no-CD situation I would prefer docked, as they can react if detects attackers.
They do not return fire from anchor (at least minor units, never experienced BB or CA anchored receiving bombard)




John Lansford -> RE: OPs, Docking & Anchored detailed questions (9/29/2009 9:17:21 AM)

Ships "in a TF", whether docked or undocked, cannot be attacked by airstrikes that have a Port Attack mission.  Planes with that mission will only hit ships disbanded in the port, and the port itself.

A Bombardment TF mission will attack the facilities at the base; airbase, port, LCU's and any ships disbanded in the port.  If there's a TF docked at the port it may be attacked prior to the bombardment mission in a normal surface combat round.

Docked, loading/unloading, rearming or refueling TF's at a port when a surface warfare TF shows up are vulnerable to attack since they cannot maneuver and can get a few rounds of 'surprise' gunfire aimed at them.  The ships will try to get underway and escape or engage the enemy but sometimes it takes them too long to do that.




davbaker -> RE: OPs, Docking & Anchored detailed questions (9/30/2009 2:44:04 AM)

Summary Work in Progress:




[image]local://upfiles/32792/A41AF462A66F4171B557DDCD60A50B6C.jpg[/image]




Deca -> RE: OPs, Docking & Anchored detailed questions (9/30/2009 3:42:21 PM)

excellent work davbaker

I'll definitely put that to good use




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