surrender (Full Version)

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adamcs -> surrender (10/3/2009 3:34:41 PM)

Hi,

Question: What should I do to force a nation (in my case France) to surrender?

The situation: France has no income (well, at least I can't see any money on her account), hardly any army, has -300 NM, 1/3 of the country is occupied by my forces including a 50000 army in Paris. And her NM keeps creeping up every turn and now it's been nearly 2 years like this and France doesn't wan to surrender.

So please, help me, what else shall I do? [&:]




Marshal Villars -> RE: surrender (10/3/2009 6:43:53 PM)

Interesting! I am sure you have your diplomats in France pressuring for peace!?!?

Anyone else?



adamcs -> RE: surrender (10/3/2009 9:21:33 PM)

Yes, I had a diplomats there. So the war went on another 3 years, I had to occupy about half of France, plunder everything I could, and then finally France surrendered. Unbelievable.

And now, after about 3 years of her surrender, France has an army of roughly 400.000 on my border. How is it possible,no idea.



Mus -> RE: surrender (10/4/2009 12:21:08 AM)

If you are occupying a nation's capital with more than 40,000 troops I believe its a -100 NM hit every year.

Countries that have "national hero" Generals (as France usually does, either Dumouriez or Napoleon) get a large NM boost every turn from having the charismatic leader, plus with a good intake of Spice and Wine the AI can produce a good NM boost every turn with sumptious goods. If the AI also purchased any Nationalism upgrades (the 75 experience for France to purchase Nationalism I is OFTEN taken by the AI) that is another +10 every turn.

These types of morale boosts would be enough to "tread water" morale wise.

You can see morale reports for every nation (which probably should not be the case, thats my opinion) in the country details screen of the Diplomacy button.

Generally speaking you want to occupy their capital, continue to hold it with 50,000+ troops, and then pursue decisive battles with their main forces to reduce their morale and keep it low until they surrender.



adamcs -> RE: surrender (10/4/2009 9:39:25 AM)

Thank you Mus for your reply. Reading the previous threads I thought that there were several other factors that would predict surrender. The funny thing was that I was running after empty containers, army and corps containers occasionally holding no more than 2-3000 soldiers. I can't really make these encounters decisive battles.



Marshal Villars -> RE: surrender (10/4/2009 3:12:33 PM)

So you are saying without any sizeable forces, France continues to resist?

That is an interesting loophole. And it would make sense based on my understanding of the National Morale System. What an interesting situation you have maneuvered yourself into.

It seems that if there are no real forces left to fight, and the capital is occupied, this should be over. Unless there is a some kind of dynamic going on akin to the drawn out resistance of Spain during the Napoleonic Wars! How interesting. That this kind of a situation can develop on its own!

Does anyone reading this think this needs to be fixed? Or is it fine with everyone?



adamcs -> RE: surrender (10/4/2009 7:28:48 PM)

Some other things should be taken into consideration.

1. For instance, I didn't beat the navy since France had a much superior navy force (I was Austria). I didn't even challenge ner navy. Also, surrender resulted after I'd decided to occupy the main ports and had started to advance on them.

2. I set France on very much stronger, I guess it means that they had some bonus on NM. The underground resistance movement is traditionally very good in France anyway[:D]

So, after all and what Mus said, it looks possible that France managed to survive that long, still I find 4-5 years between the besieging Paris, beating the main forces and the actual surrender is a bit too much.



Anthropoid -> RE: surrender (10/4/2009 10:39:19 PM)

As you point out, despite "defeating" the Spanish France faced a pyrrhic and depleting experience there, so . . . there is precedent for a nation having been "beaten" but not quitting.

If it is working as designed, then I say it is nice that the game is not compeltely predictable. That 'ole "Capture the Capital" flag game in which it is a foolproof way to cause a nation to surender (100% of the time, instead of say, 83.5% of the time) always seemed gamey to me.



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