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Deckard777 -> . (10/20/2009 2:49:22 PM)



Removed until further notice by me until modding guidelines are clarified by Matrix.



JapLance -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/20/2009 3:06:52 PM)

I'd like to try it (as the Allies), but can't open it. Could you upload it in traditional .zip-file form?



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/20/2009 3:14:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JapLance

I'd like to try it (as the Allies), but can't open it. Could you upload it in traditional .zip-file form?


Hi. Here is a good zip utility that will work: http://www.7-zip.org/

After installing, right click the compressed file to unzip. [:)]



Nicholas Bell -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/20/2009 5:40:50 PM)

Thanks Deckard777!  You're way ahead of me [:)].

BTW, one can also play the intro game (Schweinfurt- Regensburg) with this mod if your looking to get a quick feel for its effects.

Nick



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/21/2009 3:03:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

Thanks Deckard777!  You're way ahead of me [:)].

BTW, one can also play the intro game (Schweinfurt- Regensburg) with this mod if your looking to get a quick feel for its effects.

Nick



Hello Nick. I wasn't trying to beat any mod release of yours by releasing this early. I just wanted to throw this out there to see how people like it. I'm sure you can come up with something better than this. [;)]

As far as the intro game (Schweinfurt- Regensburg), I didn't know this mod could also be used with that! Thanks for that info.

Also, I didn't realize that I didn't include the 50mm Bk5 cannon in v1.0. Will be included in the next release.



harley -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/21/2009 3:14:17 AM)

this is a better idea than changing durability or gun performance.

My only concern is that in a long game, with lower losses all you will achieve is a better equipped defender, while the attacker only gets less lost pilots. The attacker has to work hard to run out of aircraft, while the defender always has to be careful. If the defender loses less AC & Pilots, then there <edit: zomg!> will be more newer types out there, and more high-xp pilots.





Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/21/2009 3:15:53 AM)

Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.01 *Updated*

------------------------------------------------------------------

v1.01- 50mm Bk5 cannon accuracy reduced by 75%

------------------------------------------------------------------

Also works with the Schweinfurt- Regensburg intro game (Thanks Nicholas)

Download v1.01

Removed until further notice by me until modding guidelines are clarified by Matrix.



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/21/2009 3:23:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: harley

this is a better idea than changing durability or gun performance.

My only concern is that in a long game, with lower losses all you will achieve is a better equipped defender, while the attacker only gets less lost pilots. The attacker has to work hard to run out of aircraft, while the defender always has to be careful. If the defender loses less AC & Pilots, then their will be more newer types out there, and more high-xp pilots.


All good points, Harley. I am wondering though now with this mod that the B-17's and B-24's are much more likely to be damaged rather than shot down, whether more highly experienced Axis pilots and newer types of aircraft will be enough to stop the Allied bombers. I am hoping not; that the results will be more historical no matter what (the Axis side will lose regardless). It will be interesting to see players' AAR regarding this mod.



Nicholas Bell -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/21/2009 6:50:57 PM)

I ran the intro scenario as the German player last night and although I failed to save the game due to my own stupidity, the air-to-air results looked very reasonable given the forces involved.  Unfortunately the AI plotted the US raid to return over the Ruhr which made for a great day for the FlaK gunners - not to mention that "return to last waypoint" bug hit one of the bomber formations which brought it back into the Ruhr!  A ton of damaged bombers crashed on landing.  Even so, the "score" was 71 Allied (I think about 5 fighters in there) vs 29 LW losses.  Without the FlaK I guess the US losses would have been in the 50's.

quote:

My only concern is that in a long game, with lower losses all you will achieve is a better equipped defender, while the attacker only gets less lost pilots. The attacker has to work hard to run out of aircraft, while the defender always has to be careful. If the defender loses less AC & Pilots, then there <edit: zomg!> will be more newer types out there, and more high-xp pilots.


I personally don't like the idea of "play balance" at the cost of history - although I acknowledge I am probably a minority on this.  Logically, if both sides have lower losses it shouldn't have any impact - UNLESS the German production capacity as already been juiced up for play balance.  Then yes I can see how lower losses is going to give the LW an ever-increasing advantage in aircraft numbers.  As far as pilot losses and having more experienced pilots, I would hazard to say that I can't imagine this being a problem given how quickly named  pilots get eliminated.  As others have noted, when playing the 1943 campaign, by the time 1944 comes around all the well know named pilots are dead or MIA.  Lowering the loss rate should be a benefit in this regard.  Unless tested fully though, we can't really know, can we?  The harder I look the more I realize the number of variables (randoms) which must be built into the code at seemingly every conditional statement.



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/22/2009 4:03:05 PM)

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Nicholas Bell -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/26/2009 6:33:53 PM)

You are welcome - enough already [:)]



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/27/2009 6:39:56 AM)

Updated to v1.02

Please see first post at the top of this thread. [sm=00000436.gif]



JapLance -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/27/2009 12:04:32 PM)

Excellent. As soon as I finish my current campaign I'll give it a try.

One thing though, Italian planes in BoB seem to be armed with 30mm Mk108 Cannons instead of the SAFAT machineguns. That would really make them DANGEROUS [:D].

[image]local://upfiles/8062/885ECA00D21047E2AACB24AC5EC940F0.jpg[/image]



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/27/2009 1:28:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JapLance

Excellent. As soon as I finish my current campaign I'll give it a try.

One thing though, Italian planes in BoB seem to be armed with 30mm Mk108 Cannons instead of the SAFAT machineguns. That would really make them DANGEROUS [:D].


Thank you for pointing that out. I made a mistake exporting the changes. [:)]

Made the necessary corrections and uploaded again. All should be okay now. Anyone who downloaded v1.02 earlier, please download again. Sorry about that. [:(]



joliverlay -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/28/2009 5:22:10 AM)

I like the idea of realistic losses.....with historical numbers of aircraft involved. If your tests produced historical bomber losses (taken from real raid stats) I need to ask..was the number of Axis defenders comparable to IRL as well? If the simulation used 2X as many interceptors as IRL (very possible in the game) the losses should be 2X (or more) comprared to historical, not the same.

I was very interested in downloading the mod until you changed the durability of the bombers. Reduction of the gun accuracy makes a lot of since. But based on Harleys warning and what happened when folks messed with durabiltiy in WITP, I'm leary.

I very much like the idea of AI raids actually making it back to base in some numbers. I hate playing against the AI and depleting the Allied bombers so much it breaks the game before I get to interesting aircraft at the end game....so lower bomber (and overall) losses seems to make since. Any chance of keeping both mods active?




Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/28/2009 7:10:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joliverlay
I like the idea of realistic losses.....with historical numbers of aircraft involved. If your tests produced historical bomber losses (taken from real raid stats) I need to ask..was the number of Axis defenders comparable to IRL as well? If the simulation used 2X as many interceptors as IRL (very possible in the game) the losses should be 2X (or more) comprared to historical, not the same.

I was very interested in downloading the mod until you changed the durability of the bombers. Reduction of the gun accuracy makes a lot of since. But based on Harleys warning and what happened when folks messed with durabiltiy in WITP, I'm leary.

I very much like the idea of AI raids actually making it back to base in some numbers. I hate playing against the AI and depleting the Allied bombers so much it breaks the game before I get to interesting aircraft at the end game....so lower bomber (and overall) losses seems to make since. Any chance of keeping both mods active?


Hi. The reason I changed bomber durability numbers was to try and achieve close to the same number of bombers damaged (not destroyed) as during historical raids. This was the only way I could accomplish that. I changed gun accuracies and effects to lower overall aircraft losses.

I do understand that increasing aircraft durability numbers affects critical hits, crash landings, etc. But what I am trying to accomplish with this mod is to get as close as possible the Allied bomber raid losses/damages compared to historical losses/damages. I have been playing for a couple days now with v1.02 of my mod and haven't noticed anything 'game breaking' yet. What I have noticed is that aircraft damaged and lost seem much more historical, comparable to what I have read. Hundreds of Allied bombers dropping like flies within one day or two days just wasn't historical, even for the large raids. All other aircraft losses/damages also seem much more realistic. But this is just my opinion. [:)]

As far as how realistic the number Axis interceptors are attacking in-game compared to historical numbers... I cannot answer that. But I would guess that there are many more aircraft sorties flown in-game than were in real life. And when playing against the Axis AI, there is no way to adjust the number of Axis sorties down to more historical levels. The AI always launches everything it has if available. So again, I have recreated and extensively tested the various Allied bomber raids and tried to get results (on average) as close as possible to the historical results.



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/28/2009 7:43:29 AM)

Here, look at the statistics below:

[image]http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b50ce4b121bc6b6696e50ec7bc2e2ccf6g.jpg[/image]

Now plan the historical Aug. 17th, 1943 Schweinfurt and Regensburg raids. Choose the correct number of B-17F bombers from squadrons with no aircraft being repaired on that day to fly each raid to Schweinfurt and Regensburg. Aug. 24th, 1943 is a good day for these raids. Now check those B-17F squadrons after the turn is finished before going on to the next turn. The results of damaged (under repair) and lost B-17F's should be fairly close on average.

*edit* But, I might lower the Allied bombers' durability a small amount. Their loss rate is just a bit low.



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/28/2009 9:16:53 AM)

I just did some play testing with Allied bomber durabilities lowered by 10%. The results were slightly better.

v1.03 is uploaded with these changes. 



Deckard777 -> RE: Lower Aircraft Kill Rate v1.0 (10/28/2009 12:41:36 PM)

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