Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (Full Version)

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Kesselring -> Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 7:15:32 AM)

I'm play BTR 43 campagn. After allied forces invaded south Italy, some of the airfields lost suddenly, and all the air groups in those fields disappeared. I think the air groups should be able to retreat automatically before their fields are lost. Even they cannot retreat, they should be rebuilt.

BTW, I find that there can be more than 12 saving files when saving a game, but only the first 12 saving files (excluding the auto-saving file) are visible when loading a game. Pls check.



harley -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 7:59:54 AM)

<sigh>

missing from the manual - Axis units left on airfields that are overrun are transferred back to Luft.Reich. They will take around 30 days to return to duty.

As for the saving - I've fixed an issue where when you saved a game it would not show in the list until you'd exited to the main menu *if* you'd loaded a game first... now it rechecks the available files when you go back to the menu.



Kesselring -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 8:13:13 AM)

Why takes so long (30 days) to transfer the air groups? The planes can fly to anywhere in 1 day.



TechSgt -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 8:37:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kesselring

Why takes so long (30 days) to transfer the air groups? The planes can fly to anywhere in 1 day.


Think of the support units and people. In those days, they moved by horse, truck, ship, or foot!

TS



Kesselring -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 8:44:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TechSgt


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kesselring

Why takes so long (30 days) to transfer the air groups? The planes can fly to anywhere in 1 day.


Think of the support units and people. In those days, they moved by horse, truck, ship, or foot!

TS


Supporting personel can be moved using transport aircraft. Necessary supporting equipment should be available at each airfield, at least available in the field where there is air group already. BTW, the allied forces can repair and move everything needed to an occupied airfield in only 7 days.



harley -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 9:30:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kesselring


Supporting personel can be moved using transport aircraft. Necessary supporting equipment should be available at each airfield, at least available in the field where there is air group already. BTW, the allied forces can repair and move everything needed to an occupied airfield in only 7 days.



It took 22 days for 7.JG26 to move from France to Sicily after the battle of Britain, including flying the support crew in JU52s. This is at a time when the Luftwaffe took to the skies at will. In 1943 this was even harder, with long range allied fighters based in Sicily.

The allies, OTOH had masses of logistical support, the comparison is not relevant.



Kesselring -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 9:58:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: harley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kesselring


Supporting personel can be moved using transport aircraft. Necessary supporting equipment should be available at each airfield, at least available in the field where there is air group already. BTW, the allied forces can repair and move everything needed to an occupied airfield in only 7 days.



It took 22 days for 7.JG26 to move from France to Sicily after the battle of Britain, including flying the support crew in JU52s. This is at a time when the Luftwaffe took to the skies at will. In 1943 this was even harder, with long range allied fighters based in Sicily.

The allies, OTOH had masses of logistical support, the comparison is not relevant.



Then why the normal air group takes only 1 day? If there is a warning on the airfields to be overrun, I can move the air groups manually in 1 day.



Kesselring -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 10:10:38 AM)

And I really doubt 7 days are enough to repair an airfield that can support B17



Dixie -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 10:23:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kesselring

Why takes so long (30 days) to transfer the air groups? The planes can fly to anywhere in 1 day.


Because of the logistics involved. A 109 might be able to fly from Italy to Germany in one day, but the Ju53 carrying the ground crews can't. Prepping an airfield for a new unit takes more than a day as well, and once the unit does arrive then it takes a while to become fully operational.

Plus, it's also an incentive not to leave your fighters in precarious bases that you think will be over-run. [:'(] If you're worried about them being out of action for 30 days then move them sooner [;)]



Kriegsspieler -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 5:37:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Because of the logistics involved. A 109 might be able to fly from Italy to Germany in one day, but the Ju53 carrying the ground crews can't. Prepping an airfield for a new unit takes more than a day as well, and once the unit does arrive then it takes a while to become fully operational.

Plus, it's also an incentive not to leave your fighters in precarious bases that you think will be over-run. [:'(] If you're worried about them being out of action for 30 days then move them sooner [;)]

This raises a question, though: In the ordinary course of play, does the German player know that Avalanche (or Overlord, for that matter)is actually underway?Or is his only clue that the Allies have suddenly decided to start pounding his Panzergrenadiers into a pulp? I would agree that if the Germans are informed that a big ground-based push is underway, then he has no one to blame but himself if the bases get overrun.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Air groups disappear when airfields are lost (10/22/2009 6:13:13 PM)

I don't really follow this line of reasoning

you know that Italy is going to be invaded soon after the game starts, so you know, that the airfields in the toe and heel of Italy are in danger (besides the fact the Allies can hit most of them, before you can react)

most players pull those units out as soon as they can

but really, most of the units/airfields that are in danger of being overran, are airfields that are too close to the front line, to be worth much as bases to fly out of, they are going to be hit before you can react

when Normaday breaks, why would you still have units right behind the front line ? the whole of the IXth and 2nd Tac are going to be based on the other side of the line

for Italy, really, before the landings start, all of the fighters should of been pulled out of the south, and be up north of Rome, there is just too much airpower in the south, to make it worth hanging around for long ?

and most of it is short leggeded



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