RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (Full Version)

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Chickenboy -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 1:07:28 AM)

Mike,

You doing any LBA bombing of his Malay units as they withdraw south? LBA ground attacks are pretty effective versus troops in 'move' or 'strat' an operational setting that I would bet most of his guys are in since they're fleeing. Might be nice to start attrition on them with some of your Sallys or Lillys if you can.

Just a thought.



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 1:21:53 AM)

Chickenboy, yeah, I'm hitting his troops in the open with all the IJA bombers I can muster. I'm not doing any bombing of Singapore at all. The only raid of Singapore I did in a long time was the Lily raid that ran into his Buffalos and lost 4 of their number a couple of days ago. The troops outside of Singapore are trashed. As soon as I move into their hex, I attack and push them along minus a bunch of losses. [:D]



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 1:38:34 AM)

Here are the Allied plane losses to date:



[image]local://upfiles/1598/C9D3DE8F451C4CFFBA1C3058AEE55E9A.jpg[/image]



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 1:39:13 AM)

And Japanese Air Losses:



[image]local://upfiles/1598/6F4C54CCED754FB3A996A84AEEEE3345.jpg[/image]



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 1:39:47 AM)

Allied warship losses:



[image]local://upfiles/1598/8804B1A9B02647DEB57B84AEFF806215.jpg[/image]



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 1:40:22 AM)

And Japanese warship losses [:D]:



[image]local://upfiles/1598/396FB891D90643A098B96AC0BB300AC5.jpg[/image]



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 1:52:42 AM)

I just noticed that 12x H81-A3s had died. I'll bet a ship went down with them on it. [:D] I never saw that before. I also have never seen the Flying Tigers at all in the game.



Grotius -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 2:01:09 AM)

I've read the entire AAR to this point, and I'm very impressed! I'm just starting a scenario 2 PBEM as Japan, and this has been very helpful. Thank you for all the detail!

quote:

It's unlikely I'll invade Java until the Philippines falls, but we'll see how long the Philippines take.


I've lost track -- how many divisions have you committed to Luzon? For that matter, I'd be curious about the size of your ground forces committed to each major theater, but I don't want to add to your workload. I know how much time it takes to run Japan!



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 11:20:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I've read the entire AAR to this point, and I'm very impressed! I'm just starting a scenario 2 PBEM as Japan, and this has been very helpful. Thank you for all the detail!

quote:

It's unlikely I'll invade Java until the Philippines falls, but we'll see how long the Philippines take.


I've lost track -- how many divisions have you committed to Luzon? For that matter, I'd be curious about the size of your ground forces committed to each major theater, but I don't want to add to your workload. I know how much time it takes to run Japan!


Hi Grotius. Thanks for the nice comments. Here's the OOB for the major theaters:

Burma

15 Army
55 Div (-144 IR)
21 Med FA Reg
33 Div (at Bangkok, enroute)
14 Tk Reg (enroute)

Malaya

25 Army
3 Air Division
Imperial Guards Div
5 Div
18 Div
56 Div (-146 IR) (enroute - ~3-4 days out)
21 Div (enroute - 1 day from Bangkok)
2 Div (enroute - several days out)
41 IR (30 Div)
91 Nav Gd
1 Tk Reg
6 Tk Reg
3 Mtr Bn
5 Mtr Bn
14 Mrt Bn
3 Med FA Reg
18 Med FA Reg
3 Mtn Gun Reg
1 RF Gun Bn
4 Ind En Reg
15 Ind En Reg
22 Ind En Reg
11 Shipping En Reg
3x Const Co
3x Fld AA Bn
3x Fld AA Gun Co
18 JAAF Base Force
2x JAAF Bn
1x JAAF Co

Mindinao

Miura Det
146 IR (56 Div)
8 Tk Reg
17 Med FA Reg

Philippines

14 Army
23 Air Flotilla
16 Div (-Miura Det
48 Div
65 Bde
Kure 1 SNLF
4 Tk Reg
7 Tk Reg
9 Hvy Art Bn
1 Med FA Reg
8 Med FA Reg
2 Ind Mtr Bn
15 Ind Mtr Bn
3 Ind En Reg
21 Ind En Reg
3 En Const Bn
56 Const Co
9 Fld AF Const Bn
48 Fld AA Bn
1 Nav Const Bn
6x JAAF Bn

You'll notice I really stacked Malaya and put the bare minimum in the Philippines. As long as the Allies are bottled up in the Philippines, they don't matter. If I need to, I'll send a division to the Philippines from Malaya after Singapore falls. I really don't want to do that. Otherwise, I'll just let the Philippines wither (much as they did historically) and use the Malayan force to clear out Summatra and Java. I'll save PPs as I can to buy a division out of Kwantung to assist moving down the Balikpapan slot if needed. As it is, there's not much other than battalion sized units to clear that out. We'll see how it goes.

That quote of mine above isn't accurate now that I look at the OOB. Once Singapore falls, I'll head toward Java.



BrucePowers -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/13/2010 11:52:42 PM)

Hi Mike[:)]



Grotius -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 12:48:37 AM)

Hey Mike, thanks for the detailed OOB. Looks quite reasonable to me. I also like to emphasize Malaya over the Philippines.

What did you decide about converting AKs to AK-t's, or xAKs to xAK-t's? One question I have about this is whether there's any downside to using an empty repair shipyard for the conversion. In WITP, repairs would "consume" repair points, as I recall; AE doesn't work like that, I gather? So if a repair yard is empty, the only reason not to upgrade is that you'd prefer the cargo-carrying capacity of the original ship?

Also, I'm curious why you like to convert the Minekaze DD class (and maybe other DDs?) to APDs. The upgrade of the Minekaze looks pretty good to me. What's the advantage of the APD -- you use it as another troop transport?

Finally, I'm curious about your adjustments to your opening moves -- sending units to places they weren't prepped for initially. I don't know if you ended up going to Ambon, but you did land north of Legaspi, as I recall. Did it hurt you to switch troops to zero prep points and land at those places?

Anyway, keep the updates coming. I'm loving your AAR.



Chickenboy -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 12:56:19 AM)

Mike,

When you say 'move on Java' do you also include Sumatra (incl. Palembang) in that same group? If so, how much force do you relegate to the Palembang offensive?

Other players have taken some of the islands east of Palembang / Sumatra to build supporting AFs for the Java thrust. Any plans on something like that or will you rely on Sumatra-based a/c for support?



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 3:57:40 AM)

Hi guys. Man, all the questions. First of all, Bruce, I owe you a lengthy message. I'll try and find the time tomorrow. Now on to the questions.

Grotius:

xAK <--> xAK-t <--> AK delimma: Currently I haven't converted anything to the -t. There really aren't any to spare where I am able to do it. I need to study the different types and see what model I will convert. So far, I've used xAPs to move divisions around, and it's been all Transport TFs for that. My intent is to not use any xAPs for invasions. I've been able to move an entire division using 4-6 xAPs so it may not be necessary, but I'm still going to do an analysis to determine what I should convert to the -t if necessary. I also don't expect to convert many xAKs to AKs. I will probably convert a handful for invasions after Apr 42, but I'm pretty conservative and don't expect to do a lot of invading after late spring 42. When you convert to the AK, you lose capacity. Gotta see if there will be excess capacity after the SRA is liberated.

APD Conversion: I'm not convinced we need more APDs. They're great for small unit in or out missions. I'll see what's left over after the invasion phase is complete. I believe we start with 6. To be honest, I haven't analyzed this either.

Sending units to places they weren't prepped for: It worked for me initially, but it wasn't against any tough defense. Guam comes to mind. I sent the SNLF prepped for Batan Island there. It fell in one attack. My major units are all committed right now (either in their theater or on the way. The only large unit I can divert easily is the 2 Division, which is north of the Philippines and headed for Malaya. As I capture areas, I'll prep for the next target. I don't plan on having units attack without at least some preparation. The big places will also have a HQ present and prepped. Ideally, I'd like to invade Java with 3 armys, 25, 14 and 16 (north, center and south) if possible, but it'll most likely be just north and center (25 & 16 Armies). At any rate, at the beginning of the game, attacking without prepping worked well, but I see it becoming more important as time moves forward. Ted will have more time to build forts and prep his defense.

Chickenboy:

Java: When I mention Java, I'm talking about the island proper. I'm going to take Singkawang soon. It has an airfield of 3(6). I'll move the 22 Air Flotilla there to keep the Allied navy at bay. (The 22 Air Flotilla will move to Pt. Blair after the Java operation is concluded.) Then I'll move to Billiton 0(5) and build that up to level 2. Then I'll move to Tobali 0(7) and use it as my main airfield to attack Batavia. When Billiton get's its first airfield level, I'll base Nates there. They'll be used to cover the invasion of Tobali. Tobali will base my Oscars. The reason for this is that Tobali is 5 hexes from Batavia (normal range for an Oscar) while Billiton is 6 hexes (extended range for an Oscar). I'll continue to build up Billiton and base bombers there. I would like to use Palembang 4(4), but it's 7 hexes from Batavia - too far for IJA fighters. About 2/3 of the 3 Air Division will be used for the northern Java operation. (The remainder will be in Burma.)

Southern Java: I'll use Bandjermasan 3(3) for fighters from the 21 Air Flotilla. Makassar 3(6) will house their bombers. 5 Air Division will support if the Philippine campaign is over. Otherwise, they'll be in the Philippines. Makassar is 10 hexes from Soerabaja and Bandjermasan is 7 hexes away.

Ground forces:

Northern Java will get the 25 Army and Central Java will get the 16 Army. I haven't broken down exact forces but here's the general idea. I have the following divisions available:

25 Army - IG, 5, 18, 56
14 Army - 16, 48 (+ the 65 Bde)
16 Army - 38, 2
Southern Area Army - 4, 21 (+21 Mixed Bde)

I'm assuming the 14 Army will be tied up in the Philippines. 25 Army will attack in northern Java and 16 Army will attack in central Java. I'll also bring in all the armor, engineers, AA and artillery I can scrape up. Southern Area Army will be used for Timor.

Ted'll be expecting me in the north and south. I'll hit the north first. I expect he'll send forces from the center north but keep his southern forces guarding Soerabaja. A few days to a week later, I'll hit the center with 16 Army. Hopefully, I'll be able to cut Java in two and destroy the northern forces then overwhelm the south.

One other thing about keeping divisions divided vs. recombining them. I will combine all divisions in Burma. I've read too many AARs where regiments are wiped out very easily. It'll be harder to control but that's my initial though. I still haven't made up my mind about the other divisions. I like the flexibility I currently have.



offenseman -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 4:29:15 AM)

I looked at this thread when it started and made a mental note to revisit it.  I should have subscribed but must not have had my coffee that morning.  Finally stumbled on it again today.
Very nice AAR, thanks for taking the time.  <click subscribe>



Grotius -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 7:12:26 AM)

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the further responses. I'll stop peppering you with questions, I promise! That's interesting that you don't use xAPs for invasions -- presumably you don't want to lose those fast troop transports to enemy air/naval attacks. That's a good thought.

BTW, I printed out your tentative plan for merchant shipping. After staring at it for a while I realized its genius: you've calculated the max tonnage for each TF, taken into account TF speed, brought in rotating TFs for the smallest port, etc. Bravo! I intend to use it as a guide. :)

OK, I'll be quiet now and let you get back to your war.



seille -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 1:39:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius
BTW, I printed out your tentative plan for merchant shipping. After staring at it for a while I realized its genius: you've calculated the max tonnage for each TF, taken into account TF speed, brought in rotating TFs for the smallest port, etc. Bravo! I intend to use it as a guide. :)



Did the same. For a newbie this thread is a great guide how to start. Very detailled.
It was good Mike had to wait that long for patch 2. Enough time for planning shared with us.



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 1:47:18 PM)

Thank you, offenseman. [:)]

Grotius, you (and everyone else) are not pestering me in here.  It's a great place to discuss stuff and you guys are giving me lots of great ideas.  You in particular are adding to my to do list. [:D]

You're right, I don't want to lose my xAPs to enemy action early in the war.  We get only 52 for the whole war.  They're fast and they carry lots of troops.  Their primary mission will be to carry troops from the Home Islands to troop waypoints.  You know, Truk, Saigon, Singapore, places with big ports.  From there, the troops will board xAK(L)s (more spartan accomodations [:D]) to their final destination.

The xAPs will be accompanied by the fast xAKs.  The closer to the front, the slower the xAKs (and smaller too) due to potential enemy action and most likely the lack of or small size of ports.  Right now everything is a mess (in terms of how I want to use the merchant fleet) because of the way things start and the need to just move stuff.  The only real conscious effort I made from the beginning was to not use the Std-C xAKs.  I want to convert them to TKs in Jun 42.  Sixteen of the 17 are safely tucked away in ports around the globe (the 17th began the game loaded with troops somewhere).  I hope to find it someday and tuck it away too. [:D]

Back to the -t conversion.  At the start of the war there are 26 converted totalling 40k troop capacity.  The xAPs have 120k troop capacity for a total of 160k.  If I were to convert something to the -t, the Yusen S (to me) is the obvious choice.  It's 18 kts and doesn't convert to anything else.  There are 10 which would total 21k troop capacity. 

Now you got me looking at the xAKs.  Hmm....



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 2:13:38 PM)

Gentlemen, here's a draft plan for conversion of xAKs after the SRA is liberated. Comments?



[image]local://upfiles/1598/E4E0FA1DBB724308946018C6B054D9AB.jpg[/image]



Rainer79 -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 2:41:19 PM)

I'd switch the To'sus with the Kiso-Es if you want to go down that route. The 795 capacity PB conversions gain 3 ASW rating compared to 2 for the other ship classes, which I find very attractive.

I am not sure though if so many ACMs will be needed BTW. Mine production is quite limited.



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 3:23:23 PM)

Rainer, the To'sos vs. the Kisos for PBs is a tough decision.  As you said, the Kiso has an extra DC rack, but the To'so has a speed of 12 vs. the Kiso speed of 11.  That extra knot is nice for all the 12kt cargos.  I suspect I'll end up with some of each as PBs.

If half the Kisos are ACMs, that's really only ~35 or so.  We start with 33 so that's not much of a change.  As you said, we don't have many mines and I made a serious error.  Somehow, I had a minelayer TF dump it's mines at Truk.  Now there are some 450-500 there.  That's fine, but it cleaned out one of my types of mines and I only get ~4 a day. [8|] I wanted to dump 150 at Rabaul.  That ain't happening any time soon.



Grotius -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 3:39:57 PM)

On PBs, I'm going half-and-half between Kisos and To'sus, for the reasons you guys state. I like the speed of the To'sus for faster TFs, but I like the extra ASW -- and endurance -- of the Kisos. In fact, one thing I wonder about is whether the To'su's extra speed goes to waste if it's constantly replenishing its tanks from its escortees. Does AE still work that way? "Refuel at sea," drain OPS points, slow down entire TF?

I agree that we need at least 30 more ACMs. In fact I did a count last night, and I think we need more than that if we want to cover all our starting minefields. Don't we need something like 80-odd total? I imagine there are some that we don't mind to see decay. I don't know if the Allied player will ever amphibiously invade Port Arthur, say. But the logistician in me can't stand to see those 400+ mines there wither away.

On x-AK-t, one thing I wonder about is whether we really want the bigger troop capacity, especially of some of the larger transports. I hate having an entire unit in one cargo hold, because if a submarine or aircraft sinks it, I lose the whole thing. I prefer eggs spread across several baskets. But I understand the new loading routine now makes it impossible for me to do what I did in WITP -- park 50 transports at a base and load 1/50th of a division in each. I can't do that now without rotating the tonnage in and out. On the other hand, UNloading would still be quicker that way, right? All of that might be an argument for making some smaller transports the AK-t's. Or not converting at all and just using the existing configurations, if they give us enough sealift capacity, which they probably don't. What do you think?



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 4:48:33 PM)

Grotius, again, good stuff.

My first thought concerning minefields and ACMs was the same as yours. The problem I see is that I'm torn between convoy escorts and sufficient ACMs. I went with PBs. The reason for that was that it'll take x days (15?, 21? - can't remember) to convert to ACMs. During that time the minefields will deteriorate. I just learned to live with it and re-allocated the existing ACMs. I think I have 2-3 converting. I'm planning on building minefields in groups of 150 (obviously). I will have the ACMs pre-positioned before I lay the minefield. I can't see having a minefield larger than, say 300, until later in the war. By that time, there should be ACMs for them. I eventually will make a minefield plan and convert ACMs as I need them. That's a pretty low priority however.

If you look at some of the infantry units, they are primarily troops. If you use xAKs to transport them, you either sent the ship practically empty or with too much supply. The -t conversion is better for that. I need to think this through more. I agree that it might be better to convert some of the 14kt smaller xAKs to the -t, such as the Ansyu-C. That would give you 990 troops and 2251 cargo. It's also small enough to be able to dock in decent numbers in a level 2 port. That would be 3 of them and an Ansyu-C escort. Not bad, a 14kt convoy with ~3k troop space and 6750 cargo space, some of which could carry troops.



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 8:16:03 PM)

If any of you have questions about pilot training, check out Q-Balls AAR here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2255131&mpage=19�  It was very enlightening.  I highly recommend it.  I'm going to implement it next turn (hopefully tonight). [:)]



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 8:16:53 PM)

Make that here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2255131&mpage=19? 

Edit: Ok, that didn't work either. Try post 563.



Q-Ball -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 8:22:02 PM)

Thanks Mike! I forgot to add: Send veteran Claude pilots from restricted units to the Reserve Pool, and use THOSE pilots to expand Ryujo and Zuiho's fighter groups. Much better that then rookies.

I would only ever use the "Request Pilot" button if the type is set to "Replacements" and you are looking for rookies for a training unit. Otherwise, I would use "Request Veteran" every time. It's a hassle, but you need to do that if you want to keep good pilots in front line units, and keep rookies out.

PS: For you old-timers, all this pilot management stuff makes Fragment-Disband and Mogami methods completely irrelevant now, except that on Frag-Disband you would save some transfer time between pools.



Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 8:27:08 PM)

Thanks Q-Ball!  Again, another wonderful tip.  Perfect timing too.  The Zuiho and Hosho are due into port at Formosa in a day or so and will need pilots after resizing.  They actually haven't lost a pilot yet. [:D] Ryujo can fill up her pilots any time now since they're sitting aboard playing the Japanese version of pinochle while she repairs.



Q-Ball -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 8:38:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks Q-Ball!  Again, another wonderful tip.  Perfect timing too.  The Zuiho and Hosho are due into port at Formosa in a day or so and will need pilots after resizing.  They actually haven't lost a pilot yet. [:D] Ryujo can fill up her pilots any time now since they're sitting aboard playing the Japanese version of pinochle while she repairs.


I do that too on damaged CVs; in fact, after a big battle where Shokaku took damage, I actually disbanded all her experienced fragments into other CV units, completely depleting her airgroups. That was OK, as her airgroups sat in Japan for 2 months anyway, may as well train some rookies.

The only problem with Zuiho and Hosho getting vets....it can take a couple weeks for pilots to cycle through the pool to another unit, so if you request new pilots that you just put in the pool from Claude units, it will take awhile. The good news is that pilots can become available for use, even if the ships is at sea. Not sure how, helicopter?

In fact, if Ryuho is going to be in the yard for a couple months, why not fill her fighter unit with rookies and train while you wait? Even if they aren't "good" enough later when Ryujo is ready for sea, you can send them back into the pool, and thence to ANOTHER training unit to keep training.



Chickenboy -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/14/2010 10:49:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Thanks Mike! I forgot to add: Send veteran Claude pilots from restricted units to the Reserve Pool, and use THOSE pilots to expand Ryujo and Zuiho's fighter groups. Much better that then rookies.

I would only ever use the "Request Pilot" button if the type is set to "Replacements" and you are looking for rookies for a training unit. Otherwise, I would use "Request Veteran" every time. It's a hassle, but you need to do that if you want to keep good pilots in front line units, and keep rookies out.

PS: For you old-timers, all this pilot management stuff makes Fragment-Disband and Mogami methods completely irrelevant now, except that on Frag-Disband you would save some transfer time between pools.

+1.

Also, I find myself 'overfilling' my training groups. Not every trainee needs his own plane and there's no shortage of miserably trained ~35 exp Jap pilots to be pulled from the pools. Therefore, I'll take the 4-8 'superfluous' rookie pilots into the training groups (until the add pilot button grays out) as well and start training them NOW.



bigred -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/17/2010 1:26:04 AM)

I was thinking the same thing myself before I got to this comment.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Actually, I'd think it a bit gamey to use the bonus for moves deep into the DEI. Japanese fleet movements into those waters would probably have alerted the allies that war was about to start, but still you'd get a surprise attack on the 7th, a bit strange I think.




Mike Solli -> RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 (1/17/2010 12:49:38 PM)

Same here, bigred. I'm actually pretty conservative. I don't like to make deep thrusts and capture isolated bastions deep in Allied territory. I'm more methodical and sweeping. [:D]

On with the show....



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