My radar stations are gone! (Full Version)

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Stele -> My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 5:43:37 PM)

Ok, no doubt my opponent is probably reading this, but I'm up against the wall. We're playing the Eagle Day; 1 week scenario. After the third turn he has already knocked out most of my radar stations on the coast, effectively blinding me for the next turn. He has caught up to me in points; the first two days were 2:1 losses in my favor, but this past day has been 1:1.

My squads are stretched and most of the primary fields south of London have taken heavy damage.

What are the alternatives, gentlemen?



otisabuser2 -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 5:49:30 PM)

Have you read the AAR of Swift vs Kevin ?

Don't worry, Jerry can't invade yet. You still have the Royal Navy. [;)]

regards Otis



Dixie -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 6:10:24 PM)

You have two options.  Either pull out from Southern England and abandon some of those airfields, or use patrols to make sure you've got something airborne when the raids start arriving.  Whilst losing the radar is an inconvenience it's not as bad as it seems.



Stele -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 6:27:34 PM)

Thanks for the responses. Seems that patrols are the way to go after reading that AAR. Not sure when the radar will be back up, since this is only a one week scenario, but it looks like I still have the option of spotting the raids manually with raids, and falling back slightly to minimize losses of squads on the ground. I'll consider other things as I read more on that AAR and the forums.



Nikademus -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 6:28:00 PM)

I thought this was hard to do... (killing and keeping killed all those overlapping radar stations)[&:]

curious.




JudgeDredd -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 9:34:31 PM)

AFAIK the radar sites don't recover that fast. I'm only going here on what I saw when I played ED 1 Week scenario as LW...the radar sites I knocked out I'm pretty sure stayed down for the week...maybe not all and I may have re-targeted a few I can't recall.



Nikademus -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 9:54:48 PM)

They always seemed pretty easy (too easy) to destroy but this is an impression from the original game. Granted, there are ALOT of radar stations and knockin em all out takes some effort.



K.Pooley -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 10:06:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I thought this was hard to do... (killing and keeping killed all those overlapping radar stations)[&:]

Not if you've to the gift [;)]



But seriously, you have to make a pretty concerted attack to get them down, and you need constant recce thereafter otherwise they spring back up like weeds.

Kevin



jomni -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 10:28:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

AFAIK the radar sites don't recover that fast. I'm only going here on what I saw when I played ED 1 Week scenario as LW...the radar sites I knocked out I'm pretty sure stayed down for the week...maybe not all and I may have re-targeted a few I can't recall.


Did you recon them after bombing?
You only think they're knocked out but they may be back online once you recon them again.



Baron von Beer -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/3/2009 10:55:41 PM)

Knocking them out may be easy, but there is at least a trade off, to a degree.  In reality,they didn't cover inward, only ~90 (120?) degrees, facing outward. In game they get 360 degree coverage, which means making a hole is a lot harder since adjacent stations provide parallel overlapping coverage.

If the stations were too difficult, than the pendulum would be too far in the other direction IMO. Using Dover for example, instead of having one or two very difficult stations to make a coverage gap, you would have 7 or 8. As is, they are not overly resilient, but you must visit over a half dozen sites every five or so days. Any one coming back online largely nullifies the others that are down.

Also of note: Raid size. [;)] So many of the attacks on the CH/CHL stations were by 1-2 dozen aircraft. Speaking for myself, "Good" results typically take 60 or more bombers. On the extreme end, I've had 90 bomber raids @ 9k feet do 0-25% too.





kaybayray -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/4/2009 12:34:10 AM)

I believe the Manual clearly states Radar Repair Rate = 5/day. You could probably take a Radar site out for a one week campaign. But you need to recon them daily as your recon is not necessarily etched in stone if you know what I mean.

Not to mention what is brought up in other posts about overlapping Radar Zones from neighboring sites.

Later,
KayBay



TechSgt -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/4/2009 7:26:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baron von Beer

...

Also of note: Raid size. [;)] So many of the attacks on the CH/CHL stations were by 1-2 dozen aircraft. Speaking for myself, "Good" results typically take 60 or more bombers. On the extreme end, I've had 90 bomber raids @ 9k feet do 0-25% too.




Baron;

60 or more!!!
Maybe you should try it with a different type of plane?
FB's above 10.0k will do DIVE bombing. It is a much more accurate type of delivery. Therefore, 1 FB unit "should" be sufficent.
In the extreme, there is always a chance the raid just plain missed.

TS

BTW: I DL'd your spreadsheet and added a few column for delivery dates, replacement rates, etc. Still workin' on it. But, I'll try to upload soon.




JudgeDredd -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/4/2009 7:28:31 AM)

There aren't many FBs in ED are there? I think I noticed one 109 unit...



JapLance -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/4/2009 8:02:39 AM)

Radar stations are small targets, and hard to hit for level bombers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

Baron;

60 or more!!!
Maybe you should try it with a different type of plane?
FB's above 10.0k will do DIVE bombing. It is a much more accurate type of delivery. Therefore, 1 FB unit "should" be sufficent.
In the extreme, there is always a chance the raid just plain missed.

TS



I thought so , but I've had my Bf 110 diving from as low as 6000 feet, which is odd since I didn't want them to get tangled in the balloons and in the end they did.


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

There aren't many FBs in ED are there? I think I noticed one 109 unit...


You can also use the Bf 110 of Erprobungsgruppe, at least in the Dover area. Additionally, later in the campaign you get a larger Bf 109-4/B unit.

Stukas are excellent for that job, but you have to pay the price to LAA and ballons.

Another tactic I use to leep the radars off is low level attacks by small Do- 17 and Ju 88 units. They`re reasonably fast, and if you time them with larger attacks somewhere else they can be deadly to radar stations or other coastal targets.

This is my current game, and I'm pretty sure most S and SE stations are off line. Guess which is today's first target [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/8062/465A837AF60542D9B66A6EEDF3C0D96D.jpg[/image]



TechSgt -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/4/2009 8:20:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JapLance

quote:

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

Baron;

60 or more!!!
Maybe you should try it with a different type of plane?
FB's above 10.0k will do DIVE bombing. It is a much more accurate type of delivery. Therefore, 1 FB unit "should" be sufficent.
In the extreme, there is always a chance the raid just plain missed.

TS

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I thought so , but I've had my Bf 110 diving from as low as 6000 feet, which is odd since I didn't wanted them to get tangled in the balloons and in the end they did.


quote:

There aren't many FBs in ED are there? I think I noticed one 109 unit...


You can also use the Bf 110 of Erprobbungsgruppe, at least in the Dover area. Additionally, later in the campaign you get a larger Bf 109-4/B unit.

Another tactic I use to leep the radars off is low level attacks by small Do- 17 and Ju 88 units. They`re reasonably fast, and if you time them with larger attacks somewhere else they can be deadly to radar stations or other coastal targets.


Using fighters of fighter-bombers around balloons, is not something to recomend! [:D]
Plotting the attack below 10K will result in SKIP bombing, a less accurate method.
They all dive/drop to 1000 feet to do there job.

As a side note: Somehow Dive or Skip bombing matters more than just this accuracy thing, else GG wouldn't have put it in the "simulation".
My guess is... Picture how fighters & fighter-bombers attacked ground units, especially troops moving. But, the flak is murderous. This is definately an idea which is still a "work-in-progress".

TS



Hexagon -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/4/2009 12:49:28 PM)

Well, eliminate radars is a way to play as axis but i know at least one that dont do it vs AI because he play to win killing RAF in the air (i prefer play killing RAF in the factories and in airfields hehehe).

With no radars there are 2 options, left south to gain time or disperse your units in all airfields and use patrols as radars, 1st give to german player the option to use bombers with no scort (fast attacks) 2nd has the problem of fast hit and run attacks in your airfields by fighters and the unit can survive at 2-3 of these attacks (you can loss 1-3 planes and suffer near double damage).

The best use for Fighter/bombers is the low attack if you kill the low radars 4.000-5.000 is good, with then... 400 but you have the problem of AA but dont worry, these units are small and dont suffer the same casualties as conventional fighters (NEVER use Bf-110 under 5.000 in bombing missions, is like send then to dead).

PD: a little question JapLance, what mod are using you??? i like it [&o]



Nikademus -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/4/2009 3:06:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JapLance

Radar stations are small targets, and hard to hit for level bombers.



I tend to use dive bombers, at least for the coastal units. They are(were?) devestatingly effective. Against the AI at least, i don't tend to suffer the massive Junker losses that plauged Goering's boyz. I need to get the updated version of this game so Hard Sarge or dare i say....Speedy can hand me my butt in new and innovative ways. [:D]

if only there were more than 24 hours in a day........alas.



Oliver Heindorf -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/4/2009 10:10:55 PM)

nice map mod. plz share !



jomni -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/5/2009 5:25:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JapLance

[image]local://upfiles/8062/465A837AF60542D9B66A6EEDF3C0D96D.jpg[/image]


Sorry to hijack the thread but how do you hit the PRIAFs north of London?
Are these unescorted raids. I'm almost a month now playing my very first LW full campaign and I still don't have guts to hit those fields.




pejsek -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/5/2009 7:49:04 AM)

You can escort these raids all the way using delay for escorts, I was able to hit Wittering with Luftflotte 2 and Filton with Luftflotte 3, the raids were escoretd all the way, 1st JG with delay 4, 2nd one with delay 14 etc.



JapLance -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/5/2009 7:52:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Sorry to hijack the thread but how do you hit the PRIAFs north of London?
Are these unescorted raids. I'm almost a month now playing my very first LW full campaign and I still don't have guts to hit those fields.


I'm still experimenting methods. Actually this is my second campaign and I'm still learning things after my first one finished earlier than expected.

The coastal airfields are hit by low-level day raids while the RAF is defending the South. It usually works.

To wreck the ones inland I send the Google Earth planes [:D] in the morning and hit them at night with bombers at about 5000-6000 feet if I attack them that same night, or even lower if I wait one day for the info to be processed and discover that no balloons are around. There is the risk of just scorching a few square miles of countryside and make no harm, but casualties are low. I never thought of sending unescorted day raids that deep, at least while the RAF is still in the air.

To Oliver:

The icons I'm using are based on one of the mods available in this same forum. I just changed a few graphics (Power is made from the Winamp icon [:'(], a few factories, the Headquarters...). I won't upload anywhere since most of the work is not mine at all.



Hexagon -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/5/2009 10:50:31 AM)

Ok, waiting for the final version of your superb mod, i like it [&o]

PD: if RAF try to defend the coast use Me-109 in low sweeps is a good idea, you can destroy double more planes than you loss and suffer less damage and of course, send enemy AA and ballons to objetives that your bombers dont need attack (better attack motor factories hehehe).



StkNRdr -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/6/2009 9:33:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: _Stele
What are the alternatives, gentlemen?


Refer to the leaflet.



Stele -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/8/2009 7:36:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: StkNRdr


quote:

ORIGINAL: _Stele
What are the alternatives, gentlemen?


Refer to the leaflet.


I've been found! [sm=00000116.gif]



Stele -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/9/2009 9:55:15 PM)

Coming back to this topic, I went with the option of sending out flights to spot incoming raids. They are very effective, especially when placing them at the various altitudes, however it limits the fire power of interceptors. I also noticed having to be more cautious with the interceptors because of that fact. The Luftwaffe continues to pound away at radar stations, and with so many coming over the channel it is discouraging to see raids come in you can't stop. [sm=00000959.gif]

Score stands at about 50 points difference in his favor, with 3 turns left. [sm=duel.gif]



Baron von Beer -> RE: My radar stations are gone! (11/10/2009 11:15:27 PM)

If all else fails, just remember that tiny little organization that thinks men belong on the high seas. BB/BC/CA/CL/DD/row boat with a crusty old fisherman manning  lewis gun > flat bottomed barges.   [:D]



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