i7 or i5 what to do? (Full Version)

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33Vyper -> i7 or i5 what to do? (11/22/2009 8:24:26 PM)

Hello,

I am in need of a new computer, as my old one (4 1/2 now) is just about past its prime. I know I will get Windows7 so that is not a question.

I see that there appears to be two new chips from intel an i7 (which came first) and i5 which seems to be the new one.

I also have noted that the i7 uses tri channel memory (whatever that means)

I am not a complete noob when it comes to computers but should i spend a few dollars more and get the i7 with tri channel or get the i5 with dual?

I love my wargames (WITP etc..) but I am also a Diablo fan so want something that will play that puppy when it comes out as well.

Hope you guys can offer some advice.

Thanks

John



Fallschirmjager -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/22/2009 9:21:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 33Vyper



I love my wargames (WITP etc..) but I am also a Diablo fan so want something that will play that puppy when it comes out as well.




It will be two years or more before Diablo comes out. I would not even have that on your radar right now.



killroyishere -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/22/2009 10:19:05 PM)

http://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardware/articles/48391.aspx

That should help you decide. I went with the i7 and triple channel 7 latency 6gb memory as it's great for gaming if you're into high end rpgs like Dragon Age or The Witcher and probably Diablo III as well. The i5 though would be ok for middle to lower end game such as your typical wargames and classical type gaming like monopoly or Clue. What's great about the i series is no fsb bottlenecks anymore as the system doesn't use fsb anymore. The price difference in the mobo's isn't really that great $50-$100 bucks max it's the memory that will be the difference both in price and speed. For some strange reason memory sticks of DDR3 have almost doubled since last summer.



Fred98 -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/22/2009 10:40:14 PM)

In case the viewers didn't already know, the Intel i5 and i7 processors are compatible with 64 bit operating systems ("OS").

The older Intel processors are not.

WIN 7 comes in a 32 bit version and a 64 bit version. The price of both is the same and it is rumoured that this will be the final, 32 bit OS and then we all move to 64 bit.

My suggestion is, have you're local shop build you're rig, and get the most expensive processor, but remain within you're overall budget.

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killroyishere -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 11:03:15 AM)

There's an i9 coming in the near future as well. Amazing how fast ones top of the line computer becomes 2nd rate in the PC world.[:(]



oldspec4 -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 12:31:20 PM)

Would have to agree that the processor world changes very quickly.

I'm still using a 6 year old computer ( Athlon XP 3000, 2 gig of ram, vanilla 6800 nvidia card, and windows XP). This machine still runs all my Matrix , HPS, AGEod, etc. games w/o any apparent issues.

I get a strong urge to upgrade about every 6 months to something new and shiny. But I don't play graphic intensive games and can't justify the expense until my current systems dies; or I actually have the need for more speed.



Nikademus -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 3:21:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

There's an i9 coming in the near future as well. Amazing how fast ones top of the line computer becomes 2nd rate in the PC world.[:(]


Always has and always shall be. Thank god i'm not of the type that has to have the latest and greatest or else i'd be building a new rig every 6 months. [:D] Figure my "old" Core2 quad will give me good service for at least another year or two with either a video card upgrade or SLI addition.





SlickWilhelm -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 3:24:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 33Vyper

Hope you guys can offer some advice.

John


Vyper, it depends on what kind of gaming you plan on doing. You sound like me, in that most of your gaming is wargames, but you do get the occasional itch to play something that is graphically intensive. Also, it depends on how often you plan to upgrade. Do you want this new computer to last four years, or only two?

Based on all of this, I would go for the i7 and make the move to 64-bit architecture. Of course, budget considerations may be a factor for you, so you may want to price out a system with both the i5 and i7.

Personally, the way I do it is to build the fastest computer I can afford and try to make it last four to five years. Within this time frame I will end up with one or two video card upgrades, and perhaps a new power supply depending upon the needs of the new video cards. But I generally buy a healthy supply of RAM and a fast CPU to see me through the life of the system.





Nikademus -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 4:05:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm
Personally, the way I do it is to build the fastest computer I can afford and try to make it last four to five years. Within this time frame I will end up with one or two video card upgrades, and perhaps a new power supply depending upon the needs of the new video cards. But I generally buy a healthy supply of RAM and a fast CPU to see me through the life of the system.



Generally has been my way as well though given today's prices i had to modify that a bit. When i built my current last year i 'almost' gave in to the temptation to buy the fastest processor available (then being a core 2 extreme quad) but when i realized that it would add a grand to the cost for only a small increase in speed (per Tom's Hardware website) vs. the midline Quad i eventually bought, i opted to get the cheaper CPU and save the $$$. It's been my experience that one often does not notice a difference between two CPU's of the same class unless the speed is really disparate. These days, RAM, RAM type , motherboard and Graphics card are just as important if as the CPU. Case in point...had a friend who recently purchased a rig with a newer i7 CPU. He was showing it off to me and then talked about his Windows "base score" which ended up being two points lower than mine despite having a older processor. He was stunned when i broke the news to him. [:D]

So i'd say buy quality...your system will last longer but resist the temptation to get the absolute most expensive CPU's......they're just playing on the boys with most toys angle to get your $$'s





SlickWilhelm -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 5:00:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


resist the temptation to get the absolute most expensive CPU's



Agree completely. When I built my latest gaming rig this past May, I decided to use the i7 920 Bloomfield CPU for $249 instead of the i7-975 "Extreme Edition" for $999. The extra money just to have bragging rights for 6 months wasn't worth it.





killroyishere -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 9:12:01 PM)

The funny thing is you can overclock the 920 CPU in about 20 minutes and have the same speed as the 975 you just lose your warranty is the main thing. But, (knock on wood) I have yet to have one burn out on me by overclocking it. If you keep the heat down it's rare one will. Which means buying a little larger PSU than normal and making sure you have good air flow over the CPU. I have fans all over the place inside my box.



sabre1 -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 9:32:16 PM)

Someone, and I forget who (IT guy) told me that you should make sure that you are getting the right socket on the motherboard so you can run the better chips (I7) down the road. I'm not a techie, so someone else is going to have to weigh in on this one.

My system was custom built 1.5 years ago and currently I can still run the latest and greatest, but I did have to spend bucks to get it. Vista 64 8 Gigs ram, 4870 ATI with 2 gigs memory, 9650 quad core 3.0.

I could overclock with this chip, but I don't see the need at this point. Machine "should" hold out for another 1.5 years before some stupid intensive graphics game comes out that I just have to have. [8|]

You will laugh but I am actually looking at an Intel motherboard that will hold more than 8 GB of ram. I know, I don't need it. It's like the old saying you can never be to thin and have to much ram.




killroyishere -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 10:25:34 PM)

The i7 socket is totally different from those below it as it uses 1366 while the lower models are in the 775 range. It would be doubtful you'll find a motherboard that will utilize both.

Yes here's your 24gb motherboard. Nice: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131365



SlickWilhelm -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 11:02:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

The funny thing is you can overclock the 920 CPU in about 20 minutes and have the same speed as the 975 you just lose your warranty is the main thing. But, (knock on wood) I have yet to have one burn out on me by overclocking it. If you keep the heat down it's rare one will. Which means buying a little larger PSU than normal and making sure you have good air flow over the CPU. I have fans all over the place inside my box.


Right. But since everything I throw at it runs smoothly now, I'm going to wait and overclock it in a year or two. That'll be my free CPU "upgrade". [8D]



RyanCrierie -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 11:07:35 PM)

In case the viewers didn't already know, the Intel i5 and i7 processors are compatible with 64 bit operating systems ("OS").

The older Intel processors are not.

Actually, yes they are. I'm running Windows 7 x64 on a Core 2 Quad Q6600.



Aurelian -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/24/2009 11:42:38 PM)

And I'm running W7 64bit with a Core 2 Duo 6400.



sabre1 -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/25/2009 12:27:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere


Yes here's your 24gb motherboard. Nice: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131365



I'm in love...



105mm Howitzer -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/25/2009 3:33:59 AM)

If my old P4-2.8 can run WOW;WOTLK, then it's good enuf for me. Of course, everything is reduced, but it runs, no chopiness either.



33Vyper -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/25/2009 5:01:52 AM)

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I am going to probably get the i7 and tri channel ram...i have tended to have my PC last 4-5 years, but I always seem to make the poor choice and get something that by the end of its life is pretty much useless.  My current is a P4 300Mhz with 512 RAM and one of those shared video card jobbies.  From what I have learned (and it aint much lol)   I should not have shared video and really you must have much more RAM.

I was looking at one of the major manufacturers, won't name them but rhymes with hell, because we get a discount through my office on their hardware.

Any thoughts on video cards?  nVidia? or Gforce ones? 

I dont have to have the biggest or the best, just want something that is going to last me 4-5 years and not give me out of memory errors because it hates flash, or flips out when you try to run multiple apps.

Again thanks for all your advice I truly appreciate it !

John





killroyishere -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/25/2009 7:56:26 AM)

HD 4870 will take you into 5 years down the road. Christmas sales might net you a $100 savings if you shop around. Go for the 1gb model if you can afford it though 512mb will do alright as well. Just depends on how heavy you are into mainstream FPS or RPG games? If you go the Nvidia/Geforce route then probably a 260. Both are querky with some games, but, I'm finding the Raedon/ATI models don't have the issues with wargames that Nvidia does. Medieval Total War won't even run on an Nvidia card higher than 7800.

You can also shop X2 models of video cards as some of these are cheaper and give the same power as the more expensive $400-$500 cards. There was a 3870 X2 model out there for awhile at around $160 that gave performance levels equal to the 4870. As always you want to buy as much as you can afford, but, I wouldn't go over $200 max for a video card as technology hasn't even caught up to those cards hardly. Those $400-$500 cards are just epeen cards because the human eye can only see 30fps anyway so beyond 70fps on any game is a waste. Check out Tom's hardware website for more info on uptodate video cards and info and pricing.



SlickWilhelm -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/25/2009 2:20:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 33Vyper

  I should not have shared video and really you must have much more RAM.



You can rest easy that you are not the only one to fall into this trap. If you're not a geek, it's easy to shop by the price tag and overlook the specs.

It's a huge disservice to their customers for computers retailers(and manufactures) to
sell a low-priced computer with shared video RAM and inadequate system RAM. In the end they end up with a dissatisfied customer, which could have easily been prevented with a little more honesty and realistic system specs before the purchase.

Vyper, if you'd like to take this conversation offline, I'd be happy to work with you on picking out parts on a PC that will fit your budget and your needs. Please PM me if you're interested.



sabre1 -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/25/2009 5:10:21 PM)

IMHO, discussing this online, helps all the nontech people to learn and make more informed decisions. I for one am enjoying reading this thread and learning quite a bit to boot. (pun intended)



Fred98 -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/25/2009 9:18:58 PM)

My suggestion is nVidia.

Only because on wargame forums, those with nVidia seem to have fewer problems.
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SlickWilhelm -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/27/2009 4:06:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

IMHO, discussing this online, helps all the nontech people to learn and make more informed decisions. I for one am enjoying reading this thread and learning quite a bit to boot. (pun intended)


Sabre, if you have any specific questions in mind, please ask. I just offered to go offline with Vyper because I thought that maybe he wouldn't want everyone to know what his budget for his new PC was.



rhondabrwn -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/27/2009 5:28:36 PM)

And then you could go AMD CPU and ATI graphics just to help keep some competition alive in the industry. I love to see the interplay between Intel and AMD / ATI and Nvidea as they constantly try to "one up" each other while slashing prices to compete.

We would all be the losers if we ever end up with a complete Intel monopoly.

Just a thought. [;)]



sabre1 -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/27/2009 5:56:28 PM)

I agree with you Rhondabrwn, and I have owned an AMD system, but the current chips when compaing performance for gaming just don't hold up well to the Intel chips at "this point in time".

I like AMD and my current video card is an ATI 4870 2 GB.

Thanks Slick Wilhelm! Your point is valid and very genteel.



rhondabrwn -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/27/2009 6:11:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

I agree with you Rhondabrwn, and I have owned an AMD system, but the current chips when compaing performance for gaming just don't hold up well to the Intel chips at "this point in time".

I like AMD and my current video card is an ATI 4870 2 GB.

Thanks Slick Wilhelm! Your point is valid and very genteel.


Ah, but AMD is holding it's own on the pricing and as has been pointed out above the noticeable performance difference between CPU's isn't always that great. My two latest builds (one of which was a budget build) are using AMD Phenom and Phenom II CPU's and I rarely get above 20% CPU utilization even when running something like MS Flight Simulator X on highest settings. I'm not in to "shooters" but the free demos run equally well with frame rates between 40 and 70+. I might mention that I have an ATI HD4850 graphics card in one and a low end HD4670 in the other and they both run quite acceptably.

I think one could make a credible argument that at the moment hardware has really outrun the capability of programmers to create new games that can even begin to keep up with the potential (at least while producing a marketable product that runs on enough installed systems). There is a point where "eye candy" really can't be improved further when you are already up to photorealism levels. Then a great game is going to be about design and gameplay, not frame rates and graphics. That, IMHO, is a very good thing.



NefariousKoel -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/27/2009 8:37:34 PM)

You'll save money going AMD and won't notice the difference if you're buying high end stuff. 

I guess if you have extra money you feel like burning, then go all out but you don't really need the higher priced Intel stuff over the more reasonable AMDs.  I tend to build a new one when I can afford it and when it costs less, I can afford a new one more often. [;)]



milkweg -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/28/2009 5:32:40 AM)

THere is i7 with dual channel and tri channel. Latest version is dual channel. i7 920 may be a tad faster but it is far from the best bang for buck cpu to be had. That crown goes to i5 750. Same speed as i7 860 but no hyperthreading (woop-dee-doo) and was $100.00 less. These CPUs overclock quite well and that is where the real bang-for-buck comes into play. I have my i5 750 OC to 4.0gh but have set power management to balanced so it downclocks to 1.7ghz during web web browsing etc. and OC to 4.0ghz when gaming etc. That's the way to use these new CPUs and don't force them to OC all the time. I was playing chess and running CPUZ and could see my i5 750 OC when it was the computers turn and auto downclock when it was my turn. They don't just handle the OC automatically but the CPU and Ram volatages too, with correct bios settings and balanced power mangement in Vista/Win7. More volts when in OC mode and less when in downclock mode. The cpu will use various sppeds depending on the task at hand but for intensive 3D games it is always OC to 4.0ghz.

BTW, i7 920 motherboards cost quite a bit more than the dual channel i7/i5 motherboards. You want fast and cheap? Then buy i5 750, Asus P7P55D LE motherboard and 2x2GB DDR3 1600 ram and then OC it. If you feel you need to pay more for marginal benefit then feel free to waste your money on i7 920.



milkweg -> RE: i7 or i5 what to do? (11/28/2009 5:34:46 AM)

sorry, double post



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