RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (Full Version)

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Kull -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (9/10/2016 10:55:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Korvar

Kull's spreadsheet really got me started on the grand campaign. I remember it took hours to finally finish, but by the end of it I knew the interface well enough to continue on my own.

When I finished the first turn, I saved it to have a copy on hand.


Bolded for truth! That was the primary intent of having the spreadsheet tackle so many areas on Turn 2. As AE veterans know, you can be fairly lackadaisical as the Allied player, since time is absolutely on your side. BUT, by the time you actually go through the spreadsheet and do all these things, it builds the "muscle memory" on using the interface. On subsequent turns not only is there less to do (at least initially), but mainly you have a fairly good feel for how things work.

But yes...hours...it's dreadful while you're doing it, but in the long run the pain is worth it!



Kull -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (9/10/2016 11:05:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gandalf

Yes, although it's very useful for getting a first turn layout, it's also very useful to see the various different ways he goes about accomplishing some movement settings. One that really hit me between the eyes because it was so obvious is moving cargo/transports from like say Sidney to Los Angeles. He accomplishes this with Remain On Station (at Los Angeles) and keeps the Home Port setting at Sidney. At first when playing, I would see all the RED and think uh oh, better switch the home port to Los Angeles and voila... everything is green again, then check again later for rerouting back to Sidney (but forgetting that it came from Sidney in the first place.

edit> Hmmm, looks like Kull's post #53 thinks the home porting idea is the way to go and he intends to revise the spreadsheet at some indeterminate time in the future, so maybe it doesn't refuel in Los Angeles just because its Remaining On Station.
So maybe home porting with a message description re: where it's from would be the better way?


One reason I kept the original home ports was just out of curiosity - it was interesting minutiae to see where all these different ships were coming from as they arrived in LA. Speaking purely of the US-Australia convoys, you ALWAYS refuel convoys in the US continent ports. In the opening few months, I try to keep them from fueling up in Australia or any of the non-Pearl ports, but eventually Australia will be swimming with fuel, especially once you get those big Tanker TFs making regular runs.



Gandalf -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (9/13/2016 7:20:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

One reason I kept the original home ports was just out of curiosity - it was interesting minutiae to see where all these different ships were coming from as they arrived in LA. Speaking purely of the US-Australia convoys, you ALWAYS refuel convoys in the US continent ports. In the opening few months, I try to keep them from fueling up in Australia or any of the non-Pearl ports, but eventually Australia will be swimming with fuel, especially once you get those big Tanker TFs making regular runs.


I thought maybe that was your reason for using Remain on Station (Tracking purposes). Wasn't sure if it was for curiosity or whether you wanted them to really return to their original home port with whatever they were eventually loading up with. I eventually went ahead and used the Set Home Port change but used the TF info box to note where they came from [From Brisbane] for example, cuing myself to check Brisbane to see what it needed before cutting return orders later in the game. I even amended my copy of your spreadsheet in those cases to ensure that I did the same thing if I ever had to go thru the spreadsheet again.



BBfanboy -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (9/14/2016 8:37:30 AM)

Personally I don't like the composition of many of the at-start TFs. Too many have dissimilar ships in speed, capacity or range. I try to get most of them to a few relatively safe big ports and then reallocate them to more homogeneous TFs where possible.
I particularly hate having a bunch of empty (fully unloaded) ships sitting in a vulnerable port while the one or two bigger ships in the TF are still unloading.



Korvar -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (9/15/2016 8:34:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Bolded for truth! That was the primary intent of having the spreadsheet tackle so many areas on Turn 2. As AE veterans know, you can be fairly lackadaisical as the Allied player, since time is absolutely on your side. BUT, by the time you actually go through the spreadsheet and do all these things, it builds the "muscle memory" on using the interface. On subsequent turns not only is there less to do (at least initially), but mainly you have a fairly good feel for how things work.

But yes...hours...it's dreadful while you're doing it, but in the long run the pain is worth it!


I'd like to take the opportunity to thank you for taking the time to put together the spreadsheet - I'm sure it took you many more hours to do so.

Yes, you make a good point specifically mentioning muscle memory - running through your spreadsheet reminded me of learning to type on a computer keyboard - I was pretty decent at the 'hunt and peck' method of typing with individual fingers; the habit was broken through sheer brute force / rote memorization to acquire the muscle memory necessary for proper typing.

Not only did your spreadsheet teach the essential actions necessary to get through the orders phase, but through it I also acquired an intuitive sense to 'grok' interface features that were introduced in later patches and/or are less frequently used. Thanks again!



CrackSabbath -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (9/27/2016 7:02:47 PM)

I'll join the chorus of thanks! THANKS!!!

I'm getting a new PBEM underway, and I found it especially helpful in China. I really struggled there in my first PBEM game (which is about to conclude); I got routed there by mid-late '42, and the LCU's freed up have caused me endless grief ever since (compounding my other newbie PBEM gaffes). I still may get smacked down in China, but should put up a more coherent fight.

I take BBfanboy's approach with Cargo/Tanker TF's as I organize them by speed; <10knots, 10 knots, 12 knots, 13-14 knots, >15knots. However, the suggestions of where to disperse them to was helpful.

Thanks again! [&o]



haegint -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (12/3/2016 3:40:19 PM)

That is a most useful tool to have, especially as Newbie. Thanks so much, Kull!



btd64 -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (2/5/2017 2:45:47 PM)

BUMP....GP



Steven545 -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (2/19/2017 8:49:26 PM)

I have owned this truly magnificent game for over 5 years but never taken on the daunting task of playing a campaign until now. With the help of this fine piece of work I have managed to start understanding how to get the game working for me. So thank you Kull [&o][&o][&o].



Kull -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (2/19/2017 9:22:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steven545

I have owned this truly magnificent game for over 5 years but never taken on the daunting task of playing a campaign until now. With the help of this fine piece of work I have managed to start understanding how to get the game working for me. So thank you Kull [&o][&o][&o].


My pleasure man! Anything to help folks up the first stage of the learning cliff. Sometimes it feels like you'll never get everything done on T2, but you're learning all the while and Turn#3 is going to be sooooo much easier!



Kull -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (3/14/2017 12:36:04 AM)

After seven years and 2700 downloads, the AE-Allies Setup Spreadsheet has been revised, enhanced, and uploaded (see attachment to Post #1). This version closely mirrors the format used in the Japan Set-up spreadsheet and features 7 completely new worksheet tabs (to include "Getting Started") and includes changes to 1586 of the 4653 data rows. The opening five posts of this thread have been updated to fully reflect all the new information.

It's gratifying and somewhat surprising to see how many folks continue to use this spreadsheet as their "gateway" into WitP-AE, so in retrospect, this update was long overdue. For anyone who hasn't yet made the plunge, hopefully this will be just the little push you needed!



Skyros -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (3/14/2017 4:23:13 PM)

Thanks!



AlessandroD -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (3/22/2017 12:09:11 PM)

Thanks [&o]



traskott -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (3/22/2017 3:31:15 PM)

Oooh, boy!! Thanks!!![&o]



Aksully -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (6/23/2019 11:40:18 PM)

Kull,
Maybe the first download in 2019 but did so today. An amazing undertaking that to me stands out as one of the great player done tools. Just starting my journey into this out-dated Grisby game classic. This is really quite an achievement in scope and usefulness.

For me it's not what needs/should/could be done but what I do considering your suggestions and to keep track of actions taken. I just completed the Day 1 turn and will use this gem....Great job!



Kull -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (6/24/2019 12:03:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

Kull,
Maybe the first download in 2019 but did so today. An amazing undertaking that to me stands out as one of the great player done tools. Just starting my journey into this out-dated Grisby game classic. This is really quite an achievement in scope and usefulness.

For me it's not what needs/should/could be done but what I do considering your suggestions and to keep track of actions taken. I just completed the Day 1 turn and will use this gem....Great job!


Happy to be of assistance! [sm=00000436.gif]



Nowi Ribak -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (6/24/2019 2:13:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

Kull,
Maybe the first download in 2019 but did so today. An amazing undertaking that to me stands out as one of the great player done tools. Just starting my journey into this out-dated Grisby game classic. This is really quite an achievement in scope and usefulness.

For me it's not what needs/should/could be done but what I do considering your suggestions and to keep track of actions taken. I just completed the Day 1 turn and will use this gem....Great job!


Let me say that Kull's spreadsheet also helped me setting up the Allies at the beginning.

@Kull - thank you very much, I just started in 2019 and your work is very much appreciated :-)



Yaab -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (6/24/2019 3:19:52 PM)

Enjoy the game! On a long enough timeline, the WITP AE's per-hour cost drops to zero.



Moltrey -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (6/25/2019 12:15:27 AM)

I'd like to add that your spreadsheet helps in a number of ways, at least for me.
Practicing with orders to fulfill those rows is great, along with getting used to where areas actually are located and what units reside there.

Another big one for me is that moving through the Allied Setup made me think about what moves you were making and why.
Some I choose to change from the get-go, but not a lot. But the thought process gets your gourd working on the right kinds of things for WITP, so thanks!

I have some mini pie-in-the-sky ideas for paying back the community. I think I will keep the specifics to myself for now, but let's just say that all you guys who have gone above and beyond inspire me to do more than just learn and play.



Kull -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (6/25/2019 3:19:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

I'd like to add that your spreadsheet helps in a number of ways, at least for me.
Practicing with orders to fulfill those rows is great, along with getting used to where areas actually are located and what units reside there.


That's one of those things that WitP-AE veterans kind of forget about. The complexity of the game is one thing, but all the units and where they are! A big part of the learning cliff!

quote:

Another big one for me is that moving through the Allied Setup made me think about what moves you were making and why.
Some I choose to change from the get-go, but not a lot. But the thought process gets your gourd working on the right kinds of things for WITP, so thanks!


Korvar and I talked about that (OMG! Almost 3 years ago!) - one of the most important parts of the spreadsheet is "building the muscle memory" of all the things one needs to know. So by all means, change away....it means the core knowledge is seeping in and you're piecing it all together!

quote:

I have some mini pie-in-the-sky ideas for paying back the community. I think I will keep the specifics to myself for now, but let's just say that all you guys who have gone above and beyond inspire me to do more than just learn and play.


This is a GREAT forum, full of folks that are happy to help others. I'm frankly in awe of the sheer number of people who've developed amazing tools or detailed guides or even just take the time to answer questions, no matter how basic or complex. It's a *good* place!



Aksully -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/2/2019 1:45:21 AM)

So Kull as I look through the moves...you suggest convoys of fuel and supply out of Townsville to Horn Island. To what end? Local use or to forward where? Would have loved to see a Turn 3 suggestion! An amazing document to be sure. Brilliant



BBfanboy -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/2/2019 2:03:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

So Kull as I look through the moves...you suggest convoys of fuel and supply out of Townsville to Horn Island. To what end? Local use or to forward where? Would have loved to see a Turn 3 suggestion! An amazing document to be sure. Brilliant


You need to get supply to Horn Island to enable building forts and filling out TOE - which go toward helping defend the base. The IJ can still take it, but you don't want it to be a cheap conquest. The fuel is for shorter ranged ships that may not be able to make it further south as they evacuate the DEI for Eastern Oz.
For example the Dutch DDs are quite short-ranged, designed for the North Sea or the confines of the DEI, not running all over the Pacific.

If Horn Island is not taken by the IJN it is a threat to their passage through the strait, and it allows Allied TFs to sneak into the area between the DEI and Darwin. There are many such choke points on the map and it is likely the Japanese will give them a high priority.



Aksully -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/2/2019 2:18:15 AM)

Makes sense to me now. So did you ever think of doing a turn 3 addition? I really don't know how many hours you devoted to doing this but it is amazing. Thx!



Aksully -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/2/2019 11:27:19 PM)

Thanks for the info BBfanboy. Wasn't quite clear on whether it was going to be used locally or forwarded. Thx!



Aksully -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/3/2019 12:11:55 AM)

As I hit the Borneo section I see it says take No Action on Oil & Refineries. Wouldn't it be beneficial to stop production and try to remove as much as possible to Manila or places south? I'd thought stopping production on this turn would be the way to go? But I defer to the author and more experienced players to explain. Thx!



Aksully -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/3/2019 2:13:16 AM)

Yup another dumb question. For the Tarakan Base Force (Eng) it shows No Action then in green parenthesis is shows (Costs 16 PP). I understand that the Eng's are building Forts. Just not sure what the green 16 PP means? And the same for all the LCU's located at this base.

And the same question for the Oil & Refinery with No Action. Should I cease production on Turn 2 or close it down? Thx!



Kull -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/3/2019 4:25:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

As I hit the Borneo section I see it says take No Action on Oil & Refineries. Wouldn't it be beneficial to stop production and try to remove as much as possible to Manila or places south? I'd thought stopping production on this turn would be the way to go? But I defer to the author and more experienced players to explain. Thx!


You are playing the AI, so there's likely to be a fair amount of time before the "places south" are taken, so grab what you can and don't worry if the enemy reaps some of your harvest. [;)]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

Yup another dumb question. For the Tarakan Base Force (Eng) it shows No Action then in green parenthesis is shows (Costs 16 PP). I understand that the Eng's are building Forts. Just not sure what the green 16 PP means? And the same for all the LCU's located at this base.


Several units have "comments" notations in green, which is the Political Point cost to "buy them out", i.e. into an HQ that allows you to load them onto a ship and skedaddle, if that be your desire. I'm not making judgement calls, just providing the cost info.

quote:

And the same question for the Oil & Refinery with No Action. Should I cease production on Turn 2 or close it down? Thx!


You can certainly shut down certain production centers, but there's enough minutiae in the game as it is, so I didn't explore that in the spreadsheet.



Kull -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/3/2019 5:13:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

Makes sense to me now. So did you ever think of doing a turn 3 addition? I really don't know how many hours you devoted to doing this but it is amazing. Thx!


Turn 2 is THE hardest part of the game. Or at least the most mind-numbingly time consuming. T-3 is cake. ALL the balls are rolling so you only need to worry about newly arrived units (a different tab in the spreadsheet), and those which have a multi-part move (and thus have light blue cells in Column F).

The idea is to just go with the flow for these first few game-time weeks, watch where your units are going, take your hits from the Japs, and learn how everything works. There is a "learning cliff" going on here, so most people abandon their first campaign fairly early, and take the lessons learned into another. And another. Ad infinitum. [:)]



Moltrey -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/3/2019 5:06:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
There is a "learning cliff" going on here, so most people abandon their first campaign fairly early, and take the lessons learned into another. And another. Ad infinitum. [:)]


Jeez Kull, you make us all sound like masochists...

...oh, wait. [sm=innocent0009.gif]



Aksully -> RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE (7/3/2019 8:48:38 PM)

Pirates more likely!



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