RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (Full Version)

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sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 3:21:51 AM)

I guess because I've been over the oob so many times, I've got it in my mind as to where the bridge repair units are located. In case it might help anybody, I posted a list of formations in the River Assault thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2315141&mpage=1&key=�



Karri -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 8:13:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Abnormalmind

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20Playtest%202/AlliesTurn7AutumnFogPlaytest2-1.jpg[/image]



Love the graphics, where can I get them?



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 9:00:17 AM)

Axis turn 8 is finished.  I'm loosing a bunch of tanks all of a sudden.  Gavins paratroopers near Bastogne must have some panzerfausts or something.  Also, no planes yet.  Maybe in turn 9.  The Axis turn 8 AAR is here:      http://www.mediafire.com/?tywzdmymzh3



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 10:03:39 AM)

quote:

Gavins paratroopers near Bastogne must have some panzerfausts or something.


The US paratroopers have Bazookas!

quote:

Also, no planes yet.


The weather doesn't clear until around turn 15.

quote:

Love the graphics, where can I get them?


Me too! I like the arrows, mine always look like a two year old did them.



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 5:40:31 PM)

PhotoScape for the fonts and arrows, plus other macros (and a lot of trial and error)
PhotoScape

Paint.net for image editing.
Paint.net

I'm horrible at graphics and need easy-to-use software to do the work!



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 6:30:03 PM)

Sweet!

[image]local://upfiles/24850/AA6DB8BE3B4E4FD99CEDDF43568D3BC3.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 6:35:49 PM)

Neat! Now I will have arrows everywhere! I'll be unstoppable! Thanks!

[image]local://upfiles/24850/871AD6445336419B9B2DBD0EB552B0F2.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 7:27:10 PM)

Now if we could just get you to do an AAR using your new arrows.



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 8:06:29 PM)

[image]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac265/abnormalmind/Autumn%20Fog%20Playtest%202/1pngAlliesTurn8EndSouthernSector.png[/image]

End of Allies Turn 8

I went with my gut feeling and withdrew to the Luxembourg line, which is more secure. The super river bridges are guarded by fortified AA, which can blow the bridges at any time. The forces circled in red are delaying the Axis advance with good results with all the supporting US artillery. XII Corp artillery is nearing Luxembourg to add to the defensive line.

The river valley makes a nice defensive funnel.

The weather is getting worse.



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 8:10:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Neat! Now I will have arrows everywhere! I'll be unstoppable! Thanks!

[image]local://upfiles/24850/871AD6445336419B9B2DBD0EB552B0F2.jpg[/image]


I've gone through a lot of free photo/graphic software to find something suitable for the AAR maps. I'm glad you are enjoying it!



Karri -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 8:17:28 PM)

I actually ment the graphics in the game! Looks much better than the original ones...



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/23/2009 9:49:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

I actually ment the graphics in the game! Looks much better than the original ones...


Oh, I'm using these mods: mods

Plus the rounded counters mod, not the square counter ones.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/24/2009 5:13:56 AM)

Axis turn 9 is done.  I blew some holes in Patrick's lines but I couldn't move into them, lack of movement points you see.  So I'm pretty sure he's going to plug the holes again.  He's defending Bastogne rather well.  I think I'm going to have to go around it instead.   I'm loosing a boat load of scout cars and SDK's.  And tanks.  But I'm pretty sure his losses are in the trucks category.  I see a lot of truck casualties in the combat reports.  But he's got 1000 times more trucks than I do so he's not hurting for trucks.  Plus he builds trucks faster than I do.  The turn 9 AAR is found at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?minezxkhgze

Here's the minimap moves movie from turns 1 throu 9:


[image]local://upfiles/16287/5C7368A53867425BB446C3091F549DBA.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/24/2009 1:59:26 PM)

Axis turn 10 is finished.  Patrick is defending magnificantly.  I'm loosing a lot of people trying to make some headway.  The weather is going to clear up soon and I don't even have a fuel depot yet.  It's looking grim.  You can find the Axis turn 10 AAR at this url:

http://www.filedropper.com/augustfogiiiturn10

Here's the updated losses chart:


[image]local://upfiles/16287/4ED2443B5EA841EEA6C4C86C02790B26.gif[/image]



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/24/2009 7:54:14 PM)

[img]http://www.xtupload.com/new/image-66B1_4B33C6CC.jpg[/img]



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/25/2009 6:06:20 AM)

If I may have your attention

Larry and I have agreed to restart the scenario with Steve's latest scenario update. So we are going into extra playtest rounds. I'm going to play the Axis this time, and well, I'll do my best. This excellent scenario allows for various options, such as the release of the armies to the north and south. We have not fully explored these options, which changes the way the battlefront unfolds. So as the Axis player, expect to see some different screen shots and all sorts of hell break loose on turn 2.

Enjoy the ride!

Regards,
Patrick



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/25/2009 6:21:55 AM)

Patrick is hitting my lines hard and fast and my units are retreating, rioting, and evaporating all over the place.  I've never seen such a high quality Axis turn 1.  The Butgenbach fuel depot is in danger of being captured and the Robertville depot is next.  I was able to move only ONE unit in my turn and he blew ONE bridge.  Thanks a lot.  Everybody else is in reorg or garrison mode or retreated or rioting or no movement points left.  It's looking like Patrick is going all out this time.  WHAT A COOL GAME!  You can find the Allied turn 1 AAR ( called August Fog IV ) at this url:

http://www.filedropper.com/augustfogivturn1

[image]http://www13.picfront.org/picture/HCLaR3aHM/img/turn1teaser.GIF[/image]



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 1:14:07 AM)

In reality, the stugs and hetzers should not be so far forward. All I did was order them to assault along the roads; ignore losses. This is when I realized that their movement points were only dropping by 1 and the potential movement point feature along muddy roads. I'm sure their momentum will continue with the shock bonus in effect until I hit a tank destroyer or something meaty.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 4:38:27 AM)

Each of the German Infantry divisions has a Fusilier battalion and a Hetzer detachment. These are kind of anty, so I was wondering if you guys playtesting would agree that combining them might be a good idea. I don't think it's stretching history because the Germans formed mobile kampfgruppes within their infantry divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/8CCC8D4A0F154C4F8FF5F38BBC3BDF77.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 4:40:10 AM)

Maybe they could look like this? If you are in agreement with the change, any other suggestions for Icon and Unit Name?

[image]local://upfiles/24850/D9BA11BDC0FA422E9501A1F6EF55B986.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 6:49:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Maybe they could look like this? If you are in agreement with the change, any other suggestions for Icon and Unit Name?

Whatever you decide to do is okay with me...I don't know one from the other and it's over my head and above my pay grade. Hey, Allied turn 2 is finished. Patrick is going great guns. He's making headway all over the place and I can't guard them all so his progress is ensured for the foreseeable future. Bastogne is practically captured already, the Butgenbach and Robertville depots are almost in German hands already and it's looking like he might just make it to the next river to the west before I get any reinforcements that I can use to defend. WHAT A GREAT GAME ! Turn 2's AAR can be found here:

http://www.filedropper.com/augustfogivturn2



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 2:04:04 PM)

Maybe another possibility. The icon is for a motorcycle unit, but it looks a little more unique than the standard PG icon.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/5735BD5BD26346D1884CBBD5D883F548.jpg[/image]



Panama -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 3:13:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Each of the German Infantry divisions has a Fusilier battalion and a Hetzer detachment. These are kind of anty, so I was wondering if you guys playtesting would agree that combining them might be a good idea. I don't think it's stretching history because the Germans formed mobile kampfgruppes within their infantry divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/8CCC8D4A0F154C4F8FF5F38BBC3BDF77.jpg[/image]


Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't these two units have extremely different uses? It would be kind of like combining an AAA battalion with an infantry battalion and calling it good. While the Germans did put anything and everything together for whatever a situation dictated gluing these two units together permanently would not model that flexibility but would defeat it.

Since being on these forums I see alot of stuff thrown out about 'anty' units. It would seem to me it's not the units that are the problem but the people who use them in a manner that would not be seen in the real world. Recce units forging 100km ahead of the parent unit is not something a division commander would want to see. These are the division's eyes. Using a company to occupy a 10km front to block the retreat of an entire division is also stupid. They couldn't do it.

Don't know what the final solution can be but throwing reality and history out the window shouldn't be it and I'm seeing alot of both lying under the windows. Very sad.

Sorry, maybe I got a bit off topic. My apologies. [&o]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 5:00:18 PM)

quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't these two units have extremely different uses?


I agree that it might not be common to see these two units solely combined together for use in a combat situation. Overall it's probably better to split them between the three regiments of the division. But when I looked into the Fusilier units, these were made up of heavy weapons and recon elements of the division. They were separate from the other regiments. In the Bulge the infantry divisions formed 'mobile' detachments from whatever they had that could move faster than the horse and foot elements. So it seems reasonable to combine these two units. You say they have extremely different uses, but you don't explain these uses. This would help in making a decision.

quote:

... 'anty' units. It would seem to me it's not the units that are the problem but the people who use them in a manner that would not be seen in the real world.


Agreed for sure, and I was recently involved in a lengthy e-mail discussion about it. In putting together units for a scenario, all I feel I can do is to limit the number of ant units. I can't dictate what tactics some feel are unreasonable, while others feel they are acceptable. All I can suggest is that players compete against other players that are in agreement with tactics. That said, the reason I call these two units 'anty' isn't because of tactics, it's because of their size on a battlefield dominated by Allied regiments that are 5x their strength. During play you end up taking pains to stack them with other units to avoid the rbc's that will drive them all over the map. It's stupid and a waste of time. Combining these units seems an obvious solution, but that is why I brought it up here, to get your opinions.

quote:

... throwing reality and history out the window ...


That's the last thing I want to do. Of course, it is an unreal and unhistorical scenario [;)].

As for the AAA units, we'll get to them next. [:D]

Thanks!



sapper32 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 5:13:07 PM)

What was to actual role of the Fussilier battalions?? We still have them in the British Army to this day but their titles are only historical they are standard infantry formations and have been for a long time i think origionaly they where formed to assist the Artillery in the field



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 5:30:10 PM)

Fusilier: An historic German term often used to refer to heavy infantry units, original refering to the type of weapon carried of the same name. During WWII used to name infantry formations with some recon abilities that replaced an infantry division's recon battalion mid-war when the Germans reduced the number of standard infantry battalions in their divisions from 9 to 6.



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/26/2009 11:06:26 PM)

The Axis advance is slow, slow, and slower. *sigh*



Abnormalmind -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/27/2009 7:10:24 AM)

[image]http://www.xtupload.com/new/image-7D47_4B370A3C.jpg[/image]

Turn 3 Axis End: Extreme Southern Sector

The Axis unlocked the Allies 7th Army and German 1st Army on turn 1, catching the US forces off guard as a rapid advance ensued. The 21st Panzer is leading the charge. However, looks can be deceiving. The US has three other divisions in the area, and I'm sure they are gearing up to meet the Axis forces head on. Axis forces are clearly outnumbered. If it weren't for the shock, the Germans would be on their heels. The German 347th Infantry Division did not cooperate and went into reorg, which was very unfortunate as it means a turn of shock was wasted.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/27/2009 10:03:00 AM)

Well, turn 3 is finished.  Patrick is still advancing all over the map but I'm seeing more and more German units that are red in health.  Patrick reports he has had two units vaporize in combat.  Bastogne is looking mighty empty these days.  Gavin isn't there yet and it looks like the Germans might capture it.  The Butgenbach depot is practically captured as well.  I may have to call in XXX corps to restore the map.  Turn 3's AAR can be found here:

http://www.filedropper.com/augustfogivturn3

Edit: you convinced me to embed a picture in this post sapper32. Thanks for that says all those keeping up with this thread.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/830A2F0D680542989CEB5895B7FE471E.gif[/image]



sapper32 -> RE: Autumn Fog Playtesters Thread (12/27/2009 10:28:36 AM)

Its not looking good for Bastogne Larry lets hope those engineers can slow them down enough but the path to Bastogne seems wide open with no rivers to slow them down looks to me like you have to stop a Division with a couple of scattred companys[:(]



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