Strategic Bombers (Full Version)

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Razz1 -> Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 2:48:43 AM)

They don't seem to be too effective. They only hit about 50% of the time and get damaged too easily.
They need to be fixed.
for example on three flights they hit twice, once for 1 PP and another for 3 PP When they get damaged on one of the 3 runs the replacement cost is too expensive. So you damage 4 PP but pay 12 or more to replace the aircraft.

The damage only lasts one turn. Perhaps they should extend the damage for 3 turns.

So a SB is a waste of resources and you shouldn't use them.

Lets hear some more feedback



Max 86 -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 3:04:13 AM)

I agree. I never S bomb, value those units too much. If I want to reduce the enemy's PPs I just take their cities![:D]



gwgardner -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 3:52:30 AM)

I use them constantly. The damage does not repair in one turn, but only 1 point per turn. You do 4 pts damage, and the enemy loses 10 PP. As you research higher levels of air power, you get better results. Get about 3 or 4 strat bombers going against Germany, and you can easily cut its PPs by 40-50 a turn.



cpdeyoung -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 10:00:24 AM)

I'm with Gary on this one. He has pounded it into me!

Chuck



micheljq -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 1:48:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I use them constantly. The damage does not repair in one turn, but only 1 point per turn. You do 4 pts damage, and the enemy loses 10 PP. As you research higher levels of air power, you get better results. Get about 3 or 4 strat bombers going against Germany, and you can easily cut its PPs by 40-50 a turn.


Ah thanks for the info I was wondering if Strat bombers were worth it, you convince me. The only thing is that they, the strat bombers cost a lot to repair, but I guess it should be that way.



Mike Parker -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 3:07:21 PM)

Strat bombers also have very long range, and can also be used as naval bombers and scouts.

also consider this... when you hit a city for say 3pp.  He looses 3 + 2 + 1 while it regens... that is 6 pp.. suppose his pp coefficient (WE and stuff) is 150% (not unbelievable for Germany in 1940) your multiplying the apparent damage by that same 150% since those 6 city EP's would have been enhanced by 150% modifier, so you really did 9.



Razz1 -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 3:26:20 PM)

umm.. I will re-check. I have seen the PP recover in a week.
80% of the time I only get 1 PP of damage.



gwgardner -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 3:46:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Razz

umm.. I will re-check. I have seen the PP recover in a week.
80% of the time I only get 1 PP of damage.


level 1 strat bombers seem to get 0-4 hits, very often 0 or 1.

using strat bombers involves some long-range purchasing decisions, research, consistent use, and US participation. I don't think I've ever bought more than one UK strat bomber over the original one. But I've built as many as 5 for the US. Could probably get by with the 1 UK and 3 US strat bombers.




AH4Ever -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 4:45:02 PM)

I'll get right on that Winston.

[sm=00000622.gif]




Flaviusx -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/11/2009 8:07:02 PM)

Strat bombers can be the straw that breaks the German economy's back. Sometime mid war the German is going to be hard pressed to deal with maintainence costs and tech upgrades if he has an army big enough to tackle the Soviets.  And the allies at this stage usually do not have the chops to make a major continental effort anyhow. They need to stretch the Germans somehow, since NA is a sideshow, and bombers help.

A constant 30 or 40 pp shortfall due to bombing damage will bring the German that much earlier to the point where he simply cannot grow the Wehrmacht anymore. And as the German WE picks up, the losses due to air action increase. That is to say, the more efficient the German WE is, the greater your return on bombing it.

It also encourages the German to station fighters in the West, which your Red friend in the East will appreciate.

It's no substitute for a true second front, but the air war matters.



Razz1 -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/12/2009 12:29:41 AM)

I've always used level 3 bombers with Germany and have had bad luck. Very rarely are the hit point above 4, like I said about 20-30% of the time it is higher than 1

Where is this math mathmatical formula that say for every 1 PP in damge they loose 4?

I really don't see the return on investment.



Mike Parker -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/12/2009 1:47:23 AM)

Razz,

What you need to do is set up a game, and do about 100 strat bomber runs at each tech level.. easy to do really I did 1000 runs of tac bombers hitting navy.. its just time consuming.

record what each run of 100 did, in terms of losses you took and PP damage you did.

Remember if n is the amount of PP damage you did, you actually did n + (n-1) + (n-2) + ... + 2 + 1 = n(n+1)/2 PP damage to your opponent spread out over n turns.  you should to make it a fair comparison determine the target countries average PP coefficient during the time to.  Then you can determine how effective strat bombing is.  when German PP coefficient is at 1.5+ and you hit for 4 PP you do 15 effective PP to him.. 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 10 PP x 1.5 = 15 PP in one strike.



Manalishi -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/12/2009 2:25:49 AM)

Mike has the right of it.

I would simplify and merely say that you should not think about the value of PP damage you are doing, but rather the quantity of resource points you are denying to the enemy. The value of the resource point is relative to various modifiers and is represented by PP.

Resource points do not necessarily equal PP. Therefore points of damage do not necessarily equate to PP either.

If you do four damage against a target, then that target will not fully repair for four turns - one point per turn. Thus you have actually inflicted 10 points of damage. It doesnt matter what the PP value of these 10 points of damage are, since this will be determined by the various production modifiers.

One resource point is one resource point. Constant.

In short, do not get caught up in PP values. These are relative and will change. The important thing is damage points.

Hope this helps.


  <M>



Mike Parker -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/12/2009 2:46:58 AM)

That's an interesting way to think of it Manalishi.. I have myself been concerning myself alot with relative PP calculations.. using the RP to PP coefficients and all.. I will have to think on that!



Razz1 -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/12/2009 3:44:07 PM)

Well i have been playing Germany with level 3 bombers.

My ROI ( return on Investment ) is not that good.

It was so so... against UK. USSR has very little Targets.

Of course I will try them as the UK.



Harbinger -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/12/2009 4:03:35 PM)

Razz....could you tell us how exactly you measure "return on investment"?



Flaviusx -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/12/2009 6:59:47 PM)

Razz, this is really for the Western allies. None of the other powers get much out of them. I frankly think you'd be daft to build them as the Sovs.

What on earth are you trying to bomb as a German? Urals factories? Just march over there. You're never going to beat the Red Army by a strategic bombing campaign. As for the allies, they can easily maintain air superiority in the west once you're at war in the east.

Strategic bombing in this game is fine. Your problem is trying to make it work with the wrong power. There are good reasons the Germans took a pass on this in real life.



Razz1 -> RE: Strategic Bombers (12/12/2009 8:10:37 PM)

Remember it's only a game. I tried it with little success as Germany.

We will see what happens once I take Moscow and go after London.



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