RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (Full Version)

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hueglin -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/16/2009 9:35:40 PM)

I agree with Connfire. Let's try and find an amicable way to get what everyone on this forum would like - a pre-drednought/drednought game that's as moddable and as expandable as WTIP AE. I know I have starting switching my mod work over from WPO to AE, because AE offers so much more capability (except for map editing, but that's another story).

In fairness to Tankerace, Graham's initial post did sound like he was directly transferring the WPO data to AE. In fairness to Graham, if Matrix and/or Tankerace feel that there would be that much revenue lost to a WPO conversion to AE by Graham, then wouldn't that be all the more reason for them to actually do the work themselves and create a WPO AE to release for sale.

In closing, I hope that compromise can be achieved, and that this issue does not create a rift in our already fairly small community of dreadnought lovers.

Dave



Connfire -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/16/2009 9:53:49 PM)

quote:

...if Matrix and/or Tankerace feel that there would be that much revenue lost to a WPO conversion to AE by Graham, then wouldn't that be all the more reason for them to actually do the work themselves and create a WPO AE to release for sale.?


Very well said. I sincerely hope that Tankerace and/or Matrix sees fit to reply to that question, as well as others that have been asked today. Hopefully an understanding acceptable to all can be reached.



pmn25 -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/16/2009 10:44:34 PM)

hellfirejet

So your saying you are making a pre WWI game? If so that would be great. As for matrix ressurecting WPO I wouldnt cross my fingers.



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/16/2009 11:27:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pmn25

hellfirejet

So your saying you are making a pre WWI game? If so that would be great. As for matrix ressurecting WPO I wouldnt cross my fingers.


I intend to make a game covering the entire Pre-Dreadnought/Dreadnought era from 1880-1932 Max,every surface ship class,and submarine built by every Nation,will be included in the database.I don't want Aircraft Carriers with hundreds of planes,bombing and Torpedoing the ***** out off everything,I want big ships shelling each other in surface combat action,is that to much to ask,and I will state again nothing is now being used from WAR PLAN ORANGE,I have dropped that name from my mod.It is now called DREADNOUGHTS AT WAR 1880-1932.

Lets face it whats the point of bothering about WAR PLAN ORANGE when even the designer can't be bothered to complete the work he started,before moving on to some other project,leaving everyone who is interested in the Dreadnought era high and dry without a paddle.[:@]

As for the accuracy of the device information I will be using for this mod,for example British 12" Naval Guns,if there are 3 version's off the same size of weapon,but with different calibers,I will be simplifing it to which gun has the longest range & damage effect caused,and using this as standard 12" Gun.There is far too much to do without bogging myself down with needless duplication,I know it's not as historically acurate,but I'm only interested in what size of weapon the individual ships were armed with,and which one was the best for range,accuracy and effect.

I will be using the ADMIRALS EDITION EDITOR,simply because that is the best one available for the purpose of the mod scenario,I don't want to be selfish in anyway,but I will be doing this to make a game that I want to play,as for the art work,I will be doing all that by myself,and that will be freely available to anyone who wants it.[;)]

So far I own 12 Matrix games in just over a year,ranging from Napoleonic - WW2,and I'm not 100% happy with any of them.[:(]



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/17/2009 12:18:02 AM)

Sample device page showing USA 16" Naval gun settings[;)]

[image]local://upfiles/30791/8AB2369C1F054B8E9FDF6CE8AD9D784B.jpg[/image]



Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/17/2009 2:08:25 AM)

Agreed, I do not own the rights to the dreadnought era, and feel free if you wish to make your own Dreadnought mod for AE. That's all fine and dandy.



But,



quote:

I have decided since, there is very little chance of War Plan Orange,being upgraded or patched in the near or even distant future,that I have been left with no alternative, but to MATE WAR PLAN ORANGE WITH WAR IN THE PACIFIC ADMIRALS EDITION,since I own both games and WITP AE has a far better editor and graphics and AI.




quote:



Hey guys this won't happen over night,it will take time but I will make it happen,I will be transfering as much as possible to the ADMIRALS EDITION EDITOR,to get the WAR PLAN ORANGE database working smooth in it's new home,just like the WAR IN THE PACIFIC original was given a face lift,well so will War Plan Orange




quote:

The two programs can become one,the ship and aircraft art work works the same way in both versions,so my plan is to index the device database so everything is better orginised,I also plan to add the German airforce complete with Zeppelins




quote:

think WAR PLAN ORANGE deserves nothing less than a major face lift and overhaul,what do you guys think yes /no?




Do not indicate you are making a new game, in fact you've blatantly stated you are using my work as a springboard for your own project. I don't own the rights to the dreadnought era, but I do own the rights to War Plan Orange, which at the begining of this thread you said you were using. If you want to make your own dreadnought game do so, but use your own code, your own research, your own scenarios, etc. Don't use mine. That's my argument. Only in response to my post have you talked about "A new game," previous it was, and as quoted above, "mating WPO with WitPAE." Something I politely asked you not to do, or only do as a guide for other WPO owners, not just AE owners, to do.



As to supporting the game, my expansion idea was nixed by Matrix. I have not had time to update the game at all, and by update actually means "including new free stuff." I'm all for players making mod and free updates -- hell, that's how I got started. But I didn't take Matrix's WitP scenario and make them free downloads for UV owners, and I made sure that WPO could not play WitP scenarios. All I did was ask you to respect that right.



Would I like to do an update to WPO? Absolutely. But I don't have the time, Matrix has nixed my expansion idea, and the sad world of capitalism means I have to devote my energies to what gives me a paycheck -- which is not a free ware update to WPO.



That's not to say you won't see an AE update to WPO, but just not soon.



As to this "mod" or "game", whatever you want to call it, feel free to develop you own, but at the beginning of this thread you stated you were making a mod to AE using the game I created. The two are not one in the same.



And as to not be bothered to complete my work, I did exactly what I set out to do, create a wargame simulating a post WWI game set in the 1920s. The 1930s was something I wanted to do, nothing I ever promised to do. WPO only covers 1922-1930 in the title, and that's exactly what it does.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Connfire

quote:

...if Matrix and/or Tankerace feel that there would be that much revenue lost to a WPO conversion to AE by Graham, then wouldn't that be all the more reason for them to actually do the work themselves and create a WPO AE to release for sale.?


Very well said. I sincerely hope that Tankerace and/or Matrix sees fit to reply to that question, as well as others that have been asked today. Hopefully an understanding acceptable to all can be reached.


As to this question, for me anyway it isn't about the revenue. How would you feel if someone took something that you worked on for 15 months from scratch, that you happily got published and was truly a pride of acheivement and then just used it for themselves, and insinuated they would do so in a way that violated your copyrights on it and used your material without even bothering to ask first. That's what I'm protective of.

No matter how much revenue is lost, that is immaterial. The fact is that WPO is a copyrighted game and to make a mod that would in effect allow its core files to be used without ownership of the game is illegal, plain and simple. That is my argument.

I hardcore supported WPO its first three years of existence, but the game turned 4 last month. How much longer should I actively devote all of my excess time to the game after it has hit the point where I no longer make a lot of money off of it? I work a regular job, in six months I have a wife, and I'm starting a doctoral degree. I only have so much time. Nevertheless, WPO is my game, the fruits of my labor, and I will protect it as such.

Now, if Graham wants to contact Matrix about doing a licensed conversion under my direction, then I'm all for it. But that's not what I've seen proposed here today.



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/17/2009 7:58:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Agreed, I do not own the rights to the dreadnought era, and feel free if you wish to make your own Dreadnought mod for AE. That's all fine and dandy.



But,



quote:

I have decided since, there is very little chance of War Plan Orange,being upgraded or patched in the near or even distant future,that I have been left with no alternative, but to MATE WAR PLAN ORANGE WITH WAR IN THE PACIFIC ADMIRALS EDITION,since I own both games and WITP AE has a far better editor and graphics and AI.




quote:



Hey guys this won't happen over night,it will take time but I will make it happen,I will be transfering as much as possible to the ADMIRALS EDITION EDITOR,to get the WAR PLAN ORANGE database working smooth in it's new home,just like the WAR IN THE PACIFIC original was given a face lift,well so will War Plan Orange




quote:

The two programs can become one,the ship and aircraft art work works the same way in both versions,so my plan is to index the device database so everything is better orginised,I also plan to add the German airforce complete with Zeppelins




quote:

think WAR PLAN ORANGE deserves nothing less than a major face lift and overhaul,what do you guys think yes /no?




Do not indicate you are making a new game, in fact you've blatantly stated you are using my work as a springboard for your own project. I don't own the rights to the dreadnought era, but I do own the rights to War Plan Orange, which at the begining of this thread you said you were using. If you want to make your own dreadnought game do so, but use your own code, your own research, your own scenarios, etc. Don't use mine. That's my argument. Only in response to my post have you talked about "A new game," previous it was, and as quoted above, "mating WPO with WitPAE." Something I politely asked you not to do, or only do as a guide for other WPO owners, not just AE owners, to do.



As to supporting the game, my expansion idea was nixed by Matrix. I have not had time to update the game at all, and by update actually means "including new free stuff." I'm all for players making mod and free updates -- hell, that's how I got started. But I didn't take Matrix's WitP scenario and make them free downloads for UV owners, and I made sure that WPO could not play WitP scenarios. All I did was ask you to respect that right.



Would I like to do an update to WPO? Absolutely. But I don't have the time, Matrix has nixed my expansion idea, and the sad world of capitalism means I have to devote my energies to what gives me a paycheck -- which is not a free ware update to WPO.



That's not to say you won't see an AE update to WPO, but just not soon.



As to this "mod" or "game", whatever you want to call it, feel free to develop you own, but at the beginning of this thread you stated you were making a mod to AE using the game I created. The two are not one in the same.



And as to not be bothered to complete my work, I did exactly what I set out to do, create a wargame simulating a post WWI game set in the 1920s. The 1930s was something I wanted to do, nothing I ever promised to do. WPO only covers 1922-1930 in the title, and that's exactly what it does.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Connfire

quote:

...if Matrix and/or Tankerace feel that there would be that much revenue lost to a WPO conversion to AE by Graham, then wouldn't that be all the more reason for them to actually do the work themselves and create a WPO AE to release for sale.?


Very well said. I sincerely hope that Tankerace and/or Matrix sees fit to reply to that question, as well as others that have been asked today. Hopefully an understanding acceptable to all can be reached.


As to this question, for me anyway it isn't about the revenue. How would you feel if someone took something that you worked on for 15 months from scratch, that you happily got published and was truly a pride of acheivement and then just used it for themselves, and insinuated they would do so in a way that violated your copyrights on it and used your material without even bothering to ask first. That's what I'm protective of.

No matter how much revenue is lost, that is immaterial. The fact is that WPO is a copyrighted game and to make a mod that would in effect allow its core files to be used without ownership of the game is illegal, plain and simple. That is my argument.

I hardcore supported WPO its first three years of existence, but the game turned 4 last month. How much longer should I actively devote all of my excess time to the game after it has hit the point where I no longer make a lot of money off of it? I work a regular job, in six months I have a wife, and I'm starting a doctoral degree. I only have so much time. Nevertheless, WPO is my game, the fruits of my labor, and I will protect it as such.

Now, if Graham wants to contact Matrix about doing a licensed conversion under my direction, then I'm all for it. But that's not what I've seen proposed here today.



Tankerace,I'm sorry this is getting out of hand,we all want the same thing really,each and every player of War Plan Orange,we have all seen WITP getting a major face lift and want the same for War Plan Orange.

Can you or Matrix please see if it's possible to do an AE Editor for War Plan Orange,then all this debate would be mute,I just want to create a Pre-Dreadnought /Dreadnought scenario based prior to WW1.[&o][&o]

I'm more than happy to create whatever new art work is needed,just like I have done already for the German,Italian navys.[:)]



Connfire -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/17/2009 3:54:50 PM)

Hey Graham,

You might want to consider submitting a proposal to this link here: http://www.matrixgames.com/corporate/submitting.asp

I know this "generation" of WPO gamers didn't exactly get off on the right foot we would have hoped for with Tankerace, and that is regretable. But hopefully once things cool down he'll get the message that there are still people who love what he created, and hopefully he'll stop by here again under better circumstances.

But even with that, it wasn't 100% negative. He did say -

quote:

Now, if Graham wants to contact Matrix about doing a licensed conversion under my direction, then I'm all for it.


and

quote:

I'm all for players making mod and free updates -- hell, that's how I got started


Heck, this may be a new opportunity for you to use your proven talents, break into the business, and give new life into the WPO concept. Just don't forget us little guys if you become famous! [:)]



Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/17/2009 7:32:17 PM)

First off I don't think we have gotten off on the wrong foot. If you read my posts I didn't say I don't want any mods, new scenarios, what have you. I just said I don't want a free ware WPO admirals edition, which was the current topic of this thread. I even went so far as to say go ahead if you do it as a guide where other WPO players can do the same (never mind that AE will have NONE, repeat, NONE of the 10 months of code work Mike put in to WPO which are necessary), only don't release core files for free. Not only am I justified as an author on that point, but also legal standing. I want to support the game, but I'm not giving up my work while it's still in copyright.

Now, so that my position is fully clear, here is the PM I sent to Graham today after his response to my asking if he wanted to do a licensed WPO to AE conversion. Rather than saying yes, he now idicates he only wants to do a new, mega scenario but wants the AE editor to do it. The fact is the AE editor won't work with WPO because the two programs are different and look for different variables, and significant coding work would need to happen. Remember, AE and WitP are not the same and are massively different, and WPO is based off of WitP. My new question:

quote:

 

The fact is an AE editor won't work in WPO, as the two games are now very different, they started off the same sure, but now use very different scenario type files with different information, just as the program files themselves are very different, simply copying the editor file won't work as the .exe would need to be changed.

What you are asking would, as I stated earlier, require an Admiral's Edition update to WPO, which would need the approval of myself, Matrix, 2by3Games, and the AE team. If you would like to work on such a project that is fine, and I'll get in touch with people and see if we can make it happen, but it would be no easy undertaking but I would provide whatever support I can and assist you in any way possible.

The thing is, you are talking about mating one team's work with another team's work, and both parties have an interest in that.

Rather than ask for an AE update in the PM, your new idea seems to be doing another scenario -- which is absolutely fine, WPO is coded for just that. But if you want the AE changes -- which according to your thread you wanted to do -- you'll have to work under the supervision of Matrix to create a paid expansion that protects both peoples interests.

Now, is that what you are wanting to do, or now are you simply wanting to create a new dreadnought scenario for WPO? (if it is for AE, it is now blocked to prevent any pre 1936 scenario to protect WPO files from being used, not to mention none of the code would work anyway -- it took Mike wood about 10 months of heavy coding to get WPO where it was from WitP, code that AE does NOT have and makes it really implausible for a dreadnought scenario).


I never wanted to stop creating new stuff for WPO, but the fact is both I and the AE team have a vested interest in anything that would merge the two games, and if you took one game to improve the other both parties need to be compensated. It isn't because we're money grubbers (I don't make a lot on WPO anymore), but it's because that's what the law says.

If Graham wants to do a licensed conversion then great, I'll start emailing people. But the fact is that's not what I'm thinking he wants, based on his last pms. He wants his own scenario which, while he could put in said conversion, I would mandate that except for typos and bugs fixed the core of WPO (maybe not ship graphics) would stay the same -- which already conflicts with his device idea (though he could do his own scenario however he wanted).



hueglin -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/18/2009 2:09:45 AM)

Tankerace,

I want to commend you on your reasoned and calm response to this whole situation. I'm sorry if my comment sounded disrespectful toward your copyright and intellectual property.

You mention the following in one of your responses:
-- it took Mike wood about 10 months of heavy coding to get WPO where it was from WitP, code that AE does NOT have and makes it really implausible for a dreadnought scenario).

I assume you are referring to code changes that affected the surface combat model. I have been reading discussions on the WITP AE forum about trying to improve the surface combat model, which even WITP players seem to feel is not accurate enough. You probably are not the guy that has the answer to this question but, if the surface model in WITP AE is so out of wack, why did they not have Mike Wood make the same changes to the WITP AE code that he made to the WPO code?

Thanks again for supplyingus with a great game.

Dave



Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/18/2009 6:14:17 AM)

No disrespect taken at all, hell I probably want to see WPO get a facelift just as much as you guys. Which is why if Graham wants to do the conversion the legal way, barring a few stipulations I'm sold on the idea.

As to Mike Wood I am not sure why. I know that in the coding process for Carrier Force he did interchange some ideas that he did for AE, but my guess is that WPO's in unsuitable. The reason being is much of the code for WPO was made to better reflect ships using spotters or spotting aircraft, having poor rangefinders (think Jutland or HMS Hood fighting the Bismarck), and literrally firing thousands of shells for only a few hits. With the exception of WWI-era British warships, most navies' ships in WW2 used excellent rangefinders that acquired targets much easier, and then there is the reliance on radar, and improved director controlling, something that WPO tries to show that while many of the guns were director controlled, they were still highly inaccurate, moreso than in WW2. The USS Washington of 1926, had she been completed, would have fired more rounds to less effect than the Washington of 1942. Copying over WPO's combat model would have been just as ahistoric as the current model.

That would be my arguement. Certainly some things could have been used, but for the most part WPO's combat model would simply not fit AE. Kind of like replacing a flat tire on your car with a monster truck tire -- sure it's a working tire, but it still doesn't fit. And that's a horrible analogy, but eh.

I was also referring to similar "antiquating" of the air model -- to reflect biplanes that can't hit anything but a stationary ship (think Ostfriesland), plus AI changes, menu changes, Q-ships, Torpedo Boats, and all that other fun stuff. If you imported WPO into that, you would have dreadnought era ships fighting like radar controlled super-battleships. How do I know? That's what they did in the Plan Orange mod before Matrix backed the projected and let Mike Wood work his magic.



Connfire -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/18/2009 1:40:28 PM)

That does make a lot of sense, and adds further to my appreciation of the research and work that went into making WPO the great game that, even without a major update in some time, a number of us are still playing.

I know you put your heart and soul into this game, Tankerace, and met no disrespect. Like I and others said, the direction this thread went earlier was regrettable, but at the very least it seems like many of us are understanding each other now.

And at most - well, we'll keep our fingers crossed and see how things develop.



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/18/2009 2:26:19 PM)

It's a great pity that WAR PLAN ORANGE will not be updated in the near future,be that short or long term,because it is a superb game.But I still want to use the Admirals Edition Editor to create my Pre-Dreadnought era scenario,as it is far superior to what,I can do with WITP EDITOR X,so it would appear the best option for me would be to,delete all devices,planes,ship classes,ships from WITP AE and input all relevent info relating to WW1 devices etc,all from scratch I may add,I'm not using anyone elses art or data. It will take along time to do this,but I have all the necessary reference books at my disposal,so I will just have to get on with it,my old ship's are about to time travel[8D]




hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/18/2009 2:59:51 PM)

By the way I have uninstalled WAR PLAN ORANGE from my system,it frees up 1.5 gb of space,not that I'm short of space,it's just if it does get an face lift in the future then I will reinstall it but not untill then,tata the noo[:(]



hueglin -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/18/2009 9:31:40 PM)

Hi Tankerace,

Thanks for the reply. I am interested in converting the mod I was working on (War in the West 1914) from WPO to AE, simply because there are more slots in the device, ship, etc. files. Given that I can't go in and change the code as was done for WPO, do you think that it would be possible to achieve a similar effect by giving a proportional reduction in accuracy and range (reperesenting range of effective engagement rather than just range of possible hits)?

At this point I'm not too concerned with the air model.

If I have the time, I would really like to make parallel mods (one of each game), but like you I am limited by commitments to other areas of my life.


Dave



Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/18/2009 11:11:02 PM)

Graham -- sorry to hear you uninstalled the game, but that's your choice -- if the facelift is that important to you I offered a deal for you to get it done. That's your choice, so all I can say is best of luck in your endeavors.

Dave -- you can compensate a bit in the device editor, but the problem with that is that you'll get whacked out device values -- for instance if you make torpedoes "less accurate" in the game it will show they have low, ahistoric speeds. It's a tradeoff as to what you want to do, funky values or correct data.

You can get some of the effect of the code, but only a fraction of it.



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/19/2009 2:48:06 PM)

Ok here is what is going to happen,WPO AE is dead[:(]

But I will make my own scenario,using WITP X for War Plan Orange WW1,for all WPO gamers to use if they so wish,all with updated art work I may add.[;)]

Plus I will do the same version but using the WITP AE Editor,for my own personal use only.[8D]

I think part of the problem with WPO and other Matrix niche games in not geting updated, is the fact you get all updates done for free,and they ain't gonna do that if they only sell 2 or 3 hundred copies,it all boils down to finance in the end,money makes the world go round,well why don't Matrix charge for these upgrades,say 10% of the value of the product in the first place.That way it might make the designers improve and expand on there games,and not let them wither and die.[:)]



tex -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/19/2009 6:07:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet

it all boils down to finance in the end,money makes the world go round,


You got that right Graham!

Am I the only one who feels insulted in that for ages we have been asking for at the very least some information about future plans for this game, only to be totally ignored, but when they feel their bank account threatened we suddenly have all the attention in the world?

I own four Matrix games (which are not cheap, as you all know), but I seem to have lost any desire to add a fifth title to my collection. [:-]



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/19/2009 6:40:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tex


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet

it all boils down to finance in the end,money makes the world go round,


You got that right Graham!

Am I the only one who feels insulted in that for ages we have been asking for at the very least some information about future plans for this game, only to be totally ignored, but when they feel their bank account threatened we suddenly have all the attention in the world?

I own four Matrix games (which are not cheap, as you all know), but I seem to have lost any desire to add a fifth title to my collection. [:-]


Well I unfortuately have 12 Matrix titles all within 1 year,I'm going to see an shrink to get my head looked at,Tankerace say's that Matrix supports WPO,yes and pigs really do fly,when was the last time anyone from Matrix last made any comments on this forum ?to put it mildly they are extracting the urine from us,and I'm sick of it[:@]



Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/19/2009 7:27:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet

quote:

ORIGINAL: tex


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet

it all boils down to finance in the end,money makes the world go round,


You got that right Graham!

Am I the only one who feels insulted in that for ages we have been asking for at the very least some information about future plans for this game, only to be totally ignored, but when they feel their bank account threatened we suddenly have all the attention in the world?

I own four Matrix games (which are not cheap, as you all know), but I seem to have lost any desire to add a fifth title to my collection. [:-]


Well I unfortuately have 12 Matrix titles all within 1 year,I'm going to see an shrink to get my head looked at,Tankerace say's that Matrix supports WPO,yes and pigs really do fly,when was the last time anyone from Matrix last made any comments on this forum ?to put it mildly they are extracting the urine from us,and I'm sick of it[:@]



I've asked this question but you nor anyone else has answered it, so I will ask again. I hardcore supported WPO for its first three years of existence -- new patches, new updates, new units, scenario and AI tweaks, etc.

The game is now four years old. How much longer should I keep adding free stuff to the game? six years? eight? ten? Most "big name" companies stop after a year.

How much longer should I keep adding new content -- not fixes, because the game works as I origininally intended it in 2005 (keep in mind in two weeks it will be 2010!)? You guys claim that WPO has a lack of support but yet haven't stepped back and realized that this game is old! That doesn't mean it isn't fun, but the game came out four years ago.

As to finances and I come rushing in, I already explained it isn't about the money -- I don't even make that much from WPO these days. It's about legal issues and copyright infringement. I gave Graham a way to mate the two games, I offered to support him, I even offered him a way to make a few bucks into the bargain. He said no. That's not my fault or my problem then. If one of you other enterprising forum members wants to work on a conversion shoot me an email and we'll start the ball rolling today.

But the sad thing is I have a life too, and I'm doing other things, and while I would love to expand WPO I don't have the time.

So I ask the question again -- after four years, how long should I keep adding free stuff to the game? Five? Seven? Ten? Should WPO Patch 1.9x be released in 2014 to keep pace with AE II or something?

If you -- any of you, want to see a WPO AE happen that bad then I'll make you the same deal I did for Graham who turned it down. Get in touch with me if you're serious, then we'll clear it with Matrix, 2by3, me, and AE, and then you can work to your hearts content adding whatever new content you want under my supervision (i.e. you still have to clear things through me, which for the most part I'll rubber stamp if its a good idea). We'll even see if we can't get you some royalties for the effort.

So as I see it, the ball is in your guys' court now. This is how a lot of expansions happen -- avid gamers and forum members working on the project. Hell, it's how AE started. Now is your guys' chance. I've given you the option, what do you say?

I'm sorry if you feel WPO is unsupported, but seriously guys it has been four years. How much longer should I add free stuff -- we aren't even talking bugfixes here. You guys simply want the game updated to AE standards. If anything, following AE's progress, WPO:AE would be a new, standalone game not a patch or an expansion.



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/19/2009 7:52:26 PM)

quote:

I think part of the problem with WPO and other Matrix niche games in not geting updated, is the fact you get all updates done for free,and they ain't gonna do that if they only sell 2 or 3 hundred copies,it all boils down to finance in the end,money makes the world go round,well why don't Matrix charge for these upgrades,say 10% of the value of the product in the first place.That way it might make the designers improve and expand on there games,and not let them wither and die.


I think Matrix should charge for upgrades,not bug fixes but game enhancements ?I think 10% is a fair estimate,I know of no other place where you get free updates,this is a stupid Idea,as for me making it a business,no thanks I already have a successful Plumbing & Heating business.But what I do offer is to do all art work,for Ships & Aircraft[8D]

Justin, I like alot of others here are glad you are even showing an interest in what us gamers would like,why not do a remake like WITP AE it is after all a new standalone game?



Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/19/2009 8:12:12 PM)

The truth is I want to do one, I really, really, really, (did I mention really?) do. But for the next six months I'm writing a master's thesis. Then I'm getting married. Then I might be moving to start a doctoral program.

If I could start such a project, it would be until August before I could. Not finish, but actually start. Then assume that it took the same timeline as the original game to make, you wouldn't see it until November of 2011. Now factor in graduate school is more time consuming and that timeline will be even longer.

I could do one, but it would have to be in the future. For the next seven months I just simply will not have the time. That's not economics or me not caring about you guys, that's just the simple realities of life. And assuming that Matrix, 2by3, and the AE team greenlit the project. And such a thing would have to be a new, standalone game because the AE guys would need to be compensated, and since WitP owners had to buy a whole new game, it isn't fair if such a thing came just in expansion form for WPO owners.

I have never ruled out an AE update, far from it. But I'll be the first to admit that I don't have the time to do it now,  or at least for seven months. After that, well, if everyone else approves I don't mind giving it a shot.



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/19/2009 8:33:52 PM)

Fantastic I would really love to see an WAR PLAN ORANGE AE,but maybe covering an earlier period a what if WW1 for example,I know you are very busy,and other life commitments keep getting in the way,but even if there was a slight chance of it happening,sometime in the future,and it's not a deffinate no! I'm sure I speak for all the gamers here even waiting another 2 or 3 years,what the hell I'm sure it would be more than worth the wait.[;)]



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/19/2009 8:35:55 PM)

Possible new German WW1 Fighter,AEG-C1V how's that for a starter[8D]

[image]local://upfiles/30791/1FCA53783E304A9481A0D160B6D5AC82.jpg[/image]



comte -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/20/2009 9:37:38 AM)

Well for what its worth Tankerace I think the work you did on this game was outstanding thanks for making it and I am enjoying it greatly. Even if it never sees another patch due to work and life I'm happy with what I got and if you find the time to make another patch great if not no worries [:)]



Andy Mac -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/20/2009 8:39:36 PM)

I can only say given the amount of time AE took to do what you are asking Tankerace to do is a huge undertaking and it sounds like he is willing but just not now as he has some RL stuff to take care of !!!.

I am no coder but the games are very very different (p.s. I own and played WPO extensively as well). I very much doubt it will work as you wanted with the AE exe even in your private mod - so many things have changed



pmn25 -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/21/2009 5:58:07 PM)

Ok im a little confused, hellfirejet I thought you wanted to make a dreadnought game using the WITP AE engine. Tankerace said he would oversee the project as long as all the partys that own the rights allow you to do this, Im sure they would even have some of their guys help you out since you stated yourself you didnt know anything about coding. The thing that slowed WPO 1.3 was the artwork, from what I remeber reading. However you seem to excel in the artwork deparment. The thing I dont understand is why would you turn down an offer, I mean it is what you wanted right?



hellfirejet -> RE: War Plan Orange Admirals Edition (12/22/2009 4:37:27 PM)

pmn25,I do want to make WW1 Dreadnoughts using the Admirals Edition Editor,but as it stands it needs a great deal of recoding to make it all work,while WAR PLAN ORANGE & WAR IN THE PACIFIC used to be completely compatible,somewhere along the line,instead of the programmers wanting to keep it that way,they decided in there wisdom it was better that WW2 & WW1 should be kept seperate Pre-Dreadnoughts,Armoured cruiser's etc should be blocked,as far as I understand it Tankerace, did not want War Plan Orange scenario's being used in WITP,he wanted it so that you must have a copy of WAR PLAN ORANGE.Legal copy right and all that political stuff.I don't see why they could not just agree to make it all compatible,so that everybody could create scenario's dating from 1880-1950.



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