RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (Full Version)

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Puhis -> RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (12/17/2009 8:51:32 PM)

This game cannot ever be "historical", what ever that means.

For example in a day one, every allied player knows japanese long range torpedo bombers, zero perfomance, IJN night fighting skills and where japanese are going to land. Every japanese player knows allied weak spots, coming war of attrition, deadly late war allied subs and B-29s and so on.

So I think it's fair enough that player don't have that freedom of choice in first turn. If somebody doesn't like it, there is always alternative scenario. [:)]



jazman -> RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (12/18/2009 12:36:54 AM)

Can we roll the game start date back to Dec 5? No sane American would stuff of bunch of battleships in PH, without any CAP.



bradfordkay -> RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (12/18/2009 4:34:19 AM)

There's plenty of fighters on Oahu to provide CAP, though maybe not enough to fight off the KB. But no one knew that at the time.

The problem is that our leaders there were so foolish as to have absolutely none up on Dec 7, not did they provide for any search aircraft to be up. Considering the 'war warning' had been floating for a week, I have always considered this to be the most serious dereliction of duty. Failure to provide the best protection they could was unforgivable. 



Mike Scholl -> RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (12/18/2009 7:20:36 AM)

I played a start with a friend no surprise/non historic once.  We had to re-start.  Enough cap rose automatically (I hadn't changed any original settings) due to the radar warning to put a noticeable dent in KB's air strength, and more importantly prevent a substantial amount of the damage to the Navy and the airfields.  I lost a lot of planes, but there's not much comparison between lossing half-trained P-26's and veteran Vals and Kates.

We were trying to simulate the gradual loss of surprise caused by the time zones and distance of the opening attacks without the "all or nothing" limits of the game's choices.



xj900uk -> RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (12/18/2009 1:30:49 PM)

Well, hate to burst your bubble, but the IJN had no guarantee of surprise when they set out to attack PH.  Nagumo half-expected to fight his way in and loose several of his precious carriers in the process,w hich is why his enthusiasm for the plan was less than 100% gushing.  Naturally cautious at hte best of times,  he took the opportunity to hightail it back to Japan without finishing the job properly the moment surprise was blown (a move that has been debated endlessly eveer since, both in print and on these Forums)



bklooste -> RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (12/19/2009 10:16:37 AM)

Obviously since the Nells and Betties cant sink them consistently the  AFB devs :-) have  made them into actual flying matchboxes instead of effective aircraft :-P



bklooste -> RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (12/19/2009 10:17:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

Well, hate to burst your bubble, but the IJN had no guarantee of surprise when they set out to attack PH.  Nagumo half-expected to fight his way in and loose several of his precious carriers in the process,w hich is why his enthusiasm for the plan was less than 100% gushing.  Naturally cautious at hte best of times,  he took the opportunity to hightail it back to Japan without finishing the job properly the moment surprise was blown (a move that has been debated endlessly eveer since, both in print and on these Forums)


House rule should be no 2nd day attack without replacing Nagumo by a more aggresive comander.



xj900uk -> RE: Why the 7th instead of the 10th for the PoW and Repulse? (12/21/2009 1:55:36 PM)

You mean like that chap Yamagushi (sorry if I've spelt it incorrectly) who commanded CarDiv 2 from the Hiryu?  He was supposed to be the second best tactical aware Carrier admiral in japan (after Nagumo) with Ozawa third.  Both he and Ozawa were supposed to be a lot more agressive than Nagumo



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