Supply Consumption...be warned (Full Version)

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vaned74 -> Supply Consumption...be warned (12/16/2009 10:29:18 PM)

I have been playing as Japan and watching my supply stocks drop at a far faster rate than pre-patch.

Thus, I set up a test to see if I could determine what was happening. In my scenario I used the editor to change control of all major bases in the DEI, Malaya, PI, China that Japan captured and set them as fully repaired as of Dec 7th. I then placed convoy ships were appropriate to implement a fully functioning convoy system from day one. In other words, I am moving fuel and resources and oil as I normally would.

I then turned off repairs for all Japanese industry and proceeded to play one month of game time.

With no repairs ongoing, no land combat, no air operations, and even no land movement it appears that supply stocks drop by 10,000 tons per day for Japan.

Japan starts the Dec 7th scenarios with about 3,500,000 tons of supply either on ships or on bases.

In other words, if this continues, in a mere 12 months, Japan will be completely w/o supply and this assumes no combat, every resource site captured fully functioning, and no industry expansion (when the game requires about at least 4,500,0000 tons in the war to just reach historical production levels of engines and planes).

The best I can determine is that the supply movement model is moving supplies too frequently and causing considerable wastage. I have not been able to pin down what exactly is going on.

Just an FYI.

I think something may have gone awry in the changes in the supply movement in the last patch.



gravyhair -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/16/2009 10:43:33 PM)

I knew something felt different. In my long-running PBEM we have reached JUN42 and I see the same ...



Canoerebel -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/16/2009 10:47:17 PM)

Yikes.



wdolson -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/16/2009 10:48:59 PM)

There was a supply/fuel/oil/resources movement issue that was just discovered.  It has been fixed and will be released with the next patch/hotfix. 

Bill



vaned74 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/16/2009 11:01:25 PM)

Thanks Bill!

Can you give me any idea what the issue was?  I will retain my test setup file for when the next hotfix comes out and rerun it to see what happens.



Andrew Brown -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/16/2009 11:25:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vaned74

Thanks Bill!

Can you give me any idea what the issue was?  I will retain my test setup file for when the next hotfix comes out and rerun it to see what happens.



Yes that would be very useful. Japan should not be losing that many supplies if there is no combat going on.

Andrew



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/16/2009 11:50:58 PM)

Vaned;

I suspect you did this but was base fortification, port, airfield construction turned off?

Also was about replacements for ground units?



vaned74 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 12:10:12 AM)

All construction turned off.  Replacements were off.  As a rule of thumb I have these set as the default on the game startup screens so I don't forget and have to go turn off every base one at a time (painful, at least in WitP, haven't looked to see if their is a set all feature in AE yet).




vaned74 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 2:38:33 AM)

So I've done a little more tracking on this issue. It appears that some Japanese bases, especially in the home islands, will draw 999,999 supplies and continue to draw supplies beyond that level OR not draw supplies but continue to produce from their industry with no place for the production to store.

Of course, supplies above 999,999 appear to be wasted.

Note this accrual of 999,999 supplies happens even if the supply requirements arrows are not used.



JuanG -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 3:14:21 AM)

I've gotten around the stacks of 999,999 by using said arrows to set all the major bases on Japan to draw the maximum. This way rather than Tokyo getting everything and everyone else getting the leftovers, Tokyo ends up around 350,000 and the other major bases at around 150,000 to 250,000.

Not an ideal solution, but better than nothing.



scott64 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 3:20:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JuanG

I've gotten around the stacks of 999,999 by using said arrows to set all the major bases on Japan to draw the maximum. This way rather than Tokyo getting everything and everyone else getting the leftovers, Tokyo ends up around 350,000 and the other major bases at around 150,000 to 250,000.

Not an ideal solution, but better than nothing.

I done the same, will wait and see if that will work for the time being or not. [8|]



John Lansford -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 11:46:43 AM)

It's not just the Japanese.  I can't keep supplies at Perth any longer; I had a 20+ ship transport TF unload over 100,000 supply points at that base, and within a week the supply was down to under 20,000, with no replacements or construction taking place.  I'm also seeing San Francisco with large amounts of fuel/supply now when in the past that base stayed around 150k-200k for supply and under 100k for fuel.  It's coming from somewhere, but where?



Hanzberger -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 12:41:03 PM)

Hmmm maybe I will have to wait some more to start this game.....[>:] 




myros -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 12:46:41 PM)

Just as a test I maxed requested for all bases on the US west coast except San Fran ... next turn SF had like 500k and the other bases had a bunch. I then removed all the requests and the turn after all the supplies were back at SF.

I guess to stop SF from being constantly maxed (and wasting supply) you would need to keep other bases requesting more than needed.

The other thing I noticed is that one of the small bases south of SF can sit out of supply for days or weeks even though it has requested more, the supplies just seem to skip that base.



John Lansford -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 2:43:26 PM)

I maxed requested supplies for SF since that was where my transport and cargo TF's loaded up, but IIRC fuel didn't get included with the supply request.  LA is swimming in fuel but used to be low on supplies; SF had plenty of supplies but was low in fuel (relatively).  Now both ports are buried under supply AND fuel!

The issue at Perth is troubling me though.  I have no idea where the supplies are going; the coastal ports around Perth still have their minimal supply levels, so are all those supplies are being wasted in transit to the eastern ports?  If that's what is happening it's pointless to unload at Perth any longer.



Altaris -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 3:49:01 PM)

I sorta wish that supplies were handled via a land convoy system manually controlled by the player, at least for MP games. Not that I'm particularly crazy about having to manage that many more units, but it would be better than a completely invisible system that is hard to grasp, and obviously is going to change quite a bit during patches. Wastage would be easy to see and calculate, since units burn supplies to move anyway, and burn much more the worse the terrain gets. Of course, to do this, the LCU screens would need to be updated to make supply situations more obvious for LCU's, but I think that should be implemented irregardless, as the LCU menus are seriously lacking (at the very least, they should show morale, fatigue, and disruption, preferably a percentage of enabled/disabled units as well)



Canoerebel -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 3:53:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I maxed requested supplies for SF since that was where my transport and cargo TF's loaded up, but IIRC fuel didn't get included with the supply request.  LA is swimming in fuel but used to be low on supplies; SF had plenty of supplies but was low in fuel (relatively).  Now both ports are buried under supply AND fuel!

The issue at Perth is troubling me though.  I have no idea where the supplies are going; the coastal ports around Perth still have their minimal supply levels, so are all those supplies are being wasted in transit to the eastern ports?  If that's what is happening it's pointless to unload at Perth any longer.


Undoubtedly your supplies are moving from Perth to the east coast. Perth remains valuable, though, as it's probably quicker for ships coming from India or Capetown to unlead there and let the computer move the supplies around, as opposed to sending ships that much further to the eastern ports.



Shark7 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 4:06:13 PM)

In the game I have going againt the AI the 50k supply surplus I had at Bangkok for operations in Burma is gone, down to 4k supplies. This is seriously hampering game efforts.



John Lansford -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 4:23:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I maxed requested supplies for SF since that was where my transport and cargo TF's loaded up, but IIRC fuel didn't get included with the supply request.  LA is swimming in fuel but used to be low on supplies; SF had plenty of supplies but was low in fuel (relatively).  Now both ports are buried under supply AND fuel!

The issue at Perth is troubling me though.  I have no idea where the supplies are going; the coastal ports around Perth still have their minimal supply levels, so are all those supplies are being wasted in transit to the eastern ports?  If that's what is happening it's pointless to unload at Perth any longer.


Undoubtedly your supplies are moving from Perth to the east coast. Perth remains valuable, though, as it's probably quicker for ships coming from India or Capetown to unlead there and let the computer move the supplies around, as opposed to sending ships that much further to the eastern ports.



If the wastage in transit is close to 90%, though, then it is worth the extra shipping time to Sydney from Cape Town than it is to unload at Perth. Previously supplies did not move from Perth to the eastern ports, or if they did it was so slowly the drop was minimal. I'm wondering why Darwin isn't being affected, then; I've got over 100k supplies and fuel both there and they aren't dropping at all. Why did Perth drain nearly empty and Darwin isn't?



Treznor -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 4:28:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

It has been fixed and will be released with the next patch/hotfix. 

Bill



Any idea when the patch is coming out?



stuman -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 7:45:29 PM)

After the patch, I had the same thing occur. some bunching up of supplies here and there. But all I have had to do is some tweaking of the supply buttons at certain bases and within a handful of turns I have supply going to where I want it to. I did have to pay attention to all bases between a major hub ( eg bankcock ) and an endpoint ( say Johore ) If I am trying to get maximum supplies to Johore, then you need to be careful that you are not bunching up supplies in intervening bases. It may take a bit of fine tuning, but I seem to be able to direct suppies in that manner. And in the HI then I had to use the button in every city that I wanted to keep at 10,000 or 20,000 supply , but again after just a few turns it all seems to be working.



Venividivici10044 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/17/2009 8:56:03 PM)

I'm still new at the game, so would thank someone profusely [&o]if they could map out an example of a supply line to illustrate this point.

Thanks!


VVV



HansBolter -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/18/2009 11:58:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

There was a supply/fuel/oil/resources movement issue that was just discovered.  It has been fixed and will be released with the next patch/hotfix. 

Bill




Is this the same bug that prevents movement of resources on the rail net in the U.S.?

I pointed this bug out before the release of Patch 2 and was told that the fix for it was going to be included in patch 2.



xj900uk -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/18/2009 1:55:13 PM)

Well I've been moving loads of supply & fuel into Perth (from DEI and also Cape Town) and... a lot just seem to sit there whilst others just vanishes.  Can't believe spoilage is this bad unless the locals are nicking it all from under my nose and selling it on the Black market...
I had thought the internal rail & road network would move it for me, preferably before it got stolen...



Shark7 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/18/2009 2:13:12 PM)

Well after playing about 2 weeks of turns in a game against the AI, I've dropped around 800k of supply (3.7 million down to 2.9 million) in that 14 turn period of time. Before in the same amount of time I might have used 10%-20% that much. It's going somewhere and at this rate the Home islands will be starving in another game month or so.



vaned74 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/18/2009 2:16:33 PM)

Hey Shark - check your bases (Japanese flag button on the top button bar) tab and then sort by supply.  My guess is you'll see that one or two sites in Japan with 999K supplies.  It's going to those places and then disappearing.  If you then use the buttons to push supply away then all you lose is the 'wastage' in supply movement as you fight your quartermaster corps incessant desire to fill up the Imperial Palace with extra rations every few days.  Sort of a game breaker though until fixed.



stuman -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/18/2009 2:25:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vaned74

Hey Shark - check your bases (Japanese flag button on the top button bar) tab and then sort by supply.  My guess is you'll see that one or two sites in Japan with 999K supplies.  It's going to those places and then disappearing.  If you then use the buttons to push supply away then all you lose is the 'wastage' in supply movement as you fight your quartermaster corps incessant desire to fill up the Imperial Palace with extra rations every few days.  Sort of a game breaker though until fixed.



Hardly a game breaker imo. Just use the buttons as you mentioned.



Shark7 -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/18/2009 2:57:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vaned74

Hey Shark - check your bases (Japanese flag button on the top button bar) tab and then sort by supply.  My guess is you'll see that one or two sites in Japan with 999K supplies.  It's going to those places and then disappearing.  If you then use the buttons to push supply away then all you lose is the 'wastage' in supply movement as you fight your quartermaster corps incessant desire to fill up the Imperial Palace with extra rations every few days.  Sort of a game breaker though until fixed.



Nope, I didn't patch until well after it was released and had already seen the supply problem threads, the very turn I applied the patch I adjusted all the bases to get increased supply, overall, each has around 80-120k, with none maxed out.



Marty A -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/18/2009 11:10:39 PM)

Will fixing of the Japanese 20 and 28 division strength when combine be in this hotfix also?



racndoc -> RE: Supply Consumption...be warned (12/19/2009 12:11:33 AM)

Im 4-5 turns post patch and supply is being affected across the map. In Australia all the supply was sucked out of Perth and now Sydney is over 990,000. Im using every AK available at Sydney load supply and prevent spoilage.

In Burma my supply at Myitkina had been consistently over 70,000 pre-patch and then immediately dived to 50,000.

In China, supply had been around 35,000 at Chungking all game. Most other main Chinese cities had been at 2000-5000 supply. Post patch Chungking is below 20,000 supply and most Chinese cities have less than 100 supply....ie no supply.



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