quote:

ORIGINAL: che200

Historiker I don't know what your discussions in the thread were and personally i do not care what they were and with who they where but you have come up with some good ideas and data for this game. Regarding being misunderstood it does happen when players come from different countries/languages/cultures its normal you just have to go the extra mile to explain. Well to cut it shortly i loved your posts as they were very informative if not blunt but fun so it is a pleasure to see you posting again. Regarding work and political views most of us work have family's but we still work and post here in my case i normally check the forum by PDA to keep up to date as I normally work 14-15 hours daily, Mon-Sat So please if you can find the time continue posting here and just remember that diplomacy is the first rule on forums.

quote:

Busy...
Many ideas, too few time to execute them. I decided to start a business to offer trips to Ghana with a friend living there. I'm also working on establishing a new political journal in Germany/Austria/Switzerland and am negotiating with authors...

I also wasn't much around here as it has turned out, I don't fit in here too well. The "discussions" in THE THREAD showed that quite well. I never intended anything bad, but was permanently misunderstood. Whether this was due to language or cultural differences, I don't know. But what I knew that it is obviously better to stay away...
This way, no one is insulted, no one gets angry, no one gets hurt and no one is misunderstood [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Busy...
Many ideas, too few time to execute them. I decided to start a business to offer trips to Ghana with a friend living there. I'm also working on establishing a new political journal in Germany/Austria/Switzerland and am negotiating with authors...

I also wasn't much around here as it has turned out, I don't fit in here too well. The "discussions" in THE THREAD showed that quite well. I never intended anything bad, but was permanently misunderstood. Whether this was due to language or cultural differences, I don't know. But what I knew that it is obviously better to stay away...
This way, no one is insulted, no one gets angry, no one gets hurt and no one is misunderstood [;)]

Don't let the #%*&@$ get you down. Keep posting. I run across what you post for time to time even though I don't usually post a reply. Politics on this side of the "pond" are getting very heated, but I like to debate my views and look for holes in my logic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


Basically if you run into someone on forums that just clashes with your personality, hit the green button. That will solve the problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


Basically if you run into someone on forums that just clashes with your personality, hit the green button. That will solve the problem.

The green button, green ... green ... hold it, I'm color blind! What shade of grey is that? Where is the light grey butten located? Which one of those friggin' grey buttons am I looking for? [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Be very very careful, you don't want to hit the red button by mistake. NEVER hit the red button. [;)]

I have some color problems as well, so I can sort of relate. For instance the little anti-bot code we have to enter to log in, I have a very hard time reading that and getting it right.

quote:

IJN Hoshi, Japan Battlecruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
45,943 t light; 47,989 t standard; 51,171 t normal; 53,716 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(1,185.62 ft / 1,148.29 ft) x 82.02 ft (Bulges 98.43 ft) x (32.81 / 34.25 ft)
(361.38 m / 350.00 m) x 25.00 m (Bulges 30.00 m) x (10.00 / 10.44 m)

Armament:
6 - 18.11" / 460 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,995.22lbs / 1,358.61kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
16 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 33.42lbs / 15.16kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.52lbs / 0.24kg shells, 2,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
24 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 18,531 lbs / 8,406 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 787.40 ft / 240.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.95" / 75 mm 787.40 ft / 240.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 4.92" / 125 mm For and Aft decks

- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 231,614 shp / 172,784 Kw = 34.05 kts
Range 8,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,727 tons

Complement:
1,700 - 2,211

Cost:
£23.912 million / $95.649 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,597 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 11,717 tons, 22.9 %
- Belts: 4,832 tons, 9.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 847 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 2,056 tons, 4.0 %
- Armour Deck: 3,632 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 351 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 6,342 tons, 12.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 23,787 tons, 46.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,227 tons, 10.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.0 %
- Hull below water: 250 tons
- Hull above water: 250 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
64,729 lbs / 29,361 Kg = 21.8 x 18.1 " / 460 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 21.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.96
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.483 / 0.486
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 35.00 %, 37.27 ft / 11.36 m, 23.72 ft / 7.23 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 23.72 ft / 7.23 m, 23.72 ft / 7.23 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 23.72 ft / 7.23 m, 23.72 ft / 7.23 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 23.72 ft / 7.23 m, 23.72 ft / 7.23 m
- Average freeboard: 25.62 ft / 7.81 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.2 %
Waterplane Area: 61,800 Square feet or 5,741 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 237 lbs/sq ft or 1,157 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.20
- Longitudinal: 0.95
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

quote:

ORIGINAL: bklooste

Damn posted the wrong comparison ..was against teh 6*18 which was similar tonnage - wil fix.

Note I posted a design as per orignal 150K ( ie no engine power upgrade) and it does about 30.5, Im sure you can tweak the design to get another know knot or even 34 if you drop armour to 8". I wonder how small you can build a 6 * 18" * 34 knots * with 8-9" belt . Is 30K or 35K possible ?

quote:

IJN No.13 +, Japan Battlecruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
36,541 t light; 38,694 t standard; 41,026 t normal; 42,891 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(894.72 ft / 869.42 ft) x 101.71 ft x (31.17 / 32.26 ft)
(272.71 m / 265.00 m) x 31.00 m x (9.50 / 9.83 m)

Armament:
6 - 18.11" / 460 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,218.00lbs / 1,459.66kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
12 - 5.51" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.63lbs / 40.20kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 33.83lbs / 15.35kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
48 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.52lbs / 0.24kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
24 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 21,073 lbs / 9,559 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 656.17 ft / 200.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: 9.45" / 240 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
16.40 ft / 5.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.20" / 5 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 4.92" / 125 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12.99" / 330 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 228,074 shp / 170,144 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,198 tons

Complement:
1,440 - 1,873

Cost:
£22.757 million / $91.027 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,296 tons, 8.0 %
Armour: 9,592 tons, 23.4 %
- Belts: 3,294 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 306 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 1,129 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 4,530 tons, 11.0 %
- Conning Tower: 333 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 6,245 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,157 tons, 41.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,485 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.6 %
- Hull below water: 250 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,712 lbs / 18,920 Kg = 14.0 x 18.1 " / 460 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 18.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.93
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.97

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.521 / 0.526
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 32.45 ft / 9.89 m, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m
- Average freeboard: 21.82 ft / 6.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.0 %
Waterplane Area: 60,064 Square feet or 5,580 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 215 lbs/sq ft or 1,047 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

quote:

ORIGINAL: bklooste

I kind of enjoyed the last 2 threads so i thought i would start a thread to discuss some alternative scenario designs.

2 ships each week one allied and one Japanese.

The best design will be noted. Bonus points for designs based on real proposals ,cheap / cost effective designs or ones which have springgsharp data ( if they are a bit questionable). The goal is not to rort the system but to build good designs with our 20/20 hind sight . The best option may be not to build it or to build more of an existing class.

Last week we talked about a 6-8K CL design for Japan from the Katori onwards and i think Terminus proposal was best - build no CL.

This week i will cover some Capital ships.


Japan gets 70% allowance from the Washington Naval treaty so has built the Kaga and Tosa.

US:
Rumours are around that Japan has allocated resources for up to 8 Battleships in 37-42. Japan pulled out of the Naval treaty in 35 and unless it joins you can build anything in 38. 4 South Dakotas have just been layed down and the escalator treaty is in effect. What does the US build / do congress is sympathetic to increasing the budget to address the deficient battle line ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Springsharp is a programme that allows you to design warships for simulation purposes.

You can read up on it better than I can explain it, website is here: http://www.springsharp.com/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Simple answer: What they should have done, in that situation, is realise that aircraft would make BBs obsolete, go with the carrier mafia within the IJN and build more CVs instead of those BBs.

With 90,000 tons to spend one could build 3 x 30,000 ton Akagi-level CVs

quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick



If the SoDaks are already laid down, the NC class is in place, I would assume.
A. Begin at least two Montana class in place of two SoDaks to counter any heavy ships in the IJN battle line.
B. Begin and conclude all six Iowas as quickly as possible, since there should still be a couple of ways clear to lay down an Iowa or two.
C. Begin the Baltimore Class heavies as quickly as possible for CV Escort. Upgrade the Clevelands to a Baltimore Class hull to prevent the problems of overweight by the secondary battery. If some Clevelands are already on the ways, drop the #3 6" Turret to allow for more AA (make them a diminutive Baltimore, so to speak!) Either that, or take that 10K ton hull and put six more twin 5"38 twin mounts on it - 24 total guns with 18 on each broadside PLUS the 40mm Bofors ought to make any attacking air strike a little pessimistic.
D. Immediately begin two more Yorktowns to accompany Hornet into the Fleet. Rename the Ranger to the USS White Elephant, and begin a "reconstruction" project like the USN did to the Frigate Constellation. Rebuild the thing in the guise of repairing it. Bring it up to Wasp Standards, at least. Or better, if Wasp is not too far along in the process, build Wasp and (re)build Ranger is concurrent Yorktowns to the other two added to production.
E. Accelerate the planning for the follow up Essex Class.
F. Modify the New Mexico, Tennessee, and Colorado class to all 5"38 secondary battery.
G. Start building a whole #*&( load of destroyers in as many places as possible.
Claim all of this as a job production scheme to improve the Navy and to put people to work at the same time to spend the country's way out of the Depression! If necessary, add ways to the yards at Philadelphia, Mare Island, and Bremerton! Just putting people to work!!

quote:

IJN Zetsubo, Japan Battlecruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
26,249 t light; 27,457 t standard; 29,362 t normal; 30,886 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(848.24 ft / 820.21 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.25 / 27.35 ft)
(258.54 m / 250.00 m) x 25.00 m x (8.00 / 8.34 m)

Armament:
8 - 12.01" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 873.08lbs / 396.02kg shells, 140 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
20 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 33.83lbs / 15.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.52lbs / 0.24kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
24 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 7,686 lbs / 3,486 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.66" / 220 mm 590.55 ft / 180.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 6.30" / 160 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 524.93 ft / 160.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.66" / 220 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 8.66" / 220 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 3.94" / 100 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 190,945 shp / 142,445 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,429 tons

Complement:
1,120 - 1,457

Cost:
£13.530 million / $54.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,558 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 7,703 tons, 26.2 %
- Belts: 2,345 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 376 tons, 1.3 %
- Armament: 1,621 tons, 5.5 %
- Armour Deck: 3,159 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 5,229 tons, 17.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,760 tons, 40.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,113 tons, 10.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,022 lbs / 15,886 Kg = 40.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 17.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.92

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.582 / 0.588
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 31.50 ft / 9.60 m, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
- Average freeboard: 21.19 ft / 6.46 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.9 %
Waterplane Area: 48,381 Square feet or 4,495 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 855 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.16
- Longitudinal: 0.97
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

quote:

IJN Ichizen, Japan Battlecruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
34,167 t light; 36,336 t standard; 38,598 t normal; 40,407 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(930.26 ft / 902.23 ft) x 98.43 ft (Bulges 104.99 ft) x (29.53 / 30.61 ft)
(283.54 m / 275.00 m) x 30.00 m (Bulges 32.00 m) x (9.00 / 9.33 m)

Armament:
8 - 16.14" / 410 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,120.84lbs / 962.00kg shells, 140 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline amidships (forward deck)
2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
20 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 33.83lbs / 15.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.52lbs / 0.24kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
24 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,668 lbs / 8,014 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.66" / 220 mm 557.74 ft / 170.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 6.30" / 160 mm 262.47 ft / 80.00 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
82.02 ft / 25.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 524.93 ft / 160.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.5" / 420 mm 11.8" / 300 mm 16.5" / 420 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -

- Box over machinery & magazines: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 131,987 shp / 98,462 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,070 tons

Complement:
1,376 - 1,789

Cost:
£19.057 million / $76.226 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,059 tons, 7.9 %
Armour: 8,849 tons, 22.9 %
- Belts: 2,384 tons, 6.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 376 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 4,283 tons, 11.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,564 tons, 4.1 %
- Conning Tower: 242 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 3,614 tons, 9.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,646 tons, 48.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,430 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
50,748 lbs / 23,019 Kg = 24.1 x 16.1 " / 410 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 19.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.483 / 0.488
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.59 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 31.50 ft / 9.60 m, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m, 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
- Average freeboard: 21.19 ft / 6.46 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.7 %
Waterplane Area: 58,268 Square feet or 5,413 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 235 lbs/sq ft or 1,149 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.09
- Longitudinal: 0.99
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

quote:

Just hitting 30Kts isn't my idea of a fast CA killer, it can't keep up with CAs or outrun fast BBs. Good call on the armor scheme though, I'd probably redesign the 6 x 18" to have protection against 8" guns and 1000lb bombs if possible.

Revised 6 x18" with Triple mounts instead to save weight.

quote:

IJN Pocket 18" BB, Japan Battlecruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
34,161 t light; 36,078 t standard; 38,332 t normal; 40,135 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(947.72 ft / 918.64 ft) x 104.99 ft x (32.81 / 33.86 ft)
(288.87 m / 280.00 m) x 32.00 m x (10.00 / 10.32 m)

Armament:
6 - 18.11" / 460 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,218.00lbs / 1,459.66kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
20 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 33.83lbs / 15.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.52lbs / 0.24kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
24 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 20,010 lbs / 9,076 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.30" / 160 mm 672.57 ft / 205.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
49.21 ft / 15.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 524.93 ft / 160.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -

- Box over machinery & magazines: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.66" / 220 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 205,207 shp / 153,085 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,058 tons

Complement:
1,369 - 1,780

Cost:
£21.162 million / $84.647 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,089 tons, 8.1 %
Armour: 7,270 tons, 19.0 %
- Belts: 1,878 tons, 4.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 376 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 1,799 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 3,005 tons, 7.8 %
- Conning Tower: 212 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 5,619 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,183 tons, 47.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,171 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,083 lbs / 19,088 Kg = 14.2 x 18.1 " / 460 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 18.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 87 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.90
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.424 / 0.430
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.31 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 74
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 33.33 ft / 10.16 m, 21.23 ft / 6.47 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.23 ft / 6.47 m, 21.23 ft / 6.47 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 21.23 ft / 6.47 m, 21.23 ft / 6.47 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.23 ft / 6.47 m, 21.23 ft / 6.47 m
- Average freeboard: 22.44 ft / 6.84 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178.1 %
Waterplane Area: 60,298 Square feet or 5,602 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 222 lbs/sq ft or 1,082 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iridium

quote:

IJN Pocket 18" BB, Japan Battlecruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
34,161 t light; 36,078 t standard; 38,332 t normal; 40,135 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(947.72 ft / 918.64 ft) x 104.99 ft x (32.81 / 33.86 ft)
(288.87 m / 280.00 m) x 32.00 m x (10.00 / 10.32 m)

Armament:
6 - 18.11" / 460 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,218.00lbs / 1,459.66kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model

quote:

ORIGINAL: bklooste

quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick



If the SoDaks are already laid down, the NC class is in place, I would assume.
A. Begin at least two Montana class in place of two SoDaks to counter any heavy ships in the IJN battle line.
B. Begin and conclude all six Iowas as quickly as possible, since there should still be a couple of ways clear to lay down an Iowa or two.
C. Begin the Baltimore Class heavies as quickly as possible for CV Escort. Upgrade the Clevelands to a Baltimore Class hull to prevent the problems of overweight by the secondary battery. If some Clevelands are already on the ways, drop the #3 6" Turret to allow for more AA (make them a diminutive Baltimore, so to speak!) Either that, or take that 10K ton hull and put six more twin 5"38 twin mounts on it - 24 total guns with 18 on each broadside PLUS the 40mm Bofors ought to make any attacking air strike a little pessimistic.
D. Immediately begin two more Yorktowns to accompany Hornet into the Fleet. Rename the Ranger to the USS White Elephant, and begin a "reconstruction" project like the USN did to the Frigate Constellation. Rebuild the thing in the guise of repairing it. Bring it up to Wasp Standards, at least. Or better, if Wasp is not too far along in the process, build Wasp and (re)build Ranger is concurrent Yorktowns to the other two added to production.
E. Accelerate the planning for the follow up Essex Class.
F. Modify the New Mexico, Tennessee, and Colorado class to all 5"38 secondary battery.
G. Start building a whole #*&( load of destroyers in as many places as possible.
Claim all of this as a job production scheme to improve the Navy and to put people to work at the same time to spend the country's way out of the Depression! If necessary, add ways to the yards at Philadelphia, Mare Island, and Bremerton! Just putting people to work!!

yep like the idea of putting people to work durring the depression it would be an easy argument for congress and give the US some nice hardware to make the early war more interesting. This thread is about the Capital ships so will stay on them.
A.) Sounds ok to build 2 instead. Though in this case i would put the Iowas only 6 months forward. So swap 2 SoDaks for 2 Montanas and 6 month earlier Iowas vs 1 year earlier Iowas and swap 2nd Iowa for a Montana. ??
F) I dont see this justified until we see some air power vs naval or if the ships get a major upgrade ( which is unlikely as we are building Montanas/Iowas ) . We could see this being scheduled starting in mid 41 due to results in Europe.