Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (Full Version)

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Antonin -> Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/27/2009 11:07:46 PM)

Hi all

I saw this game mentioned on another forum and became curious.

I've read some reviews, and it sounds like the kind of game I like, but there aren't enough screenshots to get a feel for what the gameplay is like. Also, some of the screenshots don't show much detail.

I have a game called Defending the Reich, and from the reviews of this game it sounds like the gameplay is similar. In Defending the Reich, if you are playing as the British you plan raids, decide which squadrons will participate, and then launch the raid and watch it unfold. You can spend points on research, and you receive replacements. You also hold back squadrons for rest and refitting.

Is it the same way with this game? I'm not interested in arcade air campaign games where you pilot a plane and shoot down enemy aircraft. I'm also not interested in 3D graphics, but some bombing sound effects are nice.

Does this game model weather? Do squadrons gain experience? How large can your raids be?

If anybody out there has played Defending the Reich, I would appreciate it if you could compare that game to this one.

I know Gary Grigsby has a stellar reputation as a game designer, but this is an expensive game and there appears to be no demo. So I feel the need to ask some very basic questions.

I have a 5-year-old Win XP computer with 1.5 G of memory and a 3400 AMP processor. My graphics card is a GeForce 5500.

Thanks for any replies, and Happy Holidays to you all!



Nicholas Bell -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/28/2009 12:35:25 AM)

Is it the same way with this game? I'm not interested in arcade air campaign games where you pilot a plane and shoot down enemy aircraft. I'm also not interested in 3D graphics, but some bombing sound effects are nice.

Yes. No arcade here [:)] If you want to here the sound effects download them here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2330644&mpage=1&key=�

Does this game model weather?
Yes. Just as in real life it can screw up the best plans. OTOH, sometimes you pray for bad weather to give your crews time to rest and to get more planes operational.

Do squadrons gain experience?
Yes - and it is critical. Plus there is morale and fatigue factors.

How large can your raids be?
Up to you and the number of aircraft & crew available. You need to consider morale and experience of the unit before assigning them to a mission. Poor morale/low experience can make a unit ineffective.

I have a 5-year-old Win XP computer with 1.5 G of memory and a 3400 AMP processor. My graphics card is a GeForce 5500.

You should check the minimum specs on the main game page.

If anybody out there has played Defending the Reich, I would appreciate it if you could compare that game to this one.


I was a playtester for DTR and really enjoy both games-for different reasons. As you know, there are a lot of similarities between the games. You will like ED-BTR if you are looking for more detail and greater depth. The trade-off is a steeper learning curve and increased playing time. In DTR, each turn simulates a week's worth of action. In ED-BTR each "turn" is one day, played out minute by minute if you are defending. Of course if you are the attacker, you spend your time intricately planning up to 200 missions per day covering all aspects of aerial warfare - not just bombing, escorts and sweeps, but recon, night intruder ops, and a lot more detailed ECM/ECCM. Oh yes, as the defender (Britain or Germany depending on which scenario) you also control the intricacies of managing the wartime economy of the nation. Plus in many of the larger BTR scenarios the ground war is also depicted - although you don't have control over them. Just attack or defend the ground units in the hopes of speeding or slowing the Allied advances. On the other end of the spectrum you can watch and track individual pilots rack up missions and score kills, and you can get depressed when they get shot down.

This game will keep you busy for a *long* time - definitely worth the price!



oldspec4 -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/28/2009 11:22:10 AM)

Re: computer specs, I have a 6 year old system w/ Win XP, AMD XP 3000+, 2 gig ram, amd a vanilla 6800 card. The games runs fine.



Howard Mitchell -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/28/2009 11:48:01 AM)

What Nick said.

I'd add that the core of the game is very solid and if you like strategy games it will keep you entertained for hours. On the down side, the interface is a bit clunky, a legacy of the age of the original game, and the manual is frankly dreadful with huge omissions. But you rapidly get use to the quirks of the interface, and this forum is a very good place to get answers to questions.



Dixie -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/28/2009 12:30:57 PM)

It's a similar idea to Defending the Reich (DtR), but a lot more in depth and complicated in many ways.  You've got Bomber Command and all of the offensive Allied Forces on one side and the Luftwaffe and Axis forces on the other.  So the numbers of units you control is far in excess of DtR.  There are more targets, not just cities but industries in those cities.  Raids can be fine tuned with altitude and flight paths playing a role in how effective your raids actually are.
There's no research equivelent like in BtR, the closest thing to that is through playing around with the Axis production to boost arrival of some aircraft.



Jeldren -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/28/2009 6:20:35 PM)


I have a game called Defending the Reich, and from the reviews of this game it sounds like the gameplay is similar. In Defending the Reich, if you are playing as the British you plan raids, decide which squadrons will participate, and then launch the raid and watch it unfold. You can spend points on research, and you receive replacements. You also hold back squadrons for rest and refitting.

Is it the same way with this game? I'm not interested in arcade air campaign games where you pilot a plane and shoot down enemy aircraft. I'm also not interested in 3D graphics, but some bombing sound effects are nice.

It is pretty much the same here. Only the defender is able to research new planes faster in some scenarios. It is possible to get some planes much faster compared to their real appearance in WW2. You are able to change a squadrons aircraft to a different one.

Does this game model weather?

Yes and you will soon learn to hate bad weather if you play the attacker.

Do squadrons gain experience?

Pilots will gain experience.

How large can your raids be?

depends on the aircraft, airforce and type of mission. A single raid can easily contain hundreds of bombers and hundreds of escorts.



Antonin -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/28/2009 11:01:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

It's a similar idea to Defending the Reich (DtR), but a lot more in depth and complicated in many ways.  You've got Bomber Command and all of the offensive Allied Forces on one side and the Luftwaffe and Axis forces on the other.  So the numbers of units you control is far in excess of DtR.  There are more targets, not just cities but industries in those cities.  Raids can be fine tuned with altitude and flight paths playing a role in how effective your raids actually are.


Many thanks to all of you for your comments. The items in Dixie's post that I have put in bold are particularly exciting to me.

I ordered the game last night. The last couple of weeks have been stressful, with work problems and family illnesses, so I think I deserve to do something for myself.

I love the planning aspect of DtR. Picking squadrons for bombing missions [I've only played as the British so far], setting the target, time of departure and flight path, and then watching my little bomber icon crawl across the map. Cringing when bombers are shot down. Breathing a sign of relief when the mission returns.

I expect this game to be all of that and much more. Maybe I'll have it by the end of the week! [:)]

Now, if only someone would develop a serious operational game dealing with the U-boat campaign...



Jakerson -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/29/2009 12:20:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Antonin

Now, if only someone would develop a serious operational game dealing with the U-boat campaign...


I admit that I have waited some U-boat warfare game but I fear that it’s not very good area of making game as if you want it to be historical. Problem is that U-boats operated pretty independently after they hit the sea there would not be much of the game than setting up patrol zones for each individual U-boat and then wait weeks for u-boat come back to port.

HQ ability to contact U-boats or even know their exact location while there were at sea was more or less limited as u-boat warfare relied on stealth there was no point of any type of radio communications other than reporting movements of enemy convoys to other u-boats at sea.

That is probably reason why there are not much operational games that cover only this area.



Antonin -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/29/2009 2:28:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson
Problem is that U-boats operated pretty independently after they hit the sea there would not be much of the game than setting up patrol zones for each individual U-boat and then wait weeks for u-boat come back to port.

HQ ability to contact U-boats or even know their exact location while there were at sea was more or less limited


Not true, my friend. BdU's knowledge of where each boat was operating was rather good, simply because boats were assigned certain areas to patrol, and there were set procedures for reporting contacts, reporting weather, reporting status, etc.

On-land controllers spent a lot of time figuring out where Allied convoys were and directing submarines that had a chance to intercept toward those convoys.

After some early experiments, wolfpacks were actually controlled from headquarters. Packs were assembled, ordered to attack, and ordered to break off attacks by headquarters.

There's an operational U-boat wargame [map and cardboard counters] being developed by Compass Games: Steel Wolves. I wish somebody would develop a computer equivalent.

In the meantime, I look forward to playing this particular game!



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/29/2009 3:20:27 AM)

This is a great game ! welcome to the club Antonin.

RE sub games , the only one on the horizon is silent hunter 5 (v) and if you liked the earlier incarnations 3 (u-boats) 4 (US boats) then 5 (U-boats again) does look good.

forum links herehttp://www.subsim.com/index.php

its also a good forum for all things sub related past and present. I am looking forward very much to SH5 , if i can live longer than 43 it'll be a miracle [:D]

I would also shamelessly plug war in the pacific admirals edition as the best offering from matrix , yes its complex (very very) but when in play by mail its also unbeatable on tension factor. If you have any interest in the pacific WW2 conflict and want the most accurate simulation around (yes there are the odd glitches, but they really dont matter) get it !



Howard Mitchell -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/29/2009 8:57:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Antonin
Now, if only someone would develop a serious operational game dealing with the U-boat campaign...


I've often thought the same, but the only one I have ever seen was SPI's old Wolfpack paper and cardboard counters board game. I'll look up Steel Wolves. It would be a fascinating game with a similar interplay between number, skill, technology as in BtR.



Jakerson -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/29/2009 2:21:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

This is a great game ! welcome to the club Antonin.

RE sub games , the only one on the horizon is silent hunter 5 (v) and if you liked the earlier incarnations 3 (u-boats) 4 (US boats) then 5 (U-boats again) does look good.

forum links herehttp://www.subsim.com/index.php

its also a good forum for all things sub related past and present. I am looking forward very much to SH5 , if i can live longer than 43 it'll be a miracle [:D]

I would also shamelessly plug war in the pacific admirals edition as the best offering from matrix , yes its complex (very very) but when in play by mail its also unbeatable on tension factor. If you have any interest in the pacific WW2 conflict and want the most accurate simulation around (yes there are the odd glitches, but they really dont matter) get it !


I used to spend countless hours playing Silent Hunter III with all full realism settings on and also Dangerous Waters for more modern sub warfare. [:'(]



Antonin -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/30/2009 11:57:25 PM)

Well, just my luck. I received my copy of the game today, which is great, because I had hoped to have it in time for the long weekend.

Unfortunately, the game won't install. When I input the CD # that is printed on the CD, it tells me that is an invalid serial number.

Yes, I have posted a message in tech support.

But I'm very unhappy. I remember a time when installing a computer game used to be a simple process.



Talon_XBMCX -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (12/31/2009 1:27:06 PM)

I had the same problem. Check your order email. It should have the license number there. After I did that I had no problem with the install.

Happy New Year!



Antonin -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (1/2/2010 2:50:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Panman

I had the same problem. Check your order email. It should have the license number there. After I did that I had no problem with the install.

Happy New Year!


The order email didn't have it, but the vendor kindly sent me the correct serial number when I emailed them directly.

So far, I like the game. The more I play it, the more I like it. It has a great level of depth, which I like a lot.

I find it impossible to play with the aircraft icons, though. Too big, too much clutter. I liked the system in DtR, where you had a simplified icon to represent your bombers and the enemy fighters. These icons are too big with more detail than is necessary.

The 'boxes' and flight lines are nice, but in a game this beautiful to look at one would prefer to see aircraft icons on the map.

Also, the game/game clock seems to stutter along, instead of flowing smoothly. Is this normal? I have messages on setting '1', and most visual options turned off.

Sometimes, though, I like to have clouds on. It really increases the immersiveness.

The sound is rather strange. There's an engine sound, then nothing, then some flak, then nothing, then an engine sound. IMHO it would be far better while your mission is unfolding to have a continuous aircraft sound.

For the most part, though, I really like this game.



Reg -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (1/2/2010 3:00:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Antonin

I find it impossible to play with the aircraft icons, though. Too big, too much clutter. I liked the system in DtR, where you had a simplified icon to represent your bombers and the enemy fighters. These icons are too big with more detail than is necessary.


Try the Proportional Airplane Mod available Here.

I used to almost never use the aircraft icons though I find them much more practical with this Mod.




Antonin -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (1/3/2010 12:21:01 AM)

Thank you, Reg, for the link. I installed the mod and it really helps. Things still are just a bit cluttered; I'm wondering if the size of the fighters could be reduced even more.

But thanks to the person who created the mod.

This is a fascinating game. Well worth the money!



Antonin -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (1/3/2010 9:50:30 PM)

I didn't want to create another thread for this, so I'll ask it here.

I'm playing the Nachtjagd I campaign as the Allies. I've read a lot on this forum about the importance of recon, but how do you conduct recon if you are playing a night bombing campaign? The only options for missions are night intruder and night bombing, and the start time button apparently won't allow you to back up the start time to daylight hours.

I've searched the forum for information on recon after night attacks, but have found nothing to answer this question.

In this campaign I've hit Peenemunde very hard, and sent a night intruder over the next night, but the pop up still says the last photo recon was 60 days ago.

I am really enjoying this simulation.



Golden Bear -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (1/8/2010 12:31:39 AM)

I guess that I look at the small campaigns as "trainers."

To "win" the small NB campaign you need to hit cities, not individual targets. Peenemunde is a strategic target not a "terror" target. Attack the German cities and try playing with the timing of raids, direction, etc. Get a feel for what works and what doesn't. See how long you can keep the red dots glowing in a target.

I dont' think you need to worry about recon in the short NB campaign.

Carl



kaybayray -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (1/27/2010 9:32:28 PM)

I agree with Golden Bear. The smaller mini-games are Trainers so you can figure out how to carry out that kind of operation withing the larger scope of the Long Campaigns.

I only played a couple of them and then it was on to the Big Ones. I would strongly recommend you going on to the full on campaigns where all the equipment and all the features of this beauty are available. Plus the time line allows for a learning curve. It is really hard to destroy yourself in 1 turn when you have 700 turns to work with. However it is easy to destroy yourself if you blow it 1 turn out of 7 or 30.

I personally prefer the 1943 start as you have the added challenge of building your Air Force and overall Strategy. Not to knock the 44 start, but I find the added challenge much more immersive.

Later,
KayBay[8D]



Antonin -> RE: Gameplay question from a prospective buyer (1/29/2010 12:33:04 AM)

Thanks for the advice. I'm almost finished with my Nachjagd campaign, so this weekend I will begin one of the full campaigns.

Cheers,

Tony




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