Aircraft rockets

Aircraft rockets (Full Version)

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Sardaukar -> Aircraft rockets (1/7/2010 4:12:03 PM)
I don't think they are in stock game scenarios, but not sure, didn't check the database. Anyway, has anyone tried to see if they work? I mean air-to-ground/sea rockets ala Beaufighter or Typhoon.

Terminus -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/8/2010 3:53:55 PM)
Here's an idea: why don't YOU try it, and find out?

JeffroK -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/9/2010 9:09:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar I don't think they are in stock game scenarios, but not sure, didn't check the database. Anyway, has anyone tried to see if they work? I mean air-to-ground/sea rockets ala Beaufighter or Typhoon. Now I know why it took so long to get AE out, with that sort of attitude to their CUSTOMERS I'm about to do my redo of Scen1 and was adding rockets in that. BUT AndyMacs Mariana scenario is in the right time frame so I might try that.

CJ Martin -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/9/2010 9:19:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Here's an idea: why don't YOU try it, and find out? Wow, that's some kind of answer from a dev team member to what seems to be a legit and politely asked question. I guess nothing has changed since I last checked this board. At least you are consistent. -CJ

JWE -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/9/2010 9:23:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffK Now I know why it took so long to get AE out, with that sort of attitude to their CUSTOMERS I'm about to do my redo of Scen1 and was adding rockets in that. BUT AndyMacs Mariana scenario is in the right time frame so I might try that. Terminus has a point Jeff. There is no way anybody can know everything about what has been done. One knows this - one knows that - one knows something else. What we must rely on is players smiling and dialing and figuiring things out for themselves. That's how we learn about what works and what may not. Even if you try AndyMacs Mariana scenario, there's nothing there that says rockets work or don't. If they work for Andy, they work for all; if they don't work for all, they won't work for Andy. I do believe they work, but depend on feedback from players as to whether this is true or not. Terminus is right on point with this one.

JeffroK -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/9/2010 9:52:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JWE quote: ORIGINAL: JeffK Now I know why it took so long to get AE out, with that sort of attitude to their CUSTOMERS I'm about to do my redo of Scen1 and was adding rockets in that. BUT AndyMacs Mariana scenario is in the right time frame so I might try that. Terminus has a point Jeff. There is no way anybody can know everything about what has been done. One knows this - one knows that - one knows something else. What we must rely on is players smiling and dialing and figuiring things out for themselves. That's how we learn about what works and what may not. Even if you try AndyMacs Mariana scenario, there's nothing there that says rockets work or don't. If they work for Andy, they work for all; if they don't work for all, they won't work for Andy. I do believe they work, but depend on feedback from players as to whether this is true or not. Terminus is right on point with this one. JWE, I would have assumed that the game had been tested to this level, do A-G Rockets work yes or no? Or do we have to test it like Artillery & Subs were tested! Even a "We didnt test it, give it a try" OR "We did test them, go ahead" answer would have been better. I cant see it in the manual, so Sardarkaur's enquiry seems more than reasonable, being told to do it himself is poor customer service to someone who just spent 50-60 Euro? on the game. If T wants to keep his resume as a signature he represents the AE Dev Team, if he removes it he becomes just another poster. I mentioned Andys scenario as its small and and in the right timeframe to do a test by using rocket equipped aircraft.

Nemo121 -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/9/2010 9:55:19 PM)
So is the official position of the development team that it is useless asking them questions since they didn't test the game enough to know whether certain devices work? Sorry but I'm quite sure the development team tested whether or not rockets work so I think Sardaukar is perfectly entitled to ask a polite question regarding their use in the expectation that one of the development team might answer. Sure he should have asked it in the Air Thread as that's the appropriate place for this and the air team do seem significantly more helpful and responsive than the naval or economic teams.

ny59giants -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/9/2010 10:34:35 PM)
Another case of the frog and the scorpion. [;)]

JWE -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/9/2010 11:26:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nemo121 So is the official position of the development team that it is useless asking them questions since they didn't test the game enough to know whether certain devices work? Sorry but I'm quite sure the development team tested whether or not rockets work so I think Sardaukar is perfectly entitled to ask a polite question regarding their use in the expectation that one of the development team might answer. Sure he should have asked it in the Air Thread as that's the appropriate place for this and the air team do seem significantly more helpful and responsive than the naval or economic teams. It was actually, a quite polite response. Frankly, it's loud mouthed jerks like you that tend to annoy. Please rest assured that you are now green buttoned, and anything further your wish to sasy will be affirmatively ignored. I am requesting Matrix to review your posts, and those of certain others like you, with a view towards removing your juvenile bile from these forums.

Historiker -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 1:25:16 AM)
quote: There is no way anybody can know everything about what has been done. One knows this - one knows that - one knows something else. And that's why people ask. No one forced T to "answer"... If Sardaukar had demanded others to test it... So hello green button for me, too, John [;)] Was nice writing with you!

whippleofd -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 2:56:06 AM)
Dang, if this keeps up pretty darned soon everyone's gonna be ignoring everyone else. :) Whipple

Nemo121 -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 11:31:34 AM)
Well, my issue wasn't with the post's politeness it was with the post's helpfulness. Developers created the game. They know the game better than anyone else. When people have questions it seems reasonable they should ask the developers. It is also reasonable to assume that when players have paid money over to those developers/publishers that there's some sort of contract that they get an answer which is actually informative. That seems, to me, to be business relations 101 level stuff. I would point out that while my post most certainly took issue with the stance you took on responding to this issue it wasn't abusive etc. I think that the fact that you would refer it to the admins and would state so publicly is, effectively, bullying and an attempt to silence the expression of opinions different than your own. Pointing out the lack of responsiveness is factual and not abusive. As such I look forward to being informed whom is dealing with your complaint and being able to discuss the merits and demerits of your complaint with them --- as I'm sure Matrix itself has far better customer relations than your portion of the AE team has. I would be obliged if someone (other than JWE as he has rather petulantly chosen to "green button" me ) could inform me as to whom the complaint has been made to so I can discuss it with them --- as is my right under common law. I also find it intriguing that the very person who has stooped to abusive language describing customers in posts on this very forum would report another for having the temerity to point out their poor conduct in the customer service role. That, to me, is interesting and immature. I might not like what some people have to say but I don't have to green button them or tell them I'm reporting them to "the parents" in order to frighten them into shutting up. I would also like to state that I agree with Historiker. No-one forced Terminus or you to respond. It would have been entirely appropriate for either of you to respond with either: 1. "I don't know but I've asked one of the air team to let you know." or 2. " This isn't the appropriate place to post this. Post it to the air thread and I'm sure someone will answer you." Instead Terminus followed a long history of giving answers which are not very informative and quite attitudinally based ( very poor customer service .... and, yes, I know you're all volunteers but the thing you've volunteered in has been sold for money and with that transaction come certain expectations of level of customer service, responsiveness and conduct ). It is certainly his right to give that answer if he wishes but when players then bemoan the unhelpfulness of that answer that's their right ( and backed by facts ) also - and based in facts. Lastly, I'm sure these "others" you have also reported would be extremely interested in hearing of your complaints against them. Are they going to be publicly informed of being reported or... a) are these allegations being made behind closed doors without the accused being informed of them or being given any right of reply? --- this seems most dubious and against the tenets of common law to me or b) will they be informed of their being reported and allowed to give their view of events? Also, I would be most interested in why I'm being singled out for public mention as being referred to the admins... And just to be clear, I don't think its a big conspiracy, I think its just an example of poor customer relations in action again. I know it can be difficult to deal with customers online etc but, really, it is a shame to see so many threads here which could be easily dealt with by either a constructive answer or being referred to the appropriate thread ( air, naval, land, economic ), instead, being fobbed off with utterly uninformative answers by the development team and often degenerating into conflict between the development team and the questioners who, rightly, feel they aren't being informatively replied to. Developers reporting their own customers to admins for having the temerity to disagree with them is a new low though... So, anyways, I expect to be informed within 24 hours of either the withdrawal of this complaint or of the specific complaint made against me and which of the admins will be dealing with it and what my precise rights of reply will be. Otherwise I will be making my own contact with Matrix to ascertain this information / explore the complaints procedure.

CJ Martin -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 12:15:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JWE quote: ORIGINAL: Nemo121 So is the official position of the development team that it is useless asking them questions since they didn't test the game enough to know whether certain devices work? Sorry but I'm quite sure the development team tested whether or not rockets work so I think Sardaukar is perfectly entitled to ask a polite question regarding their use in the expectation that one of the development team might answer. Sure he should have asked it in the Air Thread as that's the appropriate place for this and the air team do seem significantly more helpful and responsive than the naval or economic teams. It was actually, a quite polite response. Frankly, it's loud mouthed jerks like you that tend to annoy. Please rest assured that you are now green buttoned, and anything further your wish to sasy will be affirmatively ignored. I am requesting Matrix to review your posts, and those of certain others like you, with a view towards removing your juvenile bile from these forums. If that was a polite response, you might as well add me to that ban list. Now we have devs calling people "loud mouth jerks" on the company forum. Nice! But first, who do I contact about getting my money back for AE? What name will I be called for that request, I wonder? This whole AE thing has pretty much finished my support for Matrix products, I'll likely not purchase another one. Someone at Matrix, feel free to review my account, I have been a paying customer for years and this sort of rudeness from your devs is way over the line. -CJ

chesmart -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 12:55:33 PM)
Guys can we all take a break and cool off before evrybody starts green buttoning each other. I think the dev team including terminus( who is extremely straight to the point and blunt) have done extremely good job first with the release of AE and then with the forum feedback on the patches, where till now most of the original problems have been resolved. Till now my experience with AE has been excellent compared to other games which i bought Like HOI3 and Total War(which are not even 5% as detailed) Patches have been coming out in a regular basis, explanations on decisions have been issued by the devs on most of the issues we have asked so i would rate customer care to be excellent. Now if the confrontation continues to escalate the product will suffer and all of us will lose in the process. Our common goal is for the game to improve I think or do we have differant agendas and axes to grind ? We have already lost DON because of this system of confrontation how many other devs shall we lose before all the personal issues are solved ? Does anybody think that we would have had a better product had Matrix or some other company done it with their own staff, personally i think that the system used in AE has been very effective as it got players like us to help improve the WITP for the better. IF people like Don, JWE and Terminus did not in there spare time( which they could have spent with there families and close ones becaue i do not think they did it for the money) decide to join together there knowledge ( which is impressive wht they know about the pacwar, I mean i thought i knew my history down to the details but these people can probably tell me which bolt with which serial number went in which AK) the game would not be what it is today and with the community that there is in these forums. Regarding Sardauker Air to Ground rocket question in my personal testing Mod i have put rockets on the planes, the system I used was the old Witp trick of setting them as guns. I copied the data from RHS and they work I had a F-6f pilot with 85 Exp sink an AK with 1 strike of rockets.

Nemo121 -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 1:08:22 PM)
Che, The really sad thing here is that: a) the more I play AE the more I like the model and the subtleties of its interactions. b) I've actually been called a "fanboy" by another poster here for DEFENDING the AE developers against some ill-founded ( IMO ) contentions. I think that if someone who likes the game and has publicly posted on the forum to defend it when it is wrongly called into question ( but who, equally, will call it into question when necessary... something which isn't abusive or threatening but actually essential to helping progress and hone the game ) is derided as a "loud-mouthed jerk" ( surely a derisive term which meets the criteria of abusive language as set out within the forum rules ) then what hope have we of having any sort of open discourse. Again, disagreeing isn't the same as being abusive and certainly disagreeing and pointing out flaws isn't a breach of forum rules... unless this was the old Talonsoft boards of course which were infamous for banning people for saying honest things the devs/publishers didn't like and ended up with one of the worst customer service reputations in the industry. Che, I fully agree they've done some excellent work here. On the other hand that they've done excellent work doesn't mean that one shouldn't point out areas where they are failing to engage appropriately with customers. As re: rockets and AE... Well, in WiTP I've got rockets in my mod and equipped B25Hs and B25Js and they are regularly hitting barges and smaller combatants with them. On the other hand there is something wrong when the most informative answers in this thread don't come from the two developers in this thread but, instead, come from two customers who are relating it to a previous product with no guarantee that the assumptions from that product bear true in this product. As far as personal things go.... Hell, I don't even know JWE's first name. I don't know him well enough to have any personal axe to grind... It does seem, however, that JWE may have a personal axe to grind against me but that's his business... My ONLY issue in this thread was with the less than helpful and less than professional replies from the developers.

Historiker -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 2:55:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whipple Dang, if this keeps up pretty darned soon everyone's gonna be ignoring everyone else. :) Whipple I just expect him to greenbutton me. I have a huge respect for John... [;)] Edit: And while the game still frightens me in some way, I admire this masterpiece!

chesmart -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 3:26:41 PM)
Nemo Yes I copied the rocket data from your mod mostly. My problem with these dicussions is this I want AE to be developed further and the few bugs and problems solved by the same Dev team that created it. Now From the time of the launch of the game 1 member (DON) has resigned because he got fed up of certain comments passed. Now guys the option is this we either be nice to each other and help each other get this game to the level of detail we want or the rest of the dev team will start leaving 1 by 1 till when none remain. I used to be member on the harpoon3 forums (which was the best modern warfare simulation ever) and thats how the wars started on those forums. Harpoon3 had one ofthe best communites helping developing the game today it is a desert because of all the infighting that happened there and everybody attacking each other, development of the game has slowed down to a snails pace and the game/community is mostly dead IMO. I dont want the same to happen to AE and I think neither do you guys (both sides Devs and us Players) so PLEASE lets all take a step back andd take a deep breath and then we start discussing civily again. In 3 years that I owned WITP I always remembered Terminus giving short and straight answers to questions asked and people have always had wars ongoing with him (I still remember the wars he had with ElCid) so what has changed ?

2ndACR -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 5:33:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar I don't think they are in stock game scenarios, but not sure, didn't check the database. Anyway, has anyone tried to see if they work? I mean air-to-ground/sea rockets ala Beaufighter or Typhoon. I tried, but seeing as how I am a completely idiot where the editor is concerned, I could not get them to work......Wait for one of the "pro" modders to answer. And T's answer was his usual PITA answer. I spent 3 hours jacking with the damn things till I gave up.....but knew if I asked here, I would probably have T pop off like he did and piss me off more.

RyanCrierie -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 5:53:54 PM)
I'm still waiting really, on 02 - PLane Guided Missiles; I've tried testing them extensively; but while they show up for the japanese side; no matter how many of them you put in the device pool, they never, ever show up on the US side; thus preventing aircraft equipped with them from sortieing with the weapons. Nevermind that a japanese destroyer was sunk with a BAT before WWII ended.

JuanG -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 7:21:53 PM)
Yes, rockets do work. Took all of 2 minutes to modify the Coral Sea scenario and give the Wildcats some extra teeth. They even included the devices for you - #083. Set them up as Front facing and they seem to work fine. [image]http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2959/atgrocket.png[/image] Will probably be adding these to my mod...

Dili -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 7:50:27 PM)
I am surprised that some are still surprised by JWE.

Nemo121 -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 8:08:20 PM)
che2000, I respect your point of view and your parallel with Harpoon is well taken. Personally I agree with you that egregious personal assault shouldn't be tolerated but where I might differ ( although I hope not ) is that I don't consider vehemently disagreeing with the developers about in-game decisions or combat modelling to be in any way abusive. I've seen forums where gamers were really rude and unrealistic about what they wanted modelled etc and if what they wanted didn't get in they would moan whilst ignoring the fact they hadn't done enough research to justify its inclusion. On the other hand I've also been on the forums of several well-known companies where the developers/publishers began characterising most posts which disagreed with them as "abusive" and then banning the poster. JWE doesn't like what I say... Fine. He doesn't like that I characterise his and Terminus' responses as being extremely poor from a customer relations point of view. Fine. However to characterise either of those sentiments as "abusive" means that you are characterising the holding of a viewpoint and its expression as being abusive. That's wrong. Gamers can destroy a forum but so can developers/publishers. When a developer creates a situation where players don't bother posting requests for information or findings of error because they anticipate a personally negative backlash then, really, I think the development team needs to look at how it interacts with its customers... If you look at this and other recent threads you can see several people who don't go looking for fights posting that they didn't post x or y question or comment because they felt it wouldn't be appropriately dealt with. That's a very bad sign for the developers and AE as those sorts of opinions don't grow out of nowhere. So, certainly, the developers should have their work recognised - and I and others do. I have defended it in the artillery thread and other threads when I felt the developers got something right... and no developer reported me for being abusive when I defended their design decisions... but when I point out poor customer relations conduct I find myself insulted and reported... Developers can't expect ( and shouldn't want ) a bunch of lapdogs who simply post threads about how good things are and how we'll wait while they fix whatever they want to fix. It is GOOD for the developers and the game itself to have people who argue for action on things, find new bugs and illuminate them. Its also good to have people who call their behaviour to count when they behave poorly ( in much the same way that I have, previously, told forum members that their behaviour towards devs was unreasonable when they behaved inappropriately). And to be clear, I'm no saint myself, just yesterday I got pulled up on over-use of the word idiocy in my AAR to describe a design decision. I strongly disagree with the decision but let my frustration, at the time, lead me to characterise it as "idiocy", which it isn't. One of the air devs pulled me up on that and I apologised and will try not to post when as frustrated with the system in future ( although I will change these setting in my mod when I make it as I still think their design decision was wrong ). Developers should expect to be treated fairly and that means when they don't reach the right standards they should be pulled up on it just as thye should be congratulated when they exceed expectations. Che2000, What has changed with Terminus is that now he gives those answers as a part of the development team to which customers paid their money in relation to a product which he is publicly representing. If I went into a car dealership and reported a problem with my car and was met by a guy I kinda knew from a few years ago who was a right a*s way back when but who now worked there I would expect a far better response than "WHy don't YOU find out what's wrong and come back and tell me Mister." His personality should have little to do with his action while representing his company/development team. If he doesn't want to be helpful he doesn't have to post but if he posts as a member of the development team which developed a commercial product then we have a right to hold that reply to normal commercial standards.... This being AE doesn't grant it an exemption from social and cultural norms as regards business transactions and the behaviour inherent in and following on from same. I have no problem with him not answering if he doesn't know but if someone in a shop answered me like that I'd ask for the manager and initiate a complaint. Just because this is the net doesn't mean we have to give that sort of behaviour a by. On a more pragmatic note.... The AE forum is being mentioned on the net as a place where customer relations have gone sour and as an example of how NOT to deal with the customer. It isn't quite in Talonsoft/Take 2 territory yet but in the long run that sort of reputation doesn't help Matrix or the devs at all. Its simple really, if they don't have anything nice to say why post a nasty, uninformative reply to a customer? It doesn't help the customer, it doesn't help them and it is short-sighted and self-destructive in the long run.

Nemo121 -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 8:11:06 PM)
As to the meat of the question... again from WiTP... Rockets and PGMs work. Treat PGMs as bombs ( just look at how the OHka is treated and you should be fine ) but realise that the experience of the launching bomber is taken to be the experience of the kami/Okha. Rockets.... Just model them as forward firing guns and you should be fine. I have listed most of the common ones in Empires Ablaze. In the absence of any substantive replies from the developers I would suggest using that as a starting point.

2ndACR -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 8:21:35 PM)
And that would be my problem.......never saw they already had one setup.......thank you Juan........how hard was that T or JWE....

JWE -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 8:29:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR And that would be my problem.......never saw they already had one setup.......thank you Juan........how hard was that T or JWE.... Because that wasn't on the plate for dinner. We rely on people doing their own checking on peripheral things like this and bringing it to our attention if it's broke. Just like Terminus said.

2ndACR -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 8:34:23 PM)
Yes, but alot of people ask if someone has tried such and such, so they dont waste time trying. I spent 3 hours on that but messed up because I did not check closer and see a ready made slot for it. Of course I never tried to mod before so easy to miss something.

JWE -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 8:44:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR Yes, but alot of people ask if someone has tried such and such, so they dont waste time trying. I spent 3 hours on that but messed up because I did not check closer and see a ready made slot for it. Of course I never tried to mod before so easy to miss something. But that is exactly what we are looking for. Not this "does it work" crap, but "I tried it and it's not happening". If your question is the second one, you will find lots of people willing and able to help you.

JeffroK -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 9:56:20 PM)
I might be missing something, but if they work so well, why arent they listed as a loadout out for the likely users???? As for the "poor unpaid volunteer" line, is that real or FOW?? Whats this Henderson Field thingy that appears from time to time As Matrix made most of the bucks out of this, its sasd to see they do not allocate a Customer service type to collect queries and distribute the to the relevant team for answer. Thats how a real business would operate.

JWE -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/10/2010 10:37:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffK I might be missing something, but if they work so well, why arent they listed as a loadout out for the likely users???? You are missing a lot. No one ever said they worked at all. The question was "do they work", and Terminus' answer was go and find out. quote: As for the "poor unpaid volunteer" line, is that real or FOW?? Whats this Henderson Field thingy that appears from time to time We work for Henderson Field Designs. We do not work for Matrix or anyone else. Every one of us undertook this project without expectation of compensation of any kind. Period. quote: As Matrix made most of the bucks out of this, its sasd to see they do not allocate a Customer service type to collect queries and distribute the to the relevant team for answer. They do, and they do. But just because people do not wish to either understand or believe the answers, does not mean they are not provided in excruciating detail. quote: Thats how a real business would operate. And that's how a real business does operate. It provides practical solutions for its nominal customer base.

RyanCrierie -> RE: Aircraft rockets (1/11/2010 1:27:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nemo121 Rockets and PGMs work. Treat PGMs as bombs ( just look at how the OHka is treated and you should be fine ) but realise that the experience of the launching bomber is taken to be the experience of the kami/Okha They only work for one side; Japanese. See, what happens is no matter how many of a 02 Plane Guided Missile device you have in your device pool; your squadrons will not "see" it, and thus be capable of using it -- unless you are the japanese player. For the allied side, they remain perpetually greyed out text on plane/squadron data screens and thus unlaunchable; even if you've set the device pool for them to 5,000.

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