Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (Full Version)

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Joe D. -> Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 2:17:16 PM)

From the Free Republic:

"Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his country suffered after invasions during World War II and he will 'stand to the end' to get full compensation, the Jerusalem Post reported ...

"Britain and the Soviet Union invaded Iran on August 26, 1941, to secure oil fields and supply lines for the Soviets. The Post notes the Iranians suffered when food, fuel, and other essentials were given to the invading powers.

"Ahmadinejad reportedly also warned that Iran may demand similar compensation for the first World War."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2425038/posts

Anyone know abt this last claim ?

Was the rationale for the WW II "invasion" to keep Persian oil out of the hands of the Africa Corps?




sprior -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 2:27:44 PM)

It was to open up a warm water supply route to Russia




sol_invictus -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 3:15:27 PM)

I'm sure that Putin is losing sleep trying to figure out how Russia is going to pay reparations to Iran for WWII. When will the world be rid of this clown?




Joe D. -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 3:29:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I'm sure that Putin is losing sleep trying to figure out how Russia is going to pay reparations to Iran for WWII ...


Perhaps a discount on centerfuges?




Joe D. -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 3:34:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

It was to open up a warm water supply route to Russia


Well that's certainly a better route than running ships to Murmansk.

Getting ice free ports goes back to Katherine the Great; instead of an invasion, couldn't they just cut a deal to pay for Persian dock space?




Emobama -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 4:49:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I'm sure that Putin is losing sleep trying to figure out how Russia is going to pay reparations to Iran for WWII. When will the world be rid of this clown?

He can sue the Soviet Union. [:D]




Cap Mandrake -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 5:03:46 PM)

I wish him luck against the Russians, though I don't think his chances are good. If he succeeds he could go after the Greeks for wrecking most of Xerxes' cool ships at Salamis.

Do you realize how much those things would be worth now? Put twenty thousand Revolutionary Guards on those things and he could rule the Persian Gulf.




freeboy -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 5:08:40 PM)

If this is true it certainly is pretty telling, bazair and not a little bit disturbing. I want compensation then because some of my ancestors where oppressed.. no wait, cannot do that becaue some where oppressors! My concern with this type ofdrivel is there is someoneout there who is so skewed in thier perception of the west they will obliously think this is RIGHT.. trust me the major universities in US and Europe have lots of classes which expose a truly non historical re telling of the last 500 years that is just as chilling as this guy!




06 Maestro -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 5:11:51 PM)

No doubt he has a selective memory. Has he forgotten that the Russians would have stayed in Iran indefinitely if not for the significant post war prodding of the U.S.?

Iran should pay the U.S. for its freedom-no, wait, we did not charge for that service.




jwarrenw13 -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 5:15:35 PM)

No, better would be to demand reparations for Alexander's conquest of Persia.




Cap Mandrake -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 5:48:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JW

No, better would be to demand reparations for Alexander's conquest of Persia.


I would say Muhammed owes him big time too. Look at all the Bay Watch episodes he has missed. He would be much happier as a Zoroastrian.




06 Maestro -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 5:59:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: JW

No, better would be to demand reparations for Alexander's conquest of Persia.


I would say Muhammed owes him big time too. Look at all the Bay Watch episodes he has missed. He would be much happier as a Zoroastrian.


You are quite right. What a rip off.




Zakhal -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 6:00:00 PM)

If everyone started to ask for demans based on ancient history the claims would never end. 




jwarrenw13 -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 6:47:45 PM)

Neanderthals would be first in line.




jwilkerson -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 7:21:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I wish him luck against the Russians, though I don't think his chances are good. If he succeeds he could go after the Greeks for wrecking most of Xerxes' cool ships at Salamis.

Do you realize how much those things would be worth now? Put twenty thousand Revolutionary Guards on those things and he could rule the Persian Gulf.


Ah but the Persians were "invading" Greece, so the Greeks sould sue for damage to their citizens and property ashore.

The Chinese could sue the Mongols, the Brits could sue the Italians (Roman invasions) ... wow we will need thousands of new international courts to settle all the resulting law suites from this precedent - everybody will be suing everybody!!!







hgilmer3 -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 7:21:55 PM)

What a bitter little man.




Phatguy -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 7:42:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I'm sure that Putin is losing sleep trying to figure out how Russia is going to pay reparations to Iran for WWII. When will the world be rid of this clown?


But I have a sneaking suspicion the "touchy-feelies" in the west are going to try to kow-tow to his demands......




Phatguy -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 7:44:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I wish him luck against the Russians, though I don't think his chances are good. If he succeeds he could go after the Greeks for wrecking most of Xerxes' cool ships at Salamis.

Do you realize how much those things would be worth now? Put twenty thousand Revolutionary Guards on those things and he could rule the Persian Gulf.


Ah but the Persians were "invading" Greece, so the Greeks sould sue for damage to their citizens and property ashore.

The Chinese could sue the Mongols, the Brits could sue the Italians (Roman invasions) ... wow we will need thousands of new international courts to settle all the resulting law suites from this precedent - everybody will be suing everybody!!!






Im going to get my lawyer to sue the descendants of those who migrated over the Bering for destroying the natural ambiance of a human-free Western Hemisphere.




wworld7 -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 7:45:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
... wow we will need thousands of new international courts to settle all the resulting law suites from this precedent - everybody will be suing everybody!!!


Can I sue my ex-wife to get back all the treasure that she looted after her invasion of my heart?




jwarrenw13 -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 7:48:26 PM)

My wife and daughter are "card carrying" Native Americans. We want reparations from all you Euros for the invasion of North America. We're already getting some from the US. But you Euros started it.




planner 3 -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 8:07:32 PM)

If my olde memory banks haven't failed the Iranians were very cozy with the Germans and Italians (declaring neutrality, yeah sure) prior to the fall of France, Poland, etc.

Speaking of a "bitter little man" remember one with a funny mustache in the 1930's......see what he started. He (prez iran) should be called Pinochio, the Ayotolla's little puppet.





hgilmer3 -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 8:20:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JW

My wife and daughter are "card carrying" Native Americans. We want reparations from all you Euros for the invasion of North America. We're already getting some from the US. But you Euros started it.


I'd have to pay reparations to myself since I have European blood in me and native american blood. I don't carry a card, because I have never had a reason to do so, but it is there just the same. I suppose if they were to pay reparations, I'd get screwed again! [:D]




Cap Mandrake -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 8:40:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JW

Neanderthals would be first in line.


Yes, that goes without saying, but who would step forward as the claimant? There has to be a plaintiff with standing in the case.


Pao Gasal maybe?

[image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Pau_Gasol_Santa_Maria.jpg[/image]




GoodGuy -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 9:08:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Was the rationale for the WW II "invasion" to keep Persian oil out of the hands of the Africa Corps?


No. The British Middle East Command didn't even move those reserves which were "parked" (held back to cater for possible arabian-jewish conflicts) in Palestine to the North African front. They weren't sure whether Cairo was out of reach or not, after Rommels thrust to El Alamein (in fact Cairo HQ started to burn files and documents already), but I am sure that they at least felt that the Germans couldn't reach Baghdad from the West, let alone Teheran.
Still, the Allies (Brits, some Indian Brigades + Soviets) invaded Iran, simply to grab the oil and, as mentioned in this thread, to secure a supply line across the Caspian Sea (and making use of the Trans-Iranian railroad).
Ironically, in 1942, Hitler indeed ordered to conduct a thrust to the Caucasus, but just in order to secure the Russian oil fields, as even Hitler (unlike some SS officers) regarded the Iranian fields as unreachable.
The Germans then advanced even into the wide Kalmücken-Steppe (dunno the English word), and - starting from Rostov at the Don - also southwards through the Caucasus.

The southern thrust did halt way past Stavropol I think, which is pretty much half of the distance from Rostov at the Don to the Iranian border.
The last obstacle some 130 km north of the border to Iran, though, is a rough mountain range forming the Northern border of Georgia, nowadays. I don't think it was tank friendly :). The only narrow point where you could ship around this range was some plain at the Caspian Sea, at the Eastern tip of the range.
Besides that, there was no real front in the Steppe, and I am not sure if there really was a fixed/stable front in the Caucasus. The Germans penetrated the area with light/medium armor, basically with fast troops.

-----
Technically, and according to international law, I guess, the invasion of a neutral country (Iran) was uncalled for and unauthorized. Iran rose to a regional power, due to the oil resources that had been discovered (1930s? 20s?). Rezah Schah actually had quite some sympathy for the Germans and their cause, and the Abadan refinery had an output of 8 million tons in 1940. As the Schah would not give in to Allied pressure/demands, after pro-german public protests and after he denied to let the Allies use the Trans-Iranian railroad for supply deliveries to Russia, they decided to sack him and invade in August 1941.

I did some research last year, and figured that the German war machine used to have a (motor gasoline) consumption between 70,000 (early 1945) and 320,000 tons (peak in June 1941) per month, so with a theoretical average of 666,666 tons per month (= 8 mill/year) being refined in Abadan, the possession of this massive output was going to be decisive for the "owner" and for the outcome of the war. After the Russians had to withdraw from their Caucasian oil fields (after destroying the installations), the Iranian fields helped a whole lot to keep up their mobility, I guess. The main reason for the Russians to invade (at that point) was to secure supply lines for (early British) "lend and lease", though.

Even though Ahmadenidschad (sp?) is a psycho, the Allies (which surely includes Russia) never paid any compensation, not for the massive amounts of oil, nor for any resources squeezed out of Iran. Germany had to pay reparations at least until 1953 (East Germany AND West Germany), and other Axis powers - after the Paris treaty in 1947 - paid reparations as well. German assets abroad (some say 20 Billion Reichsmarks) were kept and not deducted when the Allies determined the reparation figures.

Now, if some rational and reputable guy from Iran would have emitted such a claim, I could imagine that I would be tempted to say that he's got a point.
From his POV, it'd be like invading Great Britain, pumping their oil for a few years (to supply "his" war), and then leave and drop a non-chalant "bye", while squeezing some more oil + FULL benefits for another 6 years outta their oil fields. [:D]

After the war, since the country's economy was down, Iran received some support as part of the US Marshall plan.
The refinery/oil production remained in British hands, though, and - when Britain refused to give at least half (50%) of the net earnings to Iran - the Schah's son Mohammed Reza nationalized the oil industry (1951, IIRC).

Well, since it's him who claims stuff, I'd rather say "the past is the past".




06 Maestro -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 9:16:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: planner 3

If my olde memory banks haven't failed the Iranians were very cozy with the Germans and Italians (declaring neutrality, yeah sure) prior to the fall of France, Poland, etc.


The Shah (Pahlavi senior) was clearly pro Axis. As the Allies were fighting a war that they actually wanted to win; there was no point in allowing Iran the luxury of joining the conflict at the most inopportune time for the Allies. A secure southern supply route for Russia was needed.

Hmm, I wonder if removing the Axis minded leader is at the heart of this matter-it would not surprise me.

Shah junior, Reza Pahlavi, was a good buddy to the west for 38 years. Then the do gooders struck. How many have died because the west demanded he step down? This action by the west ranks in the top 5 stupid decisions of the last century.







jwilkerson -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 9:41:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JW

My wife and daughter are "card carrying" Native Americans. We want reparations from all you Euros for the invasion of North America. We're already getting some from the US. But you Euros started it.


Yeah but you "First Americans" invaded American before we did - and wiped out all the poor ole Woolly Mammoth's and lots of Caribou, the early horses, etc. [:D] so the Animal Protection Society will be suing you guys for sure!!!

Hecque if EVERYBODY just goes back where we came from - everything would be fine [:D][:D][:D]





SLAAKMAN -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 9:44:24 PM)

quote:

Even though Ahmadenidschad (sp?) is a psycho, the Allies (which surely includes Russia) never paid any compensation, not for the massive amounts of oil, and not for any resources squeezed out of Iran, either. Germany had to pay reparations at least until 1953 (East Germany AND West Germany), and other Axis powers - after the Paris treaty in 1947 - paid reparations as well. German assets abroad (some say 20 Billion Reichsmarks) were kept and not deducted when the Allies determined the reparation figures.

Now, if some rational and reputable guy from Iran would have emitted such a claim, I could imagine that I would be tempted to say that he's got a point.
After the war, since the country's economy was down, Iran received support as part of the US Marshall plan.
The refinery/oil production remained in British hands, though, and - when Britain refused to give at least half (50%) of the net earnings to Iran - the Schah's son Mohammed Reza nationalized the oil industry (1951, IIRC).

Actually if the books arent balanced and the debt is still owed then it might be a good idea to pay the Iranians for this. It certainly would ease tensions and we do need to find ways to procure better relations. Iran could also be a high volume trade partner. We should give them a chance.




GoodGuy -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 9:49:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Hecque if EVERYBODY just goes back where we came from - everything would be fine [:D][:D][:D]


If the (illegal) Mexicans go first, you guys will be in trouble. [:D]




GoodGuy -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 9:56:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

Actually if the books arent balanced and the debt is still owed then it might be a good idea to pay the Iranians for this. It certainly would ease tensions and we do need to find ways to procure better relations. Iran could also be a high volume trade partner. We should give them a chance.


I've thought about that too, after I read Joe's quote.
Thing is, if I'd be a British/Allied official, I wouldn't feel like paying monies to a dicatorship. Wait ... even though I'm German I don't feel like doing it. [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: JW

But you Euros started it.


I didn't start anything, k? [:)]




GoodGuy -> RE: Ahmadinejad Demands Compensation for WWII Invasion (1/10/2010 10:08:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

Hmm, I wonder if removing the Axis minded leader is at the heart of this matter-it would not surprise me.


That's an interesting thought. I have not read enough about that matter, i wonder if there's some truth to it. Iranian oil deliveries (maybe through neutral Turkey) would have made a real difference. The German Luftwaffe was often grounded due to lack of aviation fuel (starting around 1942), and tank formations ran out of fuel for the first time in spring 1942, already. Besides the most imminent problem to field a sufficient amount of troops after 1942, this was Germanys second biggest handicap.
Then, removing a pro-german leader just would have been consistent, in their minds.




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