PBEM World Cup (Full Version)

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red -> PBEM World Cup (7/2/2002 9:16:07 AM)

Setup:

12 players - "dirty dozen"

opponents randomly matched and setup their own games (sides,time, place, settings etc.)

first round - play offs: you lose, you are out.
12 players go in, 6 come out.

second round - play offs: you lose, sit on the sidelines
6 players go in, 3 come out

final
each player plays 2 games, the one that has the highest score wins the title of "PBEM World Cup Champion 2002".

Victory = 1 pt. Draw = 0 pt. Loss = -1 pt.

A tie will be resolved via a final game.

So how about it, gents?



Goblin -> (7/2/2002 9:18:49 AM)

Sounds fun, but won't most people just fight it out and come up with a draw every time?



red -> (7/2/2002 9:21:51 AM)

well thats true, nobody likes to surrender. is there a way to limit the game to 10 turns and then count the points to determine the winner?



Gary Tatro -> I am in. (7/2/2002 9:38:56 AM)

I would like to me the Country US.
Gary gets a jump on the other contestents.



Goblin -> (7/2/2002 9:48:24 AM)

How about honor system-if you know you have lost, surrender. If the game goes the length ( I suggest twenty turns-everyone uses same points, same size maps), then whoever has more points wins, period. The players should make sure that the maps are not points-per-turn victory hexes, or player one will have the advantage.

I'm in too. I will also take the US.



red -> honor system sounds good (7/2/2002 9:59:53 AM)

Sounds good to me. Actually it's a good idea to pick the country one represents, makes it more competitive. I take Russia/Soviet Union.



Fallschirmjager -> Sorry to burst you guys bubble.... (7/2/2002 10:32:52 AM)

I had an idea like this for a while but I couldnt find a way to implement it.

First of all the maps are going to vary widely so that some players will have easy maps and some have harder maps.
A standerd set of tourny maps would be the way to go.

You would have to tell everyone to use the same number of points as well.
You would have to tell all the players to use the same force set.

The only way to have a tourny is to have an official "tourny rules" govering each battle so that all the battles played would have the same characteristics.

If this was the real world cup you would have on game played in gravel another on ice, one game with a real ball and another kicking around a 12 lb civil war era cannonball.

All the games need to have a set way they are played in order to be fair.


If you get all this worked out ill join up.


I may sound a bit anal but ive been wanting to have a "official" tourny for a long time.



red -> rules (7/2/2002 10:41:26 AM)

I think 'play off' rule eliminates the 'easy' games because since the two players set it up, each knows that they might be eliminated so they won't make it easy on the other. That also reduces the overhead of having to manage the game setups and maps. I do like the idea of having a set number of points though force make up should be flexible so we can exercise our creativity.

As a suggestion, do you think it would make sense to make round 1 to be 1939-1942. Round 2, 1942-1943 and the final would be 43-45. It would follow the timeline for WWII though it may give some unfair advantage to certain countries.



Goblin -> (7/2/2002 10:45:20 AM)

I disagree, and think it can be done. Same number of points, agreed. Same size map, k. After that, its to varied of a game to try to set limits. One pair might fight Brits/Germans, in the desert, early war, another pair might want late war Pacific. What matters, I think, is that everyone has fun, and plays fair.

It is just impossible to standardize it. Unless we all played the exact same [I]scenarios [/I] ,with the same starting positions, etc. I wouldn't want that.

Goblin- A Goblin says try it anyways;)



Fallschirmjager -> (7/2/2002 10:54:51 AM)

Actually....everyone playing the [I]exact[/I] same scenario is waht I had in mind....

This would be somewhat boring but it would be the best judge of ones skills and tell us who the true champ around here.


If you wanted to vary it a bit you would use the same map but find the points/country/year combo that matches another points/country/year combo to maximise fairness.

I hope you understand what Im saying its hard to explain all the varibles that would have to be the same.

But like goblin said it would be tedious to do this.



You guys have fun this should be interesting to watch.



TimeTanker -> Count me in... (7/2/2002 1:00:00 PM)

I vote for the "Level Playing Field Concept"

But, as a lot of the skill in this game comes from choosing your weapons; perhaps there should be a Standard Core set up with a certain amount of points left for the individual to add his own uniqe touch. And, since the "Left over points" for individualization would be the same for each player. The skill will be in what each player picks to supplement his core units.

So with all of this discussion who will take the first step to design something?



Brutto-Bob -> Mmmmhh... (7/2/2002 4:46:10 PM)

I think that if you set up a competition the most part of players will cheat to win.

The only way is to play online and not PBEM.



mogami -> Most Part Cheaters (7/2/2002 8:09:54 PM)

Hi, Brutto-Bob I don't think most part of players would cheat.
I like the online battle idea (its a lot quicker)

Check Goblin for steriods

To get the most countries make it pre-1941
I'll take Holland

3k meeting engagement 20 turns same map all games.
one victory hex area per side (opposite map edges (exit hex))



Goblin -> (7/2/2002 9:17:02 PM)

Alot of a players strengths comes from his own purchases, his favored country to play, and the type of maps he likes, etc. To take any of that away by standardizing everything actually promotes an unfair contest. As long as the two players agree on all terms before each match, it must be assumed that both think they can win, thus it is fair.

Goblin- A Goblin doesn't want clones



BORO -> (7/3/2002 12:05:50 AM)

I think its a great idea. Are points figured so that different countries or units are worth more? So that unless you played with the same units the points system would not be a fair way to judge. Or the turns are set to say 40 to allow enough time to play so that one player is the clear winner (fight to the death) one is the clear loser, winner moves on. But that would be a problem in the sense of timing this tourney out.

Why couldn't you say use Map #xxx, XX vs XX, and set maybe the year, do the same for each round, no draws, winners move on.



Goblin -> (7/3/2002 12:53:41 AM)

With True Troop and National Characteristics ON, experience and such is factored into price, so it is already balanced.

Since the name of this game is adaptability, and you get to view the map before your purchases, no set map is needed. Just map size. If two players want to fight Marines/Jpn, they shouldn't get stuck in the desert because everyone else is. Adapt to the terrain people. A true champ would.



Fallschirmjager -> (7/3/2002 7:40:17 AM)

He has a point there.
Japenese and marine equipment was made ot be used in the jungle while equipment like the Red Army used was made to be used in weather best suited to hell.



Still......I vote for the Everyone has the same everything.
You could get a map designer to create a tourny "map pack" of perfectly balenced maps.



red -> get things going (7/3/2002 7:07:38 PM)

Ok, so far we have 8 ppl who displayed interest:

red (SU)
Goblin (US)
Gary Tatro (US)
Fallschirmjager (nation?)
TimeTanker (nation?)
Brutto-Bob (nation?)
Mogami (Holland?)
BORO (nation?)

Do you want to start with that or wait for more? Also since our group is a democracy, let's decide on the rules. I vote for keeping them up to the the contenstants capping the points allowed at 10000. Other than that, I have no reservations.

P.S.: So what, now nobody is going to play on German side? :)



mogami -> System (7/3/2002 8:37:47 PM)

Hi, Just shooting off ideas.
players must make a cut
each series must score 1 pt out of 2 games or drop out
Allow draws
Scoring system 1pt win .5 draw 0 loss
Pairing first round normal (draw lots)

Second round like scores paired
(players with 1 point play 1 pt score
players with .5 play .5
players with 0 play 0)

if odd number of players then highest score gets a 1pt bye.

keep points low (3-5k) to speed up games but all games must use same point total.
Keep equipment to early periods (fairer for smaller countries
1940 Holland versus 1944 German not going to be fair no matter what point total used)



Goblin -> (7/3/2002 9:21:30 PM)

Same size maps, same point totals for everyone, end restrictions. Let the players decide what is fun. Points should be kept low though (3 or 4k), because if you have 10k and the two players pick an early war battle, they will have a division each!;)

Goblin- A Goblin says K.I.S.S.



red -> (7/3/2002 9:28:10 PM)

okay, 4K pts sounds good, as far as countries and time periods go, I think we can accomadate everybody by letting the players decide on those. So for example if Mogami plays against Goblin, it may be Holland vs Germany 1940. If I play against Goblin it may be 1942 etc.

K.I.S.S. rules!



TimeTanker -> Ich Bin Ein Berliner..... (7/3/2002 10:08:32 PM)

Ok I will take Germans......can I have a company of Porshe Maus's ....:p

I go for Goblins freewheeling approach. Limit points to 4K. Random selection of players intitially by Country. Then let players decide what time period is optimum for potential success for either.

That point system looked doable and simple I say go for it. Anything that will get the show on the road and simplify the process.



VikingNo2 -> (7/3/2002 10:16:36 PM)

count me in

My two cents 1st a uninterested party draws countrys for the first round, and the first round is force on force any year, 2nd round42-43, last round 44-49



Goblin -> (7/3/2002 10:46:19 PM)

Where is Jess?!?!? JESSSSSSSSSS!!! Come out and play!



Scharfschütze -> I want to be champion, too! (7/3/2002 10:51:53 PM)

Since our soccer boys didn´t cut it in the finals, at least one other cup should go to Germany!:)

Count me in, and count on me to invade all around... Brazil anyone?:D



Goblin -> Re: get things going (7/3/2002 11:27:50 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by red
[B]Ok, so far we have 8 ppl who displayed interest:

red (SU)
Goblin (US)
Gary Tatro (US)
Fallschirmjager (nation?)
TimeTanker (nation?)
Brutto-Bob (nation?)
Mogami (Holland?)
BORO (nation?)

[/B][/QUOTE]


Didn't FJ say he was sitting this out? Also, for second match we can change nations, can't we? (yep, I plan on being in round two, you losers;) :p )

Goblin- A Goblin says La-hoo-za-her



Brutto-Bob -> Choosing nation... (7/3/2002 11:55:30 PM)

Ok, I will take germans.



TimeTanker -> Nations (7/4/2002 3:57:44 AM)

Revised List:

red (SU)
Goblin (US)
Gary Tatro (US)
Fallschirmjager (nation?)
TimeTanker (Germany)
Brutto-Bob (Germany)
Mogami (Holland?)
BORO (nation?)
Scharfschütze (Germany)

It looked as though Viking2 expressed an interest in playing in this. But, did not express a desired Country.

Vike are you out there?



Fallschirmjager -> (7/4/2002 4:09:21 AM)

**** I was going to be Germany....who is left......Ill be the English
can I pick units from the entire commonwealth?:D



Goblin -> (7/4/2002 4:15:55 AM)

Pick Germany, FJ, there are enough allied players.



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