RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (Full Version)

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sven6345789 -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 1:39:15 PM)

if you want to send pilots to the general reserve, left click once to send him to group reserve, then left click on the pilot again to send him to general reserve. You must have more pilots than planes in the squadron though.
Group reserve means that the pilot is available for the group only.
If you have as many pilots as planes, you cannot rotate the pilots out of the unit.
at least that is how i understood it.



Smeulders -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 1:48:18 PM)

For the USN you can use Kingfisher squadrons to train you DB pilots and the Catalinas for Torpedo training. Not quite realistic, but it does get the job done.

EUBanana, take a look at the 'pilot management' addendum. It should be somewhere in your WITP folder since the last patch and explains quite a bit about all the pools.



Chickenboy -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 2:19:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Roberts DT is an air skill 70 pilot twiddling his thumbs in an Airacobra squadron in Sydney.

I sent him to the group reserve.

Now when I switch to an embattled P40 squadron in Bengal I click on 'request veteran'. Roberts DT is there. However while looking at the veteran screen I change it from viewing 'any' to viewing 'reserve'. Roberts DT is indeed in the reserve, listed as 'fighter reserve', presumably as his main skill is air. So I could select him as mentioned previously.

Unfortunately it looks like that pilot source thing is wrong, as when I click it onto 'reserve' somewhere near the front and then get pilot, even though Roberts is the only pilot in the fighter reserve, I don't get Roberts, I get some chap called Vebber who is green as grass.


EU Banana,

You're almost there. Instead of just leaving whatshisname in "Group Reserve" go back to his now grayed-out name and left click one more time. Doing so will now place him in "General Reserve". This is more useful to draw him from later.



EUBanana -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 2:48:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders
EUBanana, take a look at the 'pilot management' addendum. It should be somewhere in your WITP folder since the last patch and explains quite a bit about all the pools.


Ah yes, I see it in the manuals folder. thanks.



Athius -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 3:05:11 PM)

The 49 indicates the avarage experience level, not the number of pilots.



WLockard -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 4:26:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

For the USN you can use Kingfisher squadrons to train you DB pilots and the Catalinas for Torpedo training. Not quite realistic, but it does get the job done.

EUBanana, take a look at the 'pilot management' addendum. It should be somewhere in your WITP folder since the last patch and explains quite a bit about all the pools.



they only problem is that are going to be listed as Patrol Reserves. So if you use them as Db or TB pilots they will take an experience/skill hit.



Smeulders -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 6:51:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WLockard


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

For the USN you can use Kingfisher squadrons to train you DB pilots and the Catalinas for Torpedo training. Not quite realistic, but it does get the job done.

EUBanana, take a look at the 'pilot management' addendum. It should be somewhere in your WITP folder since the last patch and explains quite a bit about all the pools.



they only problem is that are going to be listed as Patrol Reserves. So if you use them as Db or TB pilots they will take an experience/skill hit.


First time I heard of that, but it can't be helped. Either you do it this way and take the exp/skill hit, or you take them straight from the pool and get worse pilots. Doesn't really bother me either, it only seems fair that switching from kingfisher to Dauntless isn't "free".



erstad -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 6:55:11 PM)

quote:

Even if they run out of pilots that graduate from flight school, there will be endless supply of exp/skill 10-15? pilots


What's the basis for this statement? I haven't seen anything in any of the documentation that suggests it's accurate.



Q-Ball -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 6:57:39 PM)

OK, so the thread became a series of training tips, which is OK, I just want to hopefully steer this back to the original point.....

So, sounds like we agree? That Allied pilot quality will converge with Japanese pilot quality for most of the game? (Well, we can't say for sure until we get there, but it does SEEM that way)

If so, is that OK? And maybe there are two answers; one for history, the other for play balance?

I can certainly comment on what WITP was like: I had virtually unlimited production of Franks late in the war, over 800/mo rolling off the lines. By bombing the Chinese, we also had about unlimited supplies of 70+ exp. pilots. I would hoard up a pile of these units, and send 1000+ planes at once at the US....where hundreds would then get quickly killed off anyway, for not a big result. Back to square one and repeat the process.

So, WITP, in a roundabout way, kind of simulated the futility of the Japanese late-war air position, just in a different way than historical. Is AE going to be a repeat? Not sure.



Smeulders -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 7:13:19 PM)

Well, exp is hard to get up with training, so their may remain a difference there between the Allies and Japanese, the question is how much of an impact that will have. I've read somewhere (might have been your AAR) that exp primarily affects morale and fatigue, so it may be hard(er) to keep the lower experienced Japanese pilots in the line without them refusing to fly due to morale and taking higher losses because of fatigue. Not sure if the effects are strong enough for that though.

Edit : I just looked and it seems that the exp for Japanese pilots from the training pool is in fact about as high as for the allies (except Navy). The questions then are.

1) Can the Japanese get enough "training" units to train all of those new pilots, allies most likely can.
2) How likely is it that the Japanese will lose more than the 190 pilots per branch in a month. If this starts happening, then they'll have to use not yet graduated pilots, which may be painful.



Nomad -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 7:28:55 PM)

One thing to keep in mind is the number of pilots that the IJN will be getting. Here is a table from scenario 1 showing the number of pilots entering training per month for 1942. Notice that the IJN only gets 150 entering per month and they will not be ready until 12 months after that. You can draw on the ones in training school but they come out with a very low skill/experience level.



[image]local://upfiles/4176/ABA7AD51536945E0A7C19CA44CF5A829.jpg[/image]



EUBanana -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 7:39:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
So, WITP, in a roundabout way, kind of simulated the futility of the Japanese late-war air position, just in a different way than historical. Is AE going to be a repeat? Not sure.


Kinda depends on how well Corsairs do IMHO. I recall that in WITP a superior aircraft would absolutely annihilate lessers. So in 1941 the uber-Zeroes with their maneuverability bonus were invincible. However later on the Corsair would be just as (even more?) invincible, and eat any Japanese plane alive no matter who was flying it.

I've not seen Corsairs in action in the game yet. However it looks to me like the aircraft aren't quite so important as they once were. I'm expecting Corsairs will not enjoy complete domination like they used to.

In which case I imagine the Allied and Japanese fighter forces will be much more even, in both experience and quality, with the Allies ending up with a qualitative edge but not an overpowering one.

Supposition of course but I'm looking forward to seeing Corsairs in action against a human opponent in some AAR.



jetjockey -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 7:42:58 PM)

Being one not blessed with a good memory, I tend to avoid stealing veterens from another squadron's reserve. I use a squadron's reserve to "man-up" with veterens squadrons about to see action, otherwise I place experienced pilots "up for grabs" in the general reserve.



Q-Ball -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 8:03:54 PM)

Nomad, you might be right that 150/mo will not keep pace. You would have to lose 5 a day to fall off the pace, but also the IJN air is rapidly expanding throughout the war, so that in itself will soak up alot of pilots.

I think it's tough to draw final conclusions until more of us are in 43/44/45 as japan, but on the surface I made an observation about where I think it's going



Smeulders -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 8:17:15 PM)

Looking at the screen in the editor, it does seem that Japanese pilot training expands massively in 43' (615/480), of course that means those pilots won't get out of training until 44' though.



vonTirpitz -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/16/2010 8:23:43 PM)

Don't forget that the Japanese have to pay a hefty x5 for all pilots in the training pool at the first of each month.

If the allies quash resources and industry then IJN and IJA will get nothing in terms of trained pilots. If the allies can't do this by 44-45 then they pretty much should lose the war because they did nothing to stop Japanese industry and production systems.



bruin -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/17/2010 4:55:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

Even if they run out of pilots that graduate from flight school, there will be endless supply of exp/skill 10-15? pilots


What's the basis for this statement? I haven't seen anything in any of the documentation that suggests it's accurate.



I believe this was accurate in WITP where if you had no pilots in the replacement pool, you could pull pilots with 1/2 the experience. In AE this is different.

Which begs the question, if it takes 12 months for the Japanese to train a pilot from 0 - 30, wouldn't it just be much quicker to keep pulling the pilots all the way down to getting the 0 skill pilots and training them on map? You could probably train a pilot on map from 0-30 in 1.5 months versus the 12 months of off map training. Only thing holding you back are possible number of airframes available, and most likely the number of squadrons.



Smeulders -> RE: Observation on Japanese v Allied Pilot Quality (1/17/2010 7:56:52 AM)

Training exp on map is very very slow, skill can be trained efficiently, but not exp. That means your pilots will be crashing your planes into the ground because they're fatigued after mission two, or simply refuse to fly after one pilot in the squadron is shot down and morale plummets, even if you managed to get them a reasonable skill. (Apparently exp primarily affects morale and fatigue).

Even if it is only two month from 0-30 in exp, you'll have to find about 300 navy training positions and 400 army training positions to get that done and much more if you want to make them actually competent. If you have to start pulling pilots from the guys in training pools, you're likely in big trouble.



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