Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules

Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (Full Version)

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Icedawg -> Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/23/2010 5:50:02 PM)
Are Japanese offensives possible in China now that the new garrison requirements are in place? I just started a new game and was browsing through my bases in China and I just wanted to cry. [:(] I would estimate that, at best, I can muster about 1000 AV for offensive operations. Garrison requirements chew up the rest of my troops in China. Has anyone been able to launch any kind of Japanese offensives in China since the new garrison rules?

coxville -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/23/2010 6:05:07 PM)
A lot of shuffling and the movement of many troops from Manchukuo, you can risk about 3000 AF but all the artillery is shiftable. A lot of planning but great when it comes together. Chris

pompack -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/23/2010 10:10:26 PM)
Actually I have not found the garrison requirements to be much of a problem since I can't afford to move enough supplies into China to support an offensive by the people that are available.

CarnageINC -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 1:12:21 AM)
My opponent Treznor has whipped up a good offensive in China. He says he's spent most of his PP to ship units from Manchuria to bolster his attacks. It took him until Dec 26-27 to launch any major attacks, which did catch me off guard, I thought he was kind of ignoring China. Its March 42 and hes making good attacks north to south. But I believe most of his offensives have stalled out because I finally have gotten enough in front of him to stop him ...for now.

Mikeydz -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 3:56:25 AM)
I concur. You can still gear up for offensive operations in China, but it takes a bit longer to get rolling since you have to get bring units in from other areas. Before the updated requirements, you could get rolling with what was already there pretty much right from the start.

Zenra -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 3:00:41 PM)
I've found the best way to bolster offensive power in China is to transfer artillery from Manchukuo. There are a lot of good units there and the PP are well spent. Concentrate artillery, bombard for a couple of turns before attacking, and start your march south...

Feltan -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 3:07:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mitchell I've found the best way to bolster offensive power in China is to transfer artillery from Manchukuo. There are a lot of good units there and the PP are well spent. Concentrate artillery, bombard for a couple of turns before attacking, and start your march south... BAH HUMBUG! Fix bayonets and shock attack! Regards, Feltan

Zenra -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 3:12:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Feltan BAH HUMBUG! Fix bayonets and shock attack! Regards, Feltan I guess I have to admit this is closer to the truth of what I really do most often - I might like to think I am patient, cunning, strategic... But usually I just want to ATTACK!!

vicberg -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 4:25:02 PM)
Perhaps I'm being too gamey with the transfer rules, but I move the 5th Army in total and 3rd Army in total out of Manchuko starting turn 1...takes about a week for everything to arrive. It's approximately 6 divisions plus some supporting armor and close to the 3000 point limit. In addition, I move the Kwangtung HQ over as well, so there's no need to even change the chain of command (preserve the PP points). The 5th supports the 1st Army in the north and the 3rd supports the 11th Army in the middle. Both the 3rd and 5th have a lot of artillery, which can do 1000-1500 casualties each turn, to soften up Chinese concentrations. With the 3rd and 5th, I can shift the 13th Army, which starts pretty spread out, down to the south. Once the 3rd is in action, I can concentrate the 11th, which is also spread out. This enables me to make a 3 prong attack (north, south and middle) starting around the 13-14th with the initial objectives of Nanyang & Sian in the north, Changsha in the middle and Chuhsien, Wenchow and Kanshien/Kukong/Wuchow in the south (with 23rd support out of Canton). Check all the cities in central China. Quite a few of them do not require garrisons so you can empty them and there's more than enough units that start in Shanghai and surrounding areas as well as the north to garrison everything else (with the exception of the large cities like Canton and Shanghai).

Zenra -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 4:47:48 PM)
vicberg - i assume you are not paying the PP to move the 3rd & 5th armies to China? Probably couldn't do that in PBEM.

treespider -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 9:09:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vicberg Perhaps I'm being too gamey with the transfer rules, but I move the 5th Army in total and 3rd Army in total out of Manchuko starting turn 1...takes about a week for everything to arrive. It's approximately 6 divisions plus some supporting armor and close to the 3000 point limit. In addition, I move the Kwangtung HQ over as well, so there's no need to even change the chain of command (preserve the PP points). The 5th supports the 1st Army in the north and the 3rd supports the 11th Army in the middle. Both the 3rd and 5th have a lot of artillery, which can do 1000-1500 casualties each turn, to soften up Chinese concentrations. With the 3rd and 5th, I can shift the 13th Army, which starts pretty spread out, down to the south. Once the 3rd is in action, I can concentrate the 11th, which is also spread out. This enables me to make a 3 prong attack (north, south and middle) starting around the 13-14th with the initial objectives of Nanyang & Sian in the north, Changsha in the middle and Chuhsien, Wenchow and Kanshien/Kukong/Wuchow in the south (with 23rd support out of Canton). Check all the cities in central China. Quite a few of them do not require garrisons so you can empty them and there's more than enough units that start in Shanghai and surrounding areas as well as the north to garrison everything else (with the exception of the large cities like Canton and Shanghai). Although allowable within the context of the current code...this is a total exploit and would be unacceptable in a PBeM. Maybe someday we will get borders coded...

Canoerebel -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 9:37:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mitchell I've found the best way to bolster offensive power in China is to transfer artillery from Manchukuo. There are a lot of good units there and the PP are well spent. Concentrate artillery, bombard for a couple of turns before attacking, and start your march south... This is the quickest and easiest way to create total havoc in China and make a complete mockery of the game. Players who like this strategy should lobby for a toggle switch to allow Japan to develop nuclear weapons, and another for the Allies to employ F-16 and F-15 fighters in 1943.

treespider -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 9:52:29 PM)
Well in my game with Przemek...I'm Japan and getting my butt handed to me in China..have already lost Ichang and have had the 39th Division crushed outside of Nancheng...and its just the beginning of Jan 42. China will require me to divert forces from Manchuria...rather than using those troops elsewhere... ------- In my game with Dixon, I am the Allies and am feeling quite secure in China....in spite of losing Chengchow. I never intended to try and hold it...and things may get ugly for him soon. ------- In both games the Japanese are required to expend PP to bring troops in from Manchuria.

stuman -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 9:59:14 PM)
quote: Players who like this strategy should lobby for a toggle switch to allow Japan to develop nuclear weapons, and another for the Allies to employ F-16 and F-15 fighters in 1943. I like your first suggestion, but not the second. Japanese nukes in '43 !

gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/24/2010 10:34:04 PM)
My experience is that you don't really need units from manchuria to mount an effective offensive early on in China. I bought out four pieces of heavy artillery, and two regiments of tanks, and thats it. And that is just for one army. I'm on the offensive with four, from two directions :) Just checked things ingame, i have about 7000-8000 AV on the offensive. I may not remember correctly about what units i bought out, of the above I'm sure, but i may have bought out a division or two, but definiately not more than that. (I have 12603 AV in Manchuria currently, but i don't know how many units have arrived since the start of the game) But one thing is for sure: if you want to be on the offensive you'll need a LOT of supplies! (PBEM game, scen 2, and it's '42 late march) Correction: I calculated the amount of AV on the offensive: 9577

crsutton -> RE: Japanese Offensives In China With New Garrison Rules (1/25/2010 4:40:10 AM)
Initially Japan should be able to knife right through China-especially with extra units from Manchuria. The Chinese units start with experience in the low 20s and are very understrength. Japan has fewer cities to garrison. And most of the fighting is taking place in fairly open terrain. Once the Chinese get back into rough, mountain and wooded rough terrain. Then the party slows dramatically. Also, a good Allied player will not change any planning locations for any units. Once these units reach 100 planning they will begin to gain experience fairly fast and soon be in the 45-50 exp range. It seems to me that with the fixes in the patches, China is working farily well as a historical representation. The fighting there can be a constant drain on Japanese men and material. That is the way it should be.

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