Mitchell with 75mm Gun...not available? (Full Version)

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Odin -> Mitchell with 75mm Gun...not available? (7/4/2002 1:53:09 AM)

I remember a version of the Mitchell with an 75mm cannon forward...not used in UV?Or was it a later design?

And was this design succesful? The germans once fitted 74mm Anti-Tank guns into Ju-88 to use them as tank destroyers..

But i see a good weapon here for attacking small ships such as AG´s and such stuff...:)



mdiehl -> (7/4/2002 4:49:06 AM)

Your game may be too early for the 75mm equipped B-25s. The first variant equipped with the 75mm (and two forward firing .50s in the nose) was the B-25G. The improved strike a/c (B-25H) deleted the co-pilot (saving his weight, plus his armor and seat), replaced the standard army 75mm with a light weight version, and added a slew more of .50 cal in the nose section. Deliveries of both a/c started some time in 1943 (IIRC) with the first B25Hs arriving in New Guinea during July 1943.



JohnK -> Was kind of a dog... (7/4/2002 12:21:05 PM)

It wasn't successful. Rate of fire too low, jammed a lot. Weren't all that many and I believe the 75mms ended up getting removed.

Having a gillion .50 calibers turned out to be far more effective.

Interestingly, the on-line sim Warbirds (I now play Aces High) did have the 75mm B-25 too. It's more interesting theoretically than in practice.



Paul Goodman -> (7/12/2002 4:43:11 AM)

Well, while we are at it, you don't get any of the B-25H models, with or without the 75mm and more to the point, up to 14 .50 cal machine guns, but we do get the B-25J's, which were not accepted by the Army until December, 1943 and didn't reach the 5th Air Force until several months later, by which time the game is long over. Hmmm. Although the B-25's were loaded up with the 50's for suppressing fire from ships they were skip bombing, it seems they ought to be pretty serious in the FB roll, also.

Which brings up another point. I imagine most of us would agree that the best fighter bomber of WWII was the P-47, yet this aircraft is not considered a fighter-bomber by UV and not able to set ground attack missions. How odd. And how will this play out in WITP when these and many other aircraft are armed with 4.5" rockets. Will Corsairs still be just fighters? Is this a gamey consideration to keep the U.S.'s overwhelming firepower from being, well, overwhelming.

Paul



dgaad -> (7/12/2002 4:48:54 AM)

Here's a pic of the B-25 with the 75mm gun :

[IMG]http://www.legionhq.net/AHCBA/b25-014_75mm.jpg[/IMG]
[I][SIZE=2][B]"Hey, Jacko, why do you have to grab everything? Try flying the plane once in a while."[/I][/SIZE][/B]

My sources say 1400 of this model (B-25G & B-25H) were produced.



Paul Goodman -> (7/13/2002 3:44:46 AM)

Great picture, dgaad. I think the fifties in the blisters were retained even when they went back to the bombadier's position.

My reading suggests that these 75's would open fire around 2,000 yards and cease around 1,000 yards, firing three rounds, if all went well. The fifties would open up at 1,000 yards (with or without 75's on board) and cease at 500 yards.

You can easily count the 14 machine guns. four in the nose, four in the blisters, 2 top turret, 2 tail, 1 port, 1 stbd waist; yup, 14 alright. I personally don't think I would feel too snug in a barge with this guy bearing down on me, armored or not. In addition to the horrific fire from the nose, the tail guns would fire directly down into the barge as the aircraft past over, climbing. Argh!

Paul



dgaad -> (7/13/2002 4:13:05 AM)

Paul : I think the correct word for the feelings of barge and light transport personnel is : TERRIFIED.



Diealtekoenig -> (7/13/2002 4:59:39 AM)

From my reading about the multi-machinegun models (without the 75) the MGs jammed frequently too. They would often only have 2 to 4 of the forward firing guns still shooting after a moment or two. The guns were clearable but not all clearable.

The configuration was less effective because of that (but still devastating to the targets)



CynicAl -> (7/13/2002 10:49:54 PM)

Another reason the 75mm-armed B-25s went out of favor was target scarcity. Late in the war, there just weren't a bunch of targets needing a three inch shell - a dozen .50s more than sufficed for anything smaller or thinner-skinned than a DD.



msaario -> (7/17/2002 7:26:57 PM)

The Germans had varying experiences with the Ju-87G model, armed with two 37mm cannons. The rate of fire was slow, they jammed frequently and they only carried a few pieces of ammo per gun. However, a good pilot could knock out a number of tanks in one sortie.

I think the Henschel 129 was also disliked, had a big gun to shoot around, but was slow and hard to aim.

With MGs and 30mm cannons it's more like a shotgun effect.

--Mikko



dgaad -> (7/18/2002 8:04:13 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by msaario
[B]The Germans had varying experiences with the Ju-87G model, armed with two 37mm cannons. The rate of fire was slow, they jammed frequently and they only carried a few pieces of ammo per gun. However, a good pilot could knock out a number of tanks in one sortie.

I think the Henschel 129 was also disliked, had a big gun to shoot around, but was slow and hard to aim.

With MGs and 30mm cannons it's more like a shotgun effect.

--Mikko [/B][/QUOTE]

On the other hand, there are German pilots who knocked out dozens of tanks each with these aircraft.



msaario -> (7/19/2002 2:36:04 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dgaad
[B]

On the other hand, there are German pilots who knocked out dozens of tanks each with these aircraft. [/B][/QUOTE]

Absolutely correct. I have two books about Rudel, so I am aware of the capabilities of Ju87G. Naturally, the situation in the Russian front was completely different from PTO. Usually B25's had air superiority, and the slow Stukas and Henschels were chased by swarms of Russian fighters (try to shoot a tank in that situation).

...once again it's the pilot experience that counts...

--Mikko



HMSWarspite -> (7/20/2002 12:50:30 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Goodman
[B]
You can easily count the 14 machine guns. four in the nose, four in the blisters, 2 top turret, 2 tail, 1 port, 1 stbd waist; yup, 14 alright. I personally don't think I would feel too snug in a barge with this guy bearing down on me, armored or not. In addition to the horrific fire from the nose, the tail guns would fire directly down into the barge as the aircraft past over, climbing. Argh!

Paul [/B][/QUOTE]

IIRC the 14 MGs in a solid nose B25J were 14 foward firing MGs, not total. 8 in a solid nose (two columns of 4,) 4 in the blisters, and the top turret. The rest (tail, waist etc) were just(!) for self defence. Grand total 18 50cal MG, good for all minor clearance work, and infestation control! (800/4390 J's were solid nose ).



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