RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (Full Version)

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elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/22/2010 7:00:41 PM)

AGN made little progress this turn.  Just when I thought we had broken through a lot more Soviets showed up.  The screen shot below is a more zoomed in view.  Thought you might like the variety.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARnorthturn7.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/22/2010 7:16:02 PM)

OK I couldn't resist the temptation to break clear of the Soviets south of Vitebsk and drive 12th Pz Div all the way to Smolensk.  They will probably be isolated in the Soviet part of the turn but we should have enough force to break them free if necessary.  I really wanted to blast through that huge Soviet air park southeast of Smolensk but just didn't have the units. If they are smart they will all have to bug out this turn or possible get overrun next turn. We also managed to pocket two groups of Soviet units although the northern pocket probably won't hold.  And we expanded the bridgehead further below Mogilev.  The AI made a general withdrawal from the Pripyat Marsh off the southern edge of this screen shot and we are rushing to fill the void and shorten our lines.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARcenterturn7.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/22/2010 7:24:07 PM)

AGS is still pushing toward Kiev and getting closer.  Again we thought we had a clear breakthrough but more Soviets have appeared.  The Soviets pulled their line back south of Zhitomir and we are moving up to reestablish contact as fast as we can.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARsouthturn7.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/22/2010 7:27:00 PM)

In the far south we have surrounded Odessa and begun a bombing campaign to reduce the defenders before the assault.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARRumaniaturn7.jpg[/image]





elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/22/2010 7:43:10 PM)

Losses through turn 7:

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARtrn7groundlosses.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARtrn7airlosses.jpg[/image]



USSLockwood -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/22/2010 7:44:53 PM)

Next stop Vyazma!



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 11:25:14 AM)

How did the Soviets get 2001 operational losses, did you overrun their airfields?



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 12:01:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

How did the Soviets get 2001 operational losses, did you overrun their airfields?


Operational losses are non-combat related. Crash on takeoff or landing, aircraft components failing in flight, getting lost in the soup and making a forced landing, etc. Some of those losses get repaired I believe even though they are in the permanent column. I don't think aircraft lost to overrun are included in that but I'll check.



Captain B -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 12:16:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

AGN made little progress this turn.  Just when I thought we had broken through a lot more Soviets showed up.  The screen shot below is a more zoomed in view.  Thought you might like the variety.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARnorthturn7.jpg[/image]



Elmo,

Thanks for the reply earlier. Now a couple of more questions on this BE-AY-UTE-IH-FULL AGN screenshot....

1. The triangles in the upper left corners represent something by color...green i assume means fairly good supply and combat ready by TOE. The yellow marginal in one or both areas and red means trouble. Can ou clarify?

2. Can the German player see the soviet status as wel (the units in close contact and for some distance from the front have visible triangles as well)l...that may be an unfair advantage unless this is an algorithim by recon that may or may not be right.

Retired and being an alpha tester...what a life! Enjoy! And this is a great AAR btw.



PyleDriver -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 12:57:03 PM)

The upper left corner triangle is what we call soft factors. It toggles from off, morale, experience, supplies, fuel and attached units. The upper right trangle is movement. Black inside the white hasn't moved, white has moved and still can, no triangle theres no movement left...Enemy soft factors can be seen if the detection level rises high enough...



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 5:53:22 PM)

Progress for AGN has all but stopped.  We are pushing forward a couple of hexes per turn but we'll never make Leningrad before Winter at this rate.  XXVI and I Corps of the 18th Army (purple) along the coast are just about at the limit of their supply lines.  Someone suggested diverting from the direct route to Leningrad to cut off Soviet forces west of 4th Pz Grp (red) and I will consider that if they don't withdraw this turn.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARnorthturn8.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 6:02:59 PM)

Time for a change of plans for AGC.  The envisioned mega pocket never developed.  So 2nd Pz Grp (light blue) and 3rd Pz Grp (light green) will both drive right through the center of the Soviet forces in this area and head for Vyazma and then Moscow.  We'll try to carry the day with a straight forward bull rusn and the infantry holding the flanks.  There should be plenty of infantry in the area now to allow this without risk of the panzers being cut off.  So as you can see in this shot 2nd PzGrp is relocating northeast to coordinate with 3rd Pz Grp.  2nd Army (medium blue) is now in position to take over on the right flank while 4th Army (dark blue) finishes up it's operation to the south in the marsh.  9th Army (dark green) will continue to hold the left flank after clearing the pockets from last turn and will maintain contact with AGN.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARcenterturn8.jpg[/image]



ComradeP -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 6:14:07 PM)

Elmo, do you think it's possible for a competent Axis player to achieve a near-historical result for 1941 without the Axis overextending in the winter?

Some of the Barbarossa TOAW scenarios quickly lead to stalemates like you could face in the AGN sector, with the 1941 objectives somewhat close but still far away. It seems that in the majority of the Eastern Front wargame, it's very difficult for the Axis player to come close to the historical 1941 advance.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 6:14:16 PM)

Elements of 1st Pz Grp (red) punched across the minor Irpen River into the clear to the southwest of Kiev.  Resistance is stiffening in front of Kiev and we expect a tough fight for the prize of the Ukraine.  I want to break the line along the Dnepr quickly and be able to hit Kiev from both sides of the river.  If we let the Soviets build a strong line of defense along that river it will get ugly.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARsouthturn8.jpg[/image]



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 6:16:01 PM)

In the far south Odessa fell after another heavy aerial bombardment.  Other than that things were relatively quiet.  I'm undecided what to do next down here so we'll see what the Soviets do in their part of the turn and then decide.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARRumaniaturn8.jpg[/image]



Balou -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 6:21:54 PM)

What's the day or week ?



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 6:29:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

What's the day or week ?


Losses through turn 8 (the week of 8/7/41)

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARtrn8groundlosses.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARtrn8sirlosses.jpg[/image]



wiking62 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 8:32:05 PM)

Hi elmo,

Any chance of a screenshot of the whole Eastern front so that we can visualise the whole campaign to date?



Balou -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 8:51:52 PM)

Looking at the Kiew map, I wonder what you plans are. You've made a nice advance to Smolensk and beyond using up two Pz-Armies, and a rather slow advance with one Pz-Army in the North. Given that, I expect a similar and slow advance thru or around Kiev. Soviet / AI resistance rapidly grows very, very strong and with just one fast combat group (1st PzArmy) it's probably a tough one to pocket Kiew.
It is very interesting to see that many more Soviet unit symbols appear were you mass your troops whereas farther south in front of 11th army the AI frontline remains a rather thin brown line. Do we know whether the AI relocates troops in between Army groups ?



pgarcia -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 9:11:13 PM)

Its interesting how the AAR is going. The stalling gives the rationale to the Hitler directive that sent Pzgroups to the north and south to help take Kiev and push towards Leningrad. This seems also to be the current view on how the campaign went.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 9:25:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hart2412

Hi elmo,

Any chance of a screenshot of the whole Eastern front so that we can visualise the whole campaign to date?



Couldn't quite get the whole map in one shot but close enough:

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/BarbarossaAARtrn9map.jpg[/image]



wiking62 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 9:33:01 PM)

Thanks elmo.

I like to review the overall strategic position now and again.

Looking forward to the rest of your AAR.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 9:43:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Looking at the Kiew map, I wonder what you plans are. You've made a nice advance to Smolensk and beyond using up two Pz-Armies, and a rather slow advance with one Pz-Army in the North. Given that, I expect a similar and slow advance thru or around Kiev. Soviet / AI resistance rapidly grows very, very strong and with just one fast combat group (1st PzArmy) it's probably a tough one to pocket Kiew.
It is very interesting to see that many more Soviet unit symbols appear were you mass your troops whereas farther south in front of 11th army the AI frontline remains a rather thin brown line. Do we know whether the AI relocates troops in between Army groups ?


The terrain just north of Kiev is an ugly sight to any tread head. My panzers are lined up to cross to the south and then swing north. 6th Army (light purple) and 17th Army (brown) will apply the pressure from the west and north.

I don't know if the AI will reassign units or not.



Balou -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 11:20:03 PM)

We just learned from one of the posts (Q&A thread) how important the Ukraine is as a resource area. I don't know how important Kiev really is apart from beeing a capital, but if the map is what it should be, than Krivoi Rog must be a main resource center. Is there yet some objective for 1st PzArmy in the longer run ?



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/23/2010 11:42:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

We just learned from one of the posts (Q&A thread) how important the Ukraine is as a resource area. I don't know how important Kiev really is apart from beeing a capital, but if the map is what it should be, than Krivoi Rog must be a main resource center. Is there yet some objective for 1st PzArmy in the longer run ?


Not exactly sure what you are asking. Here is a map highlighting the factories in the Ukraine area. Maybe that will help with planning strategy beyond Kiev.

[image]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/Andru_Hammerskjold/factories.jpg[/image]



GMeyer -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/24/2010 12:00:36 AM)

Anybody have any idea when this beauty will be released?



Balou -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/24/2010 12:02:54 AM)

For the next days 1st PzArmy will obviously participate in Operation Kiev. But from then onwards ? Swing north-east, in case AGC needs some support. Or will you keep your Panzers "in the south" ?



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/24/2010 12:24:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GMeyer

Anybody have any idea when this beauty will be released?


Tentative time frame is late Q2, subject to change of course.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/24/2010 12:29:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

For the next days 1st PzArmy will obviously participate in Operation Kiev. But from then onwards ? Swing north-east, in case AGC needs some support. Or will you keep your Panzers "in the south" ?


1st Pz Grp will stay with AGS after Kiev. Where they go is hard to say but I heard Dnepropetrovsk is nice in the Fall. [;)] Depends on the weather to some degree. Generally we want to be hunkered down before the blizzards hit because Ivan will be going over on the offensive when that happens, and we won't be getting any winter weather clothing this year.



elmo3 -> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR (2/24/2010 3:35:23 PM)

We got about a foot of snow overnight and it's still snowing, so General Winter will delay my next move.  And we are supposed to get even more snow starting tomorrow some time.  [8|]



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