POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (Full Version)

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WITPPL -> POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/16/2010 10:59:09 PM)

by US as a part of global US master plan to eliminate British Empire as a global power?
(In this part of a plan IJN had to turn vs Brits in Pacific and Inda and had to lose the war with US thus replacing British influence with US power in a matter of few years)

Yes or No?

[:D]

Question nr 2

Do You think that US strategy in the Pacific was heavy influenced by grand politics made by DC or not?

Yes or No.

[;)]



tocaff -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/16/2010 11:23:02 PM)

#1  No, FDR backed Japan into a corner that he knew would cause a war to ensue.  Since Japan, Germany and Italy were bound together by treaty he anticipated that this war would enable the US to weigh in against Germany and Italy.  FDR had to contend with the isolationism in the US and knew that the Japanese when faced with being cut off from oil, scrap metal, etc. or getting out of China would react in the only way that their culture allowed, war.

#2 No, not to any great extent as Douglas and Chester had the major say in how the Pac War was prosecuted.

Then again I'm 1/2 a brain cell short of none so what do I know?



AW1Steve -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/16/2010 11:52:00 PM)

No.. and no (some influence , but primarily directed by local commanders).



khyberbill -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 12:04:04 AM)

i think you are giving politicians in the US way too much credit. do you think they bribed japan to invade china and korea?



witpqs -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 12:20:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

i think you are giving politicians in the US way too much credit. do you think they bribed japan to invade china and korea?


The nature of many conspiracy-type theories is that any actions on your part (with which someone might disagree) have incredibly indirect although iron-clad cause and effect relationships to dastardly deeds done by others. I watched a documentary about the making of the movie Patton. In one segment (only one thank goodness) Oliver Stone asserted that the movie Patton was responsible for the Khmer Rouge slaughter of 2 million Cambodians... [&:]



Chickenboy -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 12:50:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WITPPL

by US as a part of global US master plan to eliminate British Empire as a global power?
(In this part of a plan IJN had to turn vs Brits in Pacific and Inda and had to lose the war with US thus replacing British influence with US power in a matter of few years)

Yes or No?

[:D]

Question nr 2

Do You think that US strategy in the Pacific was heavy influenced by grand politics made by DC or not?

Yes or No.

[;)]

#1: No.

#2: Yes. War is a continuation of politics by other means.



oldman45 -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 1:24:56 AM)

1) As much as I dislike FDR I have to admit that he smart enough to know that the only was to get the US out of the slump was to get it on a war footing. The US was not going to get into a war with Europe so that left Japan. It didn't take rocket science to figure out they needed resourses and they got a lion share from us so cut that off and Japan would have to do something.

2) The pacific war was not the primary theater till Europe was settled and the Force commanders ran things with oversight from Washington.



topeverest -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 1:42:29 AM)

I go with no and no. Pretty clean on those answers.

Question one seems way out there based on my understanding of the War. American didnt think of herself as the world's policeman or a global leader prior to the War. To the contrary, the USA wanted to stay out of world politics.

As far as 2, there are only a few ways to Japan and logistics determined the jump distances. Asia overland and Asia Coastal were not seriously considered, neither was the Northern route nor indonesia strategies considered. The only other strategies were through the Central pacific and New Guinea through to Philippiines. The Americans did both. This was a military decision on how to prosecute the War effectively and consistant with the American advantages. Now in the ETO, I think you have something. Politics was a big player in the ultimate path of the War.



Big B -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 2:29:30 AM)

I would say Yes & Yes.

My view of the real result of the titanic struggle of WWII is heretical, but
I believe the long course of history bears it out..

The Western Allies made a lot of bad choices during WWII - if Victory is to
be judged by their war aims and the pre-war status quo.
Great Britain went to war ostensibly to safeguard her empire (Churchill's
foremost desire) - as there was assumed to be no way to live with a powerful
Germany. - Great Britain lost her empire as a direct result of WWII.
France was of the same mind as Great Britain, and suffered the same fate as
Britain as a direct result of WWII.
Britain and France together declared war on Germany (really kicking off
WWII) supposedly safeguard the independence, liberty, and security of
Poland...the end result was that Poland (and all of Eastern Europe as well
as Yugoslavia) was left to suffer under the tyranny of Communism after
WWII....for 50 years.
The United States put itself directly in the path of war - for the benefit
of China's liberty (so the history books say, but really to go to war with
Germany) the end result of which is that China also became communist (to
this day, and tens of millions of Chinese died under Mao's communism) - and
now also underwrites the US Government's spending.
As for the Jews and other victims of Nazi aggression, I would guess they
would have been much better off to emigrate to unoccupied countries in
Western Europe - then to be stuck in Nazi occupied Europe with nowhere to
go.
So in my view, some 100 million people died during the second world war, so
that Great Britain, and France could loose their empires, and the United
States could play world super power for a while (but at the cost of
ultimately loosing it's economy and eventually its position in the world),
and Eastern Europe could be made safe for Soviet Communism.

Not everything turns out as politicians plan, and perhaps most of those 100
million dead would have been better served by allowing Germany and Poland to
work out the Polish Corridor to Prussia un-influenced by other nations.
Certainly the Western Allied Victors of WWII would have ultimately been
better off by making peace early - than the Armageddon that they prosecuted
on their civilization.



Menser -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 2:33:16 AM)

#1 Definately no, Unless you think the Americans paid Kwantung Army Colonel Itagaki to create the "Mukden Incident" and actively encouraged the Kwangtung army to commit atrocities to influence world opinion against themselves.

#2 I think only a small ammount of Influence by "DC", most of the conduct and direction was made by local commanders ("I shall return"), and logistic constraints. I think the only direct Political move in the coduct of the Pacific war was the Doolitle Raid. I think Top is correct as most of "DC" was concerned with the Euro Theater and that's where the big political games were being played. A really good series to watch on that score is Warlords. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSPbKVCaMUk



Mike Scholl -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 4:07:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WITPPL

by US as a part of global US master plan to eliminate British Empire as a global power?
(In this part of a plan IJN had to turn vs Brits in Pacific and Inda and had to lose the war with US thus replacing British influence with US power in a matter of few years)

Yes or No? Rediculous? American politicians could screw up a "wet dream". To give them credit for any "master plan" is like giving Courtney Love credit for the theory of relativity.

[:D]

Question nr 2

Do You think that US strategy in the Pacific was heavy influenced by grand politics made by DC or not?

Yes or No. No.

[;)]




John Lansford -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 1:20:09 PM)

No and No

#1: Roosevelt imposed embargoes on Japan to try and get them to change their behavior, not push them into a war.  He didn't want to fight with Japan, he wanted to get involved in the European war vs Germany.

#2: The theater commanders (Nimitz and MacArthur) had more say on what the strategy was in the Pacific than King or Marshall did, although the DC men did limit their strategy by not sending the bulk of men/equipment/ships to the European theater. 



bklooste -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 1:37:06 PM)

1. no
2. no



xj900uk -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 1:54:25 PM)

No,  the Japanese saw the opportunity to take out hte US pacific fleet (convinced that a war with the US was inevitable at some future point) and took it



Q-Ball -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 1:56:14 PM)

1. YES. But not by the Western Allies; Japan was manipulated into the war by war factions within the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy. But in particular it was extremists within the Imperial Japanese Army that set the country on a course for war, that peace advocates like Prince Kanoye could not, in the end, hold off.




USSAmerica -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 2:05:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

i think you are giving politicians in the US way too much credit. do you think they bribed japan to invade china and korea?


The nature of many conspiracy-type theories is that any actions on your part (with which someone might disagree) have incredibly indirect although iron-clad cause and effect relationships to dastardly deeds done by others. I watched a documentary about the making of the movie Patton. In one segment (only one thank goodness) Oliver Stone asserted that the movie Patton was responsible for the Khmer Rouge slaughter of 2 million Cambodians... [&:]


Oliver Stone is a freak. [8|]



dorjun driver -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 2:14:39 PM)

I don't know. WWCS?



Erik Rutins -> RE: POOL: Was Japan manipulated into a WAR (2/17/2010 2:23:22 PM)

This topic has come up before and it never ends well and always gets people agitated, so locking this up based on past experience.



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