Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (Full Version)

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billyjj -> Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/18/2010 8:01:48 AM)

1939 scenario as Germany. Even if I put my whole Navy in the North Sea and use 10 landing craft, along with my entire Air force naval bombing, no luck. I lose everything, the more I put into the fight the more costly it becomes. Am I missing something?

Some tips for new players,
1 ) when you get Rommel in DAK create a convoy for him, took me forever to get to tobruk before I figured out why he was so slow.
2 ) try not to declare war on turkey or your entire allies will go running down to fight and there will be a massive traffic jam they will be suck at instambul forever.

One thing I did notice is that if you recon England and kill all its fighters as soon as possible, they will never build them back and you will have free skys for a few strategic bombers. They wont be able to resupply Africa and Rommel will be in Cairo in no time. Everything went fine until 1943 when I decided to finally launch barbarrossa after building up what I felt was a massive army, not even close the russians completely slaughtered me and within 2 months there was no hope and I had to quit.
I started my atomic bomb somewhere in 1941 and it says 72 months, I would get the bomb until 1947... I guess that is fair, next time I should start it sooner I guess.

Very nice game here, just enough complexity to still be fun... anyone got any advice for me for norway, or any idea of just HOW MANY tanks I am going to need for fighting russia. Thanks.



htuna -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/18/2010 12:03:34 PM)

I'm on my first game as well still... I didn't invade Norway... Nor Russia.. did Invade and take England... North Africa, I am gone (didn't realize the supply issue until it was too late)..

Russia invaded me in 42... I was making progress, doing ok... Then stupid Italy talks Hungary into joining the war!!!.. All of a sudden, I've got a Russian horde streaming into Hungary, and now I have a new Border to create/protect... I'm holding my own right now.. but less progress than before moving forward!

I agree this is a great game!!!



Texashorns -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/18/2010 1:13:57 PM)

I have complained (commented?) several times about Germany not being able to take Norway. Not sure if I've ever heard anyone say they have done it. The problem is you are forced to invade from the North Sea. If they would change the eastern part of Noway's coast to bordering the Baltic, then germany could get a beach head in southern Norway. Until it is fixed I ignore Norway now.

As for Russia I have not really ever had a problem with them. In my latest game they did attack me prematurely. It caught me a little off guard, but eventually I was able to turn the tide against them. They are definetly tougher since the latest patch. I have found that I need a large force of Italians in southern Russia to help Germany out. Taking North Africa helps to secure Italy and allow for large numbers of Italian formations to help out in Russia.

I have never had Turkey involved in any of my games.



Texashorns -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/18/2010 1:16:48 PM)

Also I forgot to mention that taking human control of Finland when they are at war with Russia also helps. Whether they join the axis or not. You can take Murmansk and Lenningrad with the Finns, which really helps the axis war against Russia.



billyjj -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/18/2010 8:11:01 PM)

I think I'm going to give the 1940 scenario a play, I don't really know how they are going to fix it. If they make it too easy then that is not good either, but if 10 landing transports is the max in the game than I basically failed a operation overlord scale invasion on an undefended Norway coastline. The problem is constant interception by the other fleets, if they have fleets in the Baltic I can't imagine it being any easier from that angle.

If anyone wants to try it, after you get greece, romania, bulgaria, save your game, declare war on Turkey and end a few turns and watch what kind of chaos breaks out... then you can load your game again and you will see why you should never do that.



Indy68 -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/18/2010 10:08:50 PM)

Istanbul is not too bad. Before declaring war on Turkey you must have two paratroop divisions ready to land just behind Istanbul in order to siege Eastern Istanbul. Western istanbul is weakly garrisoned and should be taken to create the siege. All this must be done in the very first turn when you declare the war. This way there won't be any traffic jams.



Texashorns -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/18/2010 10:31:42 PM)

If Germany controls Denmark then British navy can't enter the Baltic. Invasion of Norway is presumably pre-war with Russia. So only navy that can intercept is Norway's and I don't think they would have the strength to successfully intercept. I strongly believe changing the southeastern coast of Norway to bordering the Baltic would fix this problem.



Maximeba -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/19/2010 12:28:38 AM)

Someone has made a new sea map that puts Oslo in the Baltic. Check under mods. Dave and I downloaded the maps and use it now in our game. Sometimes the maps hang the game up when loading your scenario. If this happens just start a new game and then back out; your scenario will then start.
As far as the British fleet intercepting the German navy, well that actually happened in Narvik. Even today the German destroyers are still sticking out of the water in the Port of Narvik. So I don't believe there really is a problem with the British navy being active against the German navy in the North Sea. The problem with Norway has always been Oslo. Using the above mentioned sea maps does alleviate some of the problems of trying to take Norway. The only other problem is that you have to conquer both Narvik and Oslo to conquer Norway. In most of our games, the British own Narvik, while the Germans own Oslo. A slick trick in taking Norway is to wait for the British navy to be active in the Med Sea against the Italians. In our current game Dave snuck in and took Norway, while I was playing around with the Italians in Africa.



billyjj -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/19/2010 7:43:42 AM)

I was just thinking it would be a lot less costly to just get a couple dozen paratroopers and drop in from Denmark build a harbor and just slug it out with the troops near Oslo using air cover from bombers, maybe I can try that. Better than spending 500 on landing equipment and losing your entire navy.



Texashorns -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/19/2010 12:49:51 PM)

Billyj I have dropped airborne troops in Norway. The problem is the limited range of the airborne and the limited time with the mulberry's. Norway defends Oslo decently well. I have dropped airborne and taken the city southwest of Oslo on the coast. It is a non-port city though. So supply is rough. Without a port to send follow-up ground forces to the weak paratroopers get ground up.



Maximeba -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/19/2010 5:49:12 PM)

The best way I found out on taking Oslo is to use your fleet to shore bombard, then tactical bomb the unit in Oslo to 0 and then para drop into the empty hex.



freeboy -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/19/2010 8:12:13 PM)

the entire way the ai handles interception at sea is so borked its not funny
This and a few other issues are what is stopping this game from truly shining imo



billyjj -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/20/2010 1:25:18 AM)

Thanks for all the replies...  I think freeboy is right, the interceptions are the issue.. if you make the harbors better than what is stopping me from paradropping into london an building a harbor then swarming in transports. Everything is fine even the sea zones.. I know the Germans took some losses in Norway and I am glad that the game is not easy. But it shouldn't be impossible.



freeboy -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/20/2010 5:04:23 PM)

or try invading in the med.. this is seriously an overstatemnt of sea power.. air power and sea power should be much more LEATHAL and vulnerable.. not like land at all.. takes too much damage and give too little punishment...
fragile sea nd air unit that in turn are leathal would infinately help this, and kill off some pesky bugs!!!



Maximeba -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/21/2010 3:26:35 AM)

quote:

Thanks for all the replies... I think freeboy is right, the interceptions are the issue.. if you make the harbors better than what is stopping me from paradropping into london an building a harbor then swarming in transports. Everything is fine even the sea zones.. I know the Germans took some losses in Norway and I am glad that the game is not easy. But it shouldn't be impossible.

When you say building a harbor due you mean a mulberry? If so, that unit is only good for supply, you can't use it as a port and transport ground units. By the way, one hex of London is a port. In a previous game I left a level one ground unit in that hex. The German player bombed the unit out of existence, then air dropped into London. He then transported infantry and armor units thru the port of London. I now leave in that hex the highest level ground unit with the best commander until Operation Sealion.

Also I would like to point out that Norway was not a slam dunk for the Germans, especially Narvik. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the British might have been able to control Narvik for the duration of the war. I believe it was a German mountain division at Narvik and they spent the winter mostly out so supply. Hitler wanted to retreat that division through Sweden and bring it back home thinking all was lost. It was his generals who talked him out of it…and the rest is history.



billyjj -> RE: Norway invasion nightmare / thoughts on first game (2/21/2010 10:15:45 PM)

Yea.. I mean the port of london, once you get that you can transport all kinds of armor and equipment.



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