How is AI, thinking of buying. (Full Version)

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Grim.Reaper -> How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/20/2010 11:14:31 PM)

Thinking of buying the civil war version, but have seen various posts about the AI not being that good. I would only play against the AI, so is it still worth it? I'm not an expert at wargames, but don't want the AI to be completely dumb either.



rhondabrwn -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/21/2010 2:08:27 AM)

The AI is not that good, but it isn't completely stupid either. You will usually win, but it's still fun. I played many games of Gettysburg against the AI and often managed to completely destroy the opposing army, down to the last regiment (yea, I was sadistic that way). It was an opponent, however :)

Actually, AI in the HPS Civil War Campaign series is completely ineffective in their campaign games. To my dismay, that AI can't even maintain command control. Units seem to move randomly and do not even try to maintain contact with other units in their Brigade. The Matrix/Talonsoft games manage to at least do that! HPS has added some specific scenarios in the latest games that are programmed to give you a tough battle against the AI. I haven't tried them as they are small scenarios and I prefer HUGE campaign games personally.

However, in both Matrix and HPS games, I usually just play myself using the Play be Email option. You can finish a turn and go away for awhile and then when you restart to play the opposing side, you have forgotten the precise dispositions of the side you played previously.

And then, there is actually play by email with a live opponent, which is quite simple and very rewarding. Don't be afraid of that option.

These are classic games and you can't beat the play value of getting them all packaged together from Matrix.



Grim.Reaper -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/21/2010 2:56:05 AM)

Thanks for the response and now you have me sitting on the fence to buy it:) I remember vaguely remember playing the Gettysburg version when it first came out in the 90's and I also had tremendous success playing as the Union. Like you, I pretty much wiped them entirely out. It has been so long since I played it, I couldn't remember if the AI just stunk or whether I was a masterful commander:)

I should have picked this up during the holiday sale, would have been an easier decision:)



berto -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/21/2010 4:37:28 AM)

If the AI isn't completely dumb, it's the nearest thing to it.

I prefer to play hot-seat solitaire. (I don't do PBEM.) I am developing an elaborate set of house rules designed to add just enough chance and surprise and spice to give me an entertaining game (not to mention "realistic" and "plausible"). Maybe I'll post them here some day.

But one thing's for sure: Don't buy these games for the AI. [sm=vomit-smiley-020.gif]



wiz_of_oz2006 -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/21/2010 6:00:46 AM)

The BG series does have a lot to offer but I can't offer much positive to say about the AI. You will be quickly bored after beating up on the AI after a few games, so you should probably save your money. I love the BG series but I play PBEM and a real live opponent is the best way to enjoy these games.



berto -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/21/2010 1:41:16 PM)

In everything, there are tradeoffs. PBEM is no exception. It is debatable whether "PBEM and a real live opponent is the best way to enjoy these games." PBEM has its faults, too. Different strokes for different folks.

In any case, one of BGS' (and HPS') many strengths is it provides so many different ways to play:


  • human vs. AI
  • commander control (AI "assisted" human vs. AI)
  • PBEM
  • hot-seat (human vs. other human)
  • hot-seat solitaire


And still others (e.g., a mix of the above). There is nothing to stop you from developing your own house rules and overlays/game additions to mitigate almost any game shortcoming, AI and otherwise.

In the end, it's the flexibility and adaptability that, for me, redeem these games.



Grim.Reaper -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/21/2010 1:41:23 PM)

Too bad about the AI, I was going to pick this up today, but doesn't seem like it would be worth it. Playing PBEM/or against an opponent is just not my thing:(



rich12545 -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/21/2010 3:52:27 PM)

I'm with you and never play multi. But the ai in ANY wargame isn't that good. None are a match for a human that learns all the ins and outs of a game to become an expert. That's why I never do. It's more fun that way. Battleground falls into that category.



Treefrog -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (2/26/2010 5:44:09 PM)

rhondabrwn,

You may want to speak to a professional about this "split" persona thing.

Clever idea though. Here is something for you to look forward to: at my age I don't have to go to the trouble of doing pbem, etc., all I have to do is leave the room and thing of any one other thing and when I return to the computer it is like a brand, new world that I have no recollection of. rofl.



erichswafford -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (3/11/2010 6:35:44 PM)

I usually just play both sides and use my imagination to recreate the fog of war.  It's not that hard.  Also, I'm never playing a wargame to "win".  The point (for me) is to gain an understanding of an event through an exploration of alternative decisions which could have been made by both sides.

So, for instance, I've played Waterloo a million times and it's quite easy to replicate Wellington:  You just "sit on your ass" (to paraphrase Napoleon) and, as the French, try to knock him off it.  I will sometimes play a more active Wellington, which taught me a valuable lesson:  He did the right thing.  The Anglo-allied forces are way too shaky to get into a game of maneuver with the Armee du Nord. 

I also enjoy seeing if I can almost exactly replicate the historical battle by intentionally making the same decisions that actually occurred.  That helps reassure me (or not) of the accuracy of the simulation.  All these play modes are great fun to me!



Treefrog -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (3/11/2010 7:14:47 PM)

Kondor,
Sweet ride. Yours?



NefariousKoel -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (5/6/2010 7:51:30 PM)

One thing that bothered me about the AI (in Napoleon's anyway) is that it would place much of it's infantry into squares, while on the attack, if I had cavalry anywhere in the vicinity. Instead of pressing my outnumbered infantry lines, they turtled up and sat there while I fired away at them. [:(]

This is not the only game system with that issue, however. Another AI issue that is pretty much universally bad throughout wargames is amphibious invasions. AIs are never that great, without handicap bonuses, so no surprise there.

However, the AI doesn't always just lie down and die for you, either. [;)]



simovitch -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (5/6/2010 10:21:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

One thing that bothered me about the AI (in Napoleon's anyway) is that it would place much of it's infantry into squares, while on the attack, if I had cavalry anywhere in the vicinity. Instead of pressing my outnumbered infantry lines, they turtled up and sat there while I fired away at them. [:(]

Very very little known fact but you can change many of the AI charactoristics by adjusting the settings in the file called "main.ai" that resides in each of the module folders.

For Napoleon we have, respectfully:

_inf_fire = 2;
_art_fire = 4;
_hot_max = 16;
_melee_diff = 2;
_fear = 300;
_safety = 5;
_hot_trigger = 8;
_min_attack = 80;
_supply_dist = 5;
_cav_health = 50;
_inf_health = 40;
_art_health = 50;
_breast [0] = 10;
_breast [1] = 10;
_goto_square = 6;
_init_charge = 4;
_art_range = 6;
_cav_threat = 4;
_move_column [0] = _move_column [1] = 12;
_move_line [0] = _move_line [1] = 12;

So if you change the value of line 15 (goto square) from 6 to say, 4, I'm guessing they will not go to square as often.[;)]



NefariousKoel -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (5/6/2010 11:09:35 PM)

Thanks simovitch!

So the value doesn't have to do with range?  Lower is a lower chance or threshold then?

[8D]



simovitch -> RE: How is AI, thinking of buying. (5/7/2010 1:29:53 AM)

Not sure really, well I believe it is range in hexes actually, as are most of the values. The funding ran out on this and the ACW project last year (total funds allocated by Matrix = $0[:D]) so I only have so much info to go on. I'll help out where I can.



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